[FM24] Tulach Bòide [Scotland Tier 13]

[Thebaker]

Well done on promotion, looks like a tough season ahead. The players who left on frees, were they out of contract? 

Am i wrong to think Spartans were in L2 at the start of the save?

[TIR669]

Honestly I'm not too surprised at the League Cup performances against stronger sides. The attackers you lost had 9-10 finishing. I know it's L2 and below, but their technical and physical attributes really weren't out of this world good to leave you crying after losing them. Hope you'll be able to stay in L2, pls give a screenshot of Donald 31h, I saw he was leading the scorers list.

 

Were all the youth departures on amateur contracts or? I see you got 12k for McGrandies, how come that fee was accepted in the first place? Are you even considering accepting anything for Dick?

 

Curious can you give a screenshot of your oldest youth academy player in the squad...are they 23-24+ or still younger, I see one 29x generation player as oldest? That aspect of FM was always bothering me, fact that experience is not a factor in the game engine is questionable at best, and you can easily plug in a golden generation of 16 year olds and quality will see them through. In reality, physical difference alone would blow them off the pitch, let alone stuff like jitters, situational experience and a lack of leadership.

 

What's your average attendance compared to L2 sides now, are you expecting any usable income from ticket sales?

[Rikulec]

Fantastic job getting to League Two, congratulations! It's probably gonna be tough to stay up, but you pretty much just need to win the relegation playoff if it comes to that, right?

[Jimbokav1971]

Alloa. Sep 2035.

Although we don't have any rivalries listed, Alloa is a HUGE game for us because we're right on their doorstep, less than 3 miles away as the crow flies. 

 

Just to put things into perspective, these are all the players at the club who were not born in Alloa. 

That means that every single Scottish player at the club was born in Alloa. Every single one without fail. There are none born in Tullibody, I assume because to be born in Tullibody is to be born in Alloa. In real life Alloa has population of 14,440 (as of 2020), and Tullibody down at 8,490, so there isn't a huge difference between the 2. Despite that we don't have a single player born in Tullibody, (and this is interesting from the point of view of our Youth Intakes), and every single Scottish player at the club, (55 players), were born in Alloa. That makes more sense why the CA of our intakes have been significantly poorer than I expected with our facilities as they are. 

I was going to post this section as a small part of the August update, but it's snowballed a bit and I think I'll make it a separate post now. 

In terms of the low CA of players coming through, and all of the Scottish born players being born in Alloa there are a few things to consider. It would be interesting to hear what @Makoto Nakamurathinks because I know he has to track place of birth for his "Highlander" only policy. What is it about the club now that means that we're not bringing in Scottish players from anywhere else, (and if we can work it out then this might help him)? 

Let's look at our Facilities to start with and see if we can rule anything out. 

Now for a start, that's not where we used to play. 

We're the only club that plays here. 

We used to play at the Tullibody Community centre, (or something like that). It says this stadium was built in 2035, (this year), but I thought we were building seats at our own ground rather than renting somewhere else. Maybe I didn't read the message properly. 

Ok, this is how things were on 1st May 2035. And THAT is exactly what I was looking for. For this stadium the "City" is classed as Alloa, so everyone born in Tullibody is classed as being from Alloa. Compare that to the new stadium where the "City" is called Kincardine, despite the population being only 11,389, (as of 2016), so between Tullibody & Alloa in terms of size. I remember when I did my Tier 10 England save a couple of years ago Irchester was listed as the birth place of my players despite the population of Irchester only being about 6k(ish) I think. 

I've holidayed on from 1st May and got this message on 23rd May. In this "holiday save" we lost on pens to Kelty Harts so would have been staying in the Lowland League so makes sense. 

Let's go back to the real save on 1st June and see what we can see. 

And here it is. I missed this message 1st time around. The only real problem here is that I want to relocate us back to Tullibody. How do I do that? 

Apologies for going off on a tangent. How do we get back to the point in question being that 100% of our Scottish players that have come through the intake have been born in Alloa. Are the next and subsequent intakes all going to be born in Kincardine? 

Our Youth Recruitment has been maxed out for a while now, but while the PA of our players is obviously good enough to get us here, (and I have no issues with the PA of players), I have had an issue with the CA of players and I now think that this is related to the fact that they are all coming from Alloa, (soon to be Kincardine). It's unlikely to be impacted by Training Facilities or Youth Facilities, (although that will have a small impact), but I wonder how much having absolutely no scouting range will impact our Youth Intakes. Usually in a Youth Only save I start off with no scouting range but soon develop it really just to be able to keep track of our ex players, (or so that we can re-sign ex players). There has been no need for that here so I have just left it as is and all we have is 1 single scout, (for scouting next opposition). We don't even have a Chief Scout. 

Of all the things that could be playing a part, scouting seems the most likely even though I wouldn't have initially said that scouting was too influential in a Youth Intake, (although it is something I have thought about and mentioned before). 

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I've saved already today, (it's 1st of the month), and I'm going to holiday through to the next intake and this is what we get. 

Holiday experiment Intake 1 with no scouting range. (I suspect that this is going to look much like all my other recent intakes with a decent amount of PA but not much CA. I also think that the players will all be born in Kincardine or Alloa, (more likely Alloa in my opinion which will hopefully prove how slow the impact of facility changes happen), and this will be interesting from a perspective of how quickly these things have an impact when they change. I know we all "think" they have a bit of a slow-burn effect, but the truth is we don't know and this might help clarify that. In an ideal World I think I would like to see most players still born in Alloa, (as per the old Training Facilities), and a maximum of a couple born in Kincardine. I honestly don't know what's going to happen here. 

There is 1 single Scottish player who was not born in Alloa. 

And then I'm going to go back to the 1st September 2035 save and I'm going to increase our scouting range to Scotland and I'm going to see what we get. 

Holiday experiment 2 with Scotland scouting range. This isn't much different to the intake with no scouting range and again all the Scottish players are born in Alloa. Not sure we have learned anything from this. 

I wonder what the barrier is then that's stopping us from recruiting youngsters from further afield? Reputation? 

This is how the Rep for League 1 and League 2 clubs looks like right now. 

It wasn't too long ago that we only had a "Local" reputation and there are clubs with "Obscure" reputations in WoS 2nd Div (Tier 8), and that wasn't a million years ago either. Remember, I think the game uses the Rep value for Youth Intake not now for this intake, (or in December just gone when we get the preview). I think it's calculated based on what the Rep would have been at the club when the player joined the Academy. 

For example, the best player in that 2nd Holiday intake was this bloke, and although he's just come through the Youth Intake in Mar 2036, he actually joined the club in Dec 2032. Our intake is significantly better now than it was 4 years ago and this increase in Rep will keep having an impact on our intake over the coming seasons. 

Inverurie Locos. They are the lowest ranked League 1 or League 2 club other than us, so let's look at where players were born who have come through their intakes recently. I think we can say that their intakes in terms of location at least, are pretty similar to ours. 

2035. Inverurie x4.
2034. Inverurie x3.
2033. Inverurie x2.
2032. Inverurie x2 South Africa x1.
2031. Ireland x 1, N.Ireland x1.
2030. Inverurie x3, Ireland x1.
2029. Inverurie x4 

Stenhousemuir. I'm not going ton do every club, but these are Pro and in League 2 so let's have a look at them. There were strangely no Youth signings at all in this save but it made sense when I checked their facilities. 

Johnstone Burgh. They are Semi-Pro in League 2. 

2035. 3x Johnstone, 1x N.ireland. 
2034. 2x Johnstone, 1x Paisley. (Almost the same place). 
2033. 3x Johnstone, 1x Ireland.
2032. 4x Johnstone. 
2031. 2x Johnstone. 
2030. 3x Johnstone, 1x Paisley. (Almost the same place). 
2029. 2x Johnstone, 1x Paisley. (Almost the same place). 

Dumbarton. They are Semi-Pro but haven't been out of League1/League2 during the save. 

Peterhead. They are Semi-Pro but haven't been out of League1/League2 during the save. 

Alloa Athletic. They are a Pro club and right on our doorstep and have been in League1/League2 for the whole of the save. 

2035. 2x Alloa, 1x Australia, 1x Peru. 
2034. 2x Alloa, 1x Bishopbriggs. (About 40 miles away). 
2033. 2x Alloa, 1x Zimbabwe.
2032. 2x Alloa, 1x Kyleakin (Up near Skye about 200 miles away).
2031. 2x Alloa. 
2030. 2x Alloa.
2029. 1x Alloa, 1 x Ireland. 

I'm going to miss out Semi-Pro clubs now and jump to the Pro clubs. 

Forfar Athletic. They are a Pro club who started in league 2 but spent most of the save in the Highland League before getting promoted back to league 2 and then again to League 1. 

2035. 2x Forfar. 
2034. 2x Forfar. 
2033. 4x Forfar.
2032. 3x Forfar.
2031. 1x Forfar, 1x Ireland. 
2030. 1x Bonnyrigg, 1x Ireland. (About 50 miles away to the SouthEast of Edinburgh).

Brechin City. They started the save in the Highland League and spent most of the save there before rising to League2 and then League1. 

Partick Thistle. They've spent most of the save in the Championship, so their rep should have been higher and maybe this will have allowed them to attract youth players from further afield? They are based in pretty central in Glasgow. 

2035. 1x Wishaw, 1x Ireland. (About 20 miles away in SouthEast suburbs of Glasgow).
2034. 4x Glasgow. 
2033. 2x Glasgow. 
2032. 3x Glasgow, 1x Bulgaria. 
2031. 4x Glasgow. 
2030. 1x Glasgow, 1x England, 1x Ireland. 
2029. 3x Glasgow, 1x N.Ireland. 

Clyde FC. They have spent most of the save bouncing between League1 and League2, but have spent the last few seasons in the Championship. They are based in Hamilton, (and use their Ground & Facilities. Hamilton is a sort of suburb of Glasgow, but where as Hamilton players come from Hamilton, Clyde players seem to come from Glasgow.

2035. 2x Glasgow. 
2034. 2x Glasgow.
2033. 4x Glasgow.
2032. 4x Glasgow. 
2031. 3x Glasgow.
2030. 1x Glasgow, 1x N.Ireland. 
209. Glasgow x2, Portugal. 

Hamilton Academical FC. They are only Semi-Pro and now in League1 after spending most of the save in the Championship. I wasn't going to include them but have made an exception because they let Clyde use their ground, and also because they have quite good Youth Facilities. (10.12.15.15.) It's important to note that although Clyde share their Ground, they don't seem to share their Facilities. 

2035. Hamilton x3, 1x Sweden. 
2034. Hamilton x2.
2033. Hamilton x3, England x1.
2032. East Kilbride x2, Aberdeen x1. (East Kilbride is very local. About 5 miles away). Aberdeen is 150 miles away.
2031. 2x Hamilton, 2x East Kilbride. 
2030. 3x Hamilton, 1x Motherwell. (Motherwell is very local too. About 3 miles away).
2029. 2x Hamilton, 1x Coatbridge. (Coatbridge is local too. About 7 miles away).

Queen of the South. Pro club who started in League1 and progressed to the Premiership, but spent most of the save in the Championship before dropping down to League1 again. 

2035. 4x Dumfries. 
2034. 1x Dumfries, 1x Ireland. 
2033. 1x Dumfries, ix Ireland. 
2032. 4x Dumfries.
2031. 2x Dumfries.
2030. 2x Dumfries.
2029. 1x Dumfries, 1x Wishaw, 1x Cupar 1x Zambia. (Wishaw is SouthEast Glasgow 60 miles away and Cupar is South of Dundee 130 miles away.

Arbroath. I'm not sure there is too much "joined-up thinking" going on at this club. They don't have a Youth Academy, but do have a Youth Stadium. 

Ayr Utd. 

19x Ayr, 1z Austria. 

Dundee. Now this is interesting. They are the 1st club who have had more players produced away from their local area, and even if we ignore the FGN players, there are still 5x non-local Scots. 

8x Dundee, 1x Leven 1x Montrose, 1x Glenrothes 1x Brechin, 1x Methill, 1x Livingston, 1x Austria 1x Slovenia, 1x N,Ireland, 1x England.

St Mirren. They are based in Paisley, (West-Glasgow). 

Newtown Mearns x13, Cowdenbeath, Paisley x6, Aberdeen Ayr, Dumfries, Greenock, Johnstone, Renfrew x2, Stirling Germany, Czech, Ireland, N.Ireland.

Falkirk. 

5x Newton Mearns, 11x Falkirk, Troon Livingston,2x Wishaw, Glasgow, Hamilton, Stirling Grangemouth, Greenock, England, Ireland, N.Ireland, Tanzania, Canada, Poland. 

I'm getting a bit bored with this now, but I think I've shown that there is a general trend that shows location of Youth Intake places of birth being influenced by reputation. It's harder to say what else is influencing it. 

[Jimbokav1971]

6 hours ago, Thebaker said:

Well done on promotion, looks like a tough season ahead. The players who left on frees, were they out of contract? 

Am i wrong to think Spartans were in L2 at the start of the save?

Yeah, the 1st 3 left upon expiry of their contract. 

The 4th player was still on a Youth contract and I couldn't get him to sign a PT deal. I'm not sure why the compensation was so low. Maybe he just wasn't very good. I used to know how the compensation worked in England but I have no idea how it works in Scotland. 

Spartans started in League 2, but were promoted last season in real life.

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, TIR669 said:

Honestly I'm not too surprised at the League Cup performances against stronger sides. The attackers you lost had 9-10 finishing. I know it's L2 and below, but their technical and physical attributes really weren't out of this world good to leave you crying after losing them. Hope you'll be able to stay in L2, pls give a screenshot of Donald 31h, I saw he was leading the scorers list.

I'm largely ignoring the League Cup. I care about the Scottish Cup because of the money, and I obviously care about the league, but other competitions are just games to give our young players more playing experience. 

The players we lost weren't good in comparison to the level of players we're playing against, but they were VERY good in comparison to the players we will have to replace them with. We can't go and sign anyone and we haven't produced anyone who is even close to the level of the players that left. It really is a crying matter I promise you. 

I would like to think that we have enough to stay up, but considering they board want a top half finish, (decided before we lost the 4 players), I'm not sure that staying up will enough, (but I will be happy with that I think). 

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, TIR669 said:

Were all the youth departures on amateur contracts or? I see you got 12k for McGrandies, how come that fee was accepted in the first place? Are you even considering accepting anything for Dick?

The 1st 3 players that left did so on a free at the end of their contracts. I could have sold them earlier, but for no more than £5k-£10. I thought it was better to keep them for their last season and then let them leave on a free rather than cashing in on them for a pittance and losing them a year early. 

The £12k we got for McGrandles was compensation because he was on a Youth contract, (because he wouldn't sign a PT deal). I'm surprised the compensation was so low, but I don't know how it works in Scotland. 

Although we got £14k for him which is a pittance, we're also getting £500 per game for 40 games, (so another £20k), and he's already made 2 Premiership appearances so that perhaps shows how highly he's rated. 

The 15% profit might come in handy at some point because look at him now after playing a couple of Premiership games. If he goes for £5M then 15% of £5M is £750k, and that's actually a lot of money at this stage so maybe it's will turn out to be a blessing in disguise later on. Maybe Aberdeen will offer us something to sell the clause? 

The question of whether or not I'm considering selling (32e) Dick (Bal) * is a brilliant one and I'll explain why. Earlier today I ran 2 holiday experiments from Sep 2035 to Youth Intake day in Mar 2036, (one with current Scout package and the 2nd with Scotland scout package), and in both of them he was sold for something like £450k(£550k). I don't know where he went to, (I never looked), but it's obviously playing on my mind and I think I would sell him for that sort of fee just so long as I can get him back in on loan & we get a % clause too. 

That being said, we're not overdrawn and what can I spend the money on? The only real reason to sell him would be if we don't think he would sign a new contact.

He's contracted until the end of next season, but the think about my tactic is that I think he's wasted in there because what we're asking them to do is pretty basic. If I could decide where our quality would be on the pitch it would be at WB and the central striker and we would have very workmanlike players around them. He's great, but he's wasted playing for us the way we play. 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, TIR669 said:

Curious can you give a screenshot of your oldest youth academy player in the squad...are they 23-24+ or still younger, I see one 29x generation player as oldest? That aspect of FM was always bothering me, fact that experience is not a factor in the game engine is questionable at best, and you can easily plug in a golden generation of 16 year olds and quality will see them through. In reality, physical difference alone would blow them off the pitch, let alone stuff like jitters, situational experience and a lack of leadership.

As of right now we've got 10 players at the club who aren't teenagers. 

(29n) Hogarth (Bal) 6'0" is the only player left from the (29) intake, he's the oldest player at the club and still only 22. 

I certainly agree, (and I've seen it mentioned in more detail by someone else), that the ability of young players to compete against experienced pro's isn't working effectively in FM24 currently, and this can be evidenced by my progress in this save. It doesn't really matter how good they are. An XI full of teenagers shouldn't be able to compete with an XI of experienced men of men of similar ability. Playing devils advocate for a moment though, I do wonder if the issue might be magnified by the fact that we started at such a low level with an edited database. 

In the past I've actually found leadership and/or captaincy to be vital, but it's significantly less so at the moment. 

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, TIR669 said:

What's your average attendance compared to L2 sides now, are you expecting any usable income from ticket sales?

Let's have a look. We've only played 3 league games this season. 

The basic answer is that no, the number of tickets we sell and the price we sell them at means that the income is pretty negligible. 

last season we earned £163,482 from ticket sales over the course of the whole season. 

To put that into perspective, our player wages came to £147,562 and our Youth Setup costs came to £181,182. 

It's survival mode in terms of finances really. The only way we're able to progress, (and even survive), is vai prize money. When we start selling players then that will obviously help. 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Rikulec said:

Fantastic job getting to League Two, congratulations! It's probably gonna be tough to stay up, but you pretty much just need to win the relegation playoff if it comes to that, right?

Yeah I'm pretty chuffed to get here so quickly. You're right. The bottom team doesn;'t get relegated. They go into a 2 legged playoff against the winners of the promotion playoff. I would like to think we won't have to rely on that, (unbeaten in our opening 3 league games), and if we do escape via the playoff then I'm not convinced that it will be enough to satisfy the board and keep me in a job. (I'm still nervous after the Colombia debacle). 

The thing is though that we generally get stronger as the season goes on. We had very few partnerships in either 1st Team or 2nd Team at the start of this season and that seems to make such a big difference to how you play when you have the ball. It probably makes an even bigger difference to a team who dominates the ball like we do. 

[Mad Mull Jag]

With regard to the youth intake places of birth, it might be that nobody in the original DB has a POB as Tulibody and as such there it isnt there to pull through to new gens. Alloa being the biggest town nearby it uses that instead. 

2nd Theory might be that as you have no scouts (not scouting package) you can only find whats on your doorstep not further a field. 

No evidence just a couple sof hunches. 

Im doing save with Partick Thsitle about 7 seasons in, with plenty of scouts/packages/rep etc - i can do quick look up and see POBs for the least few intakes and see if there is any evidence. 

Anyway great work in getting to league 2, i think the challenge will be next season when you hit a few semi-pro teams with established fan bases and cash to buy players.

 

[Jimbokav1971]

Aug 2035. 

Season Preview. I would have been interested to see where we were predicted to finish before we lost our 4 best players. Based on how it has worked previously and how good they were, (and our board expectations), I would expect that it was 5th. Had it been higher then the board expectation might have been that we would finish in the Playoff positions, (which is 2nd-4th in this league). There is 1 auto-promotion spot and then the next 3 teams are joined by the 2nd bottom side in League One and they have a Playoff Semi and then a Playoff Final, and if the League One side wins then they don't get relegated and only 1 side gets promoted. Clear? 

AWOL. This isn't ideal for the 1st league game of the season. He's contracted until the end of the season and although we have some decent young GK's coming through, I'm worried that he might be the difference between relegation and survival. It's not a risk I'm prepared to take. There will plenty of time in the coming years to sell players on. 

Scottish League Two. (4th Tier).

League Cup. On the one hand it felt like we were getting battered in the 1st half, but on the other hand we won the xG battle and would have forced Extra Time, (if there is ET), had we scored our penalty. Certainly reasons for optimism. 

(The opposition are 3 leagues above us).

Challenge Cup Trophy.

(The opposition are in the league above us). Really happy with this result and performance, but this competition really isn't a priority. It's better than a friendly though with a sell-out of 500 tickets. 

Season Tickets. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 2 goals from 3 pens this month. 

(23) Brass (Bal) 6'2" is 5/8 from the spot at 63%. (Is no longer at the club).
(23) Ewing (Bal) 6'1" is 17/20 from the spot at 85%. (Is no longer at the club).
(25c) Christie (F.Sport) 6'1" is 46/52 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club). 
(26p) Marsh (CAN)(SCO) 5'10" is 15/17 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club).
(30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is 43/58 from the spot at 74%.
(31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is 1/1 from the spot at 100%.
(33a) Black (Fickle) 6'0" * is 2/3 from the spot at 67%.

Finances. 

[Makoto Nakamura]

@Jimbokav1971 Just had a quick peak in the editor and the reason why you're not getting regens from Tullibody is because the actual place that is Tullibody isn't in the FM Editor.

Spoiler

 

[Jimbokav1971]

3 minutes ago, Mad Mull Jag said:

With regard to the youth intake places of birth, it might be that nobody in the original DB has a POB as Tulibody and as such there it isnt there to pull through to new gens. Alloa being the biggest town nearby it uses that instead. 

2nd Theory might be that as you have no scouts (not scouting package) you can only find whats on your doorstep not further a field. 

No evidence just a couple sof hunches. 

Im doing save with Partick Thsitle about 7 seasons in, with plenty of scouts/packages/rep etc - i can do quick look up and see POBs for the least few intakes and see if there is any evidence. 

Anyway great work in getting to league 2, i think the challenge will be next season when you hit a few semi-pro teams with established fan bases and cash to buy players.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely the case with Alloa basically encompassing Tullibody as far as the game is concerned. It's not a big deal anyway. 

The holiday experiment I ran didn't seem to show too much difference when I upgraded the package to include the whole of Scotland, but it's a tiny sample size so really just offers more questions than any answers. 

I think Rep is a huge influencer though and I have done for a while now. 

Yep, this season is gonna be tough. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 minute ago, Makoto Nakamura said:

@Jimbokav1971 Just had a quick peak in the editor and the reason why you're not getting regens from Tullibody is because the actual place that is Tullibody isn't in the FM Editor.

  Hide contents

 

Thanks for that, (and that makes complete sense). 

It doesn't however explain why we are not yet getting anyone from inside Scotland but outside Alloa. Would have expected at least some by now. 

[Makoto Nakamura]

Just now, Jimbokav1971 said:

Thanks for that, (and that makes complete sense). 

It doesn't however explain why we are not yet getting anyone from inside Scotland but outside Alloa. Would have expected at least some by now. 

Kind of the opposite to the issue I had where I got anyone from the entire area of the Highlands! 

I have now started a new youth only save in Scotland though!

[Jimbokav1971]

2 minutes ago, Makoto Nakamura said:

Kind of the opposite to the issue I had where I got anyone from the entire area of the Highlands! 

I have now started a new youth only save in Scotland though!

Brilliant. I haven't caught up with your save for a few days and I was wondering at how few Highlanders you were getting. It was really strange and maybe linked to database size perhaps?

You try and go as big as possible and I try to go as small as possible so that's an obvious one to consider.

Will finish off your old thread soon and hope to see a new one soon. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jimbokav1971

[Makoto Nakamura]

1 minute ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Brilliant. I haven't caught up with your save for a few days and I was wondering at how few Highlanders you were getting. It was really strange and maybe linked to database size perhaps?

You try and go as big as possible and I try to go as small as possible so that's an obvious one to consider.

Will finish off your old thread soon and hope to see a new one soon. 

I think it was 0 Highland based players in the last two seasons and only 1 in each of the two before that! My new thread is this one:

 

[Jimbokav1971]

7 minutes ago, Makoto Nakamura said:

I think it was 0 Highland based players in the last two seasons and only 1 in each of the two before that! My new thread is this one:

 

Great. Will be right on that. 

I wish we could have a better understanding of why things happen like that. I can remember catching up on your thread a week or so ago and really being stumped not just by how few of yours were so local based, but also when you compare it to mine, (and others), who have so many. It really is strange.

[Scribe]

Interesting that so many of your players are from Alloa. In my game I'm managing Alloa and in my current squad I have just one player born in the town out of some 17 Scots that have come through my academy - Stirling (6)  and Falkirk (5) are most popular.

[Jimbokav1971]

38 minutes ago, Scribe said:

Interesting that so many of your players are from Alloa. In my game I'm managing Alloa and in my current squad I have just one player born in the town out of some 17 Scots that have come through my academy - Stirling (6)  and Falkirk (5) are most popular.

I think that makes sense though @Scribe especially if you have had some success. 

Alloa to Falkirk is approx 10 miles as the crow flies and even closer to Stirling. You could put Glasgow over all 3 and they would be covered. I mean even Edinburgh would probably cover all 3 locations if overlayed. 

I think even a small amount of success and some stability and financial development and it's not easy, but reasonable to suggest that a club like Aloa could turn Pro pretty quickly and at least get to be a regular in European competition while you plan for the next step. That phase of development would really see an advancement in the Rep, (and intake by association), and it's win/win from there on. 

How far have you progressed in your save and how have you done? 

It will be interesting to track the place of birth for my players in this respect as we move forward. It wasn't something that I had included on my Youth Intake screen, but I've added it now so that any change will really jump out at me. 

[Scribe]

I'm into 2042 and Alloa are the biggest club in the World. The reputation of the league hasn't changed much, if at all, and I think that contributes to my youth intakes being generally quite poor. Having said that, I do have one player in my first XI that came through my youth system. He was born in Glasgow.

[Jimbokav1971]

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I'm into 2042 and Alloa are the biggest club in the World. The reputation of the league hasn't changed much, if at all, and I think that contributes to my youth intakes being generally quite poor. Having said that, I do have one player in my first XI that came through my youth system. He was born in Glasgow.

Brilliant stuff. 

[Jimbokav1971]

The Missing. Sep 2035. 

I don't usually do an update for an individual match, (even a FInal), but this is a bit different and I thought it warranted it's own post. 

This competition seems to have 2 names. It's either called the Challenge Cup or the SPFL Trust Trophy, but whatever you want to call it, we've just been knocked out of it after an 11-goal thriller in front of a full house. 

The 1st reason I wanted to talk about it is that despite the abominations that are Celtic B, Rangers B, & Hearts B, (yes we will indeed be joining them with a B Team when able),  it's the closest thing we will get to European competition for a while as Cliftonville (NIR), TNS (WAL), Linfield (NIR) and Gap Connah's Quay FC (WAL) are in this competition and it sort of reminds me of a rubbish Royal League of Scandinavian fame, (now there's a blast from the Nordic past). I love stuff like this and can't wait to win it with 1st the 1st Team and then later in the save with the B Team. 

As well as it being an 11-goal thriller and featuring clubs from other Nations, I also wanted to mention that we levelled the score in injury time, against the team who are currently 4th in League 1. As if that wasn't special enough, we did it with the following players who have all become unavailable for 1 reason or another. 

GK. (30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is our 1st choice GK and was on International duty. 
DC. (35b) Hogarth (Bal) 5'9" is our 1st choice DC and missed the game though injury. 
WBL. (30l) Docherty (F.Pro) is our 1st choice left back and missed the game through injury. 
MLC. (30b) McAllister(NIR)(F.Det) * went home in the Summer and although he actually didn't play in this competition, (International duty), he has both played and scored in both the Champions League and the Europa League this season. 
MRC. (32e) Dick (Bal) * has already made his debut for Motherwell in the Premiership as a teenager. 
SLC. (31i) Kelly (F.Sport) * has already scored 3 time in League 1 for Clyde this season after leaving in the Summer.
SC. (34a) McGrandles (F.Det) * has already made not 1 but 2 Premiership appearances for Aberdeen and is currently valued at £10M+  
SC. (31h) Donald (Res) is out top goal-scorer so far this season with 7, and he missed the game through injury. 
SRC. (31j) Fullerton (Unamb) * hasn't scored in League 1 for Clyde yet, but he has 3 goals in Cups after joining in the Summer. 

We're basically 2 defenders short from having a whole 1st choice XI missing from the end of last season. That's pretty hard to cope with and we're still plugging away. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Sep 2035. 

Scottish League 2. We're no longer unbeaten in the league, but I don't care even a little bit. Beating Alloa is HUGE and taking 9 points this month is.... even more huge!  We're flying even with all the players leaving and the injuries and the International call-ups and players who are still here wanting to leave and everything but who cares!!! Really pleased with how we're going all things considered. 

Challenge Cup. 

(The Opposition are in the league above us). When we levelled it up in the 92nd min I thought we had done it, until there was another highlight... 

Records.

Internationals. 

Big bid. 

Transfers. I completely understand why El Chieftain accepted this because £475,000 is a lot of money when you're a diddy PT club with £200k in the bank and projected to lose money hand-over-fist forever, but when you sell your best player and they offer to give him back to you for free for the rest of the season..... well you say yes don't you? Don't you? 

And why would you allow me to turn down £350k + 40% profit + a friendly, only to accept £475k cash? It's madness. I mean complete and utter lunacy! 

There wasn't even an option to include a sell-on clause. It was resign or shut up. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 1 goal from 1 pen from the stand-in GK this month. 

(23) Brass (Bal) 6'2" is 5/8 from the spot at 63%. (Is no longer at the club).
(23) Ewing (Bal) 6'1" is 17/20 from the spot at 85%. (Is no longer at the club).
(25c) Christie (F.Sport) 6'1" is 46/52 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club). 
(26p) Marsh (CAN)(SCO) 5'10" is 15/17 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club).
(30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is 43/58 from the spot at 74%.
(31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is 2/2 from the spot at 100%.
(33a) Black (Fickle) 6'0" * is 2/3 from the spot at 67%.

It's soooo annoying that (31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is listed as only having scored 1 goal now. The game "forgets" that a player scores in Cup games after he goes out on loan. 

Finances. 

[phnompenhandy]

Just catching up. About your earlier query, players not born in Tullibody:

The SI database has Tullibody the club and Tullibody Civic Centre the 'stadium', but there is no Tullibody the 'city' in the database. The city is listed as Alloa. I don't know if you use daveincid's 'increased realism' pack - one file adds hundreds more "cities".

btw, what's this?

"built in 2035 before later rebuilt in 2016"???

[Jimbokav1971]

18 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

btw, what's this?

"built in 2035 before later rebuilt in 2016"???

I hadn't actually noticed it being rebuilt before it was built. 

I noticed that we had moved grounds and I didn't know why. (I mean I could guess why, but I had missed the message). Because I'm stupid, rather than going to the save after the event and seeing what had happened, I went to the save before the event and holidayed until I saw this message. This didn't actually happen. It only happened in an "alternate holiday reality". 

With regards to the Tullibody/Alloa thing, I'm fine with that. It's the more general issue of everyone being born there when we have L20 Youth Recruitment that's the problem. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Oct 2035. 

Scottish League 2. (Tier 4) Only 1 game won this month, we're still in contention with 2nd downwards. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 1 failure from the spot this month. (30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is unhappy, (wants to leave), and this is obviously having an impact on his penalty taking prowess. I'm considering selling him because we have a fair bit of potential in this position, especially so now that we've started the season well and I think there is no chance of us finishing bottom. Maybe I will try and flog him in January. 

(23) Brass (Bal) 6'2" is 5/8 from the spot at 63%. (Is no longer at the club).
(23) Ewing (Bal) 6'1" is 17/20 from the spot at 85%. (Is no longer at the club).
(25c) Christie (F.Sport) 6'1" is 46/52 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club). 
(26p) Marsh (CAN)(SCO) 5'10" is 15/17 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club).
(30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is 43/59 from the spot at 73%.
(31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is 2/2 from the spot at 100%.
(33a) Black (Fickle) 6'0" * is 2/3 from the spot at 67%. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Nov 2035. 

Scottish League 2. If anything, we played a little bit better this month, (with the exception of the Locos game), but it didn't transfer into a good points haul. Despite that, we're still 5th, just 3 points off the playoffs. 

Debuts. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 1 from 2 from the spot this month for (30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" *. He's unhappy and this is obviously affecting his penalty taking. On the plus side however, it hasn't affected his penalty-saving. 

(23) Brass (Bal) 6'2" is 5/8 from the spot at 63%. (Is no longer at the club).
(23) Ewing (Bal) 6'1" is 17/20 from the spot at 85%. (Is no longer at the club).
(25c) Christie (F.Sport) 6'1" is 46/52 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club). 
(26p) Marsh (CAN)(SCO) 5'10" is 15/17 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club).
(30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is 44/61 from the spot at 72%.
(31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is 2/2 from the spot at 100%.
(33a) Black (Fickle) 6'0" * is 2/3 from the spot at 67%.

Finances. 

[TIR669]

Whatever happens, I think debut season in L2 was a success and you can say that not even halfway through since you're safe from relegation already.  

Most important thing is to be as stable as possible, which will soon include a new stadium based on constant sell-outs too. Are you planning/allowing yourself to buy back some of the youngsters you sold, once you have the cash for it?

 

I took over Elgin City in L2 and won the title in first season, curious what happened to them in your save, can you please check?

Edited December 29, 2023 by TIR669

[Jimbokav1971]

3 minutes ago, TIR669 said:

Whatever happens, I think debut season in L2 was a success and you can say that not even halfway through since you're safe from relegation already.  

Most important thing is to be as stable as possible, which will soon include a new stadium based on constant sell-outs too. Are you planning/allowing yourself to buy back some of the youngsters you sold, once you have the cash for it?

I took over Elgin City in L2 and won the title in first season, curious what happened to them in your save, can you please check?

Yeah, it's been a very positive season so far, and if we can just finish strongly and make the playoffs I will be delighted. Locos have just beat us twice in a row though and that's created a 6 point gap between 4th and 5th. We're drawing too many games at the moment. 

The way I play Youth Only means I am absolutely able to buy back players who have come through our Academy and left, and I am happy to do so in this save, but the problem with these good players that left is that they are immediately on money that makes it impossible to sign them again, even if we were able to do so on a free, (which we aren't). 

1 of them is playing in the Champions League. 
1 of them is playing in the Premiership. 
1 of them is playing in the Championship. 
1 of them has joined a Championship club but has been loaned out to play in League 1. 

None of them are playing for us anytime soon. 

Elgin are currently in the Highland League. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Dec 2035. 

Scottish League 2. It's been a real tough month and even longer than that with a period of 5 losses on the bounce and a run of only 1 win in 11 games until the Cove Rangers win. As well as just not scoring enough goals, even when we're playing well the opposition seem to need only 1 chance to score.  This has been the 1st run of proper poor form in the save and for a while I thought we were never going to win another game again. 

Goal-scoring GK's. Nothing this month. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan 2036.

Scottish League 2. It's a REALLY frustrating month. I think I would have been happy with the other results if we had just beaten Johnstone Burgh. Not only did we not beat them, but we didn't even draw. It's only their 2nd win of the season and it's an absolute disaster. In actual fact we've been playing pretty well, but just not scoring the goals we should be and conceding goals we shouldn't be. It's not a good mix. We're basically great in the middle of the pitch and pants in both boxes. Teams that are not good in either box don't usually win too many football matches. We were decent, (but wasteful), against East Kilbride, were 4 goals down against Dumbarton before we hit back to score 4 goals in the last 8 mins, and were 3-1 down at Stenhousemuir before coming back to win 4-3.

We've dropped to 7th in the league and are now 10 points off 4th and the playoffs and 9 points off 5th and a top-half finish. 

Scottish Cup. (The big one). I know our focus is on the league and progress in the Cup is very much secondary, but this was rubbish! 

(The opposition are in the league below us). We led 2-0 early and it was a nice change, only for the roles to be completely reversed on us as they came from behind to draw against us and then progress on pens. 

Goal-scoring GK's. Nothing this month. 

Finances.

[Jimbokav1971]

Feb 2036.

Scottish League 2. We hit the woodwork 3 times against Peterhead and once each against East Fine and Alloa. If we had a couple of clinical strikers I swear to God we would win the league no matter how many goals we conceded. 

I don't think is loads to fix, (other than goals for being increased and goals against being increased), and if we had just converted 4 draws into wins then we would have 43 points and be right in the mix. It really is fine margins. 

xG. As if to prove my point, here are the xG stats for the League 2. We've scored almost 7 goals fewer than we should have done. Nobody else is even close to this level of underperformance. 

Goal-scoring GK's. Nothing this month. 

(23) Brass (Bal) 6'2" is 5/8 from the spot at 63%. (Is no longer at the club).
(23) Ewing (Bal) 6'1" is 17/20 from the spot at 85%. (Is no longer at the club).
(25c) Christie (F.Sport) 6'1" is 46/52 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club). 
(26p) Marsh (CAN)(SCO) 5'10" is 15/17 from the spot at 88%. (Is no longer at the club).
(30a) Ogilvie (Fickle) 6'2" * is 44/61 from the spot at 72%.
(31k) Lawrie (Unamb) * is 2/2 from the spot at 100%.
(33a) Black (Fickle) 6'0" * is 2/3 from the spot at 67%.

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Day. Mar 2036. 

It looks like pretty decent intake intake in terms of PA, but I can't help thinking that something has changed in FM24 with the way that Youth Intakes work, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I don't think the generation of CA is working in the same way that it has worked in the past. I also think that the place of birth for home nation players is different too. Once again 100% of Scottish born players were born in Alloa. I'm not complaining that this is wrong particularly, (although I think it is the more I think about it*). 

* I've been thinking more and more about all our players coming from Alloa, (and this isn't about them being from Alloa rather than Tullibody). It's that they are all coming from the immediate area and I don't think that's realistic or accurate, but obviously there is no information to go in because Tullibody FC don't have that sort of info available. 

I might not be able to do it with Tullibody, but in actual fact I didn't actually want to do it with them, because they're a L13 club and we're now playing at L4, so let's have a look at a L4 club in Scotland and see if we can see where their Youth players originated. 

I looked at Scottish League 2 in real life and this is what I saw.

For whatever reason, the club that jumped out at me here was Elgin City, so I thought I would have a little look at them and any Academy products that have made the jump to the senior team.

https://www.elgincity.net/community-academy/youth-development-academy

I found some info pretty quickly and it listed a number of players who had made the jump from Academy to 1st Team, so let's have a look at some of them and see if they are all born in the Elgin area, (which is here by the way). By the way, Elgin is roughly where I thought Aberdeen was. I thought it was on the North coast there rather than slightly down the East coast. 

Brian Cameron was born in Aberdeen, and while it's not the other side of the Country, it is still 65 miles from Elgin. 
Darryl McHardy was born in Elgin. 
Rory MacEwan was born in Italy. (Typical ).
David Wilson was born in Aberdeen. 
Aiden Sopel was born in Banf. (50 miles away across the coast to the East). 
Ashley Ballam was born in England. (Typical ).
Lee Scott isn't in my small database.
Owen Loveland was born in Elgin. 
Jake Thomson was born in Inverness. (38 miles across the coast to the West). 

I don't have an issue with players coming through the intake from Aberdeen, Banf or Inverness, and in fact that's what I would expect to see. Rather than all the Tullibody intake coming from Alloa I would expect to see locations such as Stirling, Dunblane, Dunfermline & Falkirk but we're not seeing that. Every single player is from Alloa. 

Maybe the problem is geographical and my comparison between Alloa and the far North area of Elgin isn't a fair one. 

So let's see if I can find the same info about Alloa (in real life). 

I can't find info on the net like I found for Elgin, so let's instead look at the Elgin squad from the database in 2023 and see what we can find. 

Nathan Cannon was born in Greenock. (58 miles to the West & not something we're seeing replicated in the game). 
Cameron O'Donnell was born in Edinburgh. (40 miles away and not something we're seeing replicated in the game). 

Quite a few of the Alloa youngsters have "unknown" as their place of birth in my database. 

I keep thinking that it might be reputation related, but even with our reputation at the low levels of Regional, I would still expect some players to be brought in from slightly further afield, (such as Stirling, Dunfermline, Falkirk etc. It just doesn't feel right and I'm interested to see what happens to the @Makoto Nakamura intakes in his new Westside save as he motors through the seasons. 

[phnompenhandy]

Interesting insights and analysis. I'll keep a close eye on my academy kids at Shetland. There ought to be a sharp difference comparing Shetland (isolated) with Alloa (band middle of the Central Belt).

Someone could do parallel studies of intakes in other countries, comparing nations with little demographic movement, like Japan with cosmopolitan nations like, I dunno, Luxembourg.

If you find a clear pattern that's unrealistic, you must raise it with SI.

[Jimbokav1971]

What's the collective noun for a Group of Hogarths?  Mar 2036.

We've had 4 Hogarth's come through the intake in the last 8 seasons,  but none of them are related.  

All of them defenders by the way. 

[Jimbokav1971]

27 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Interesting insights and analysis. I'll keep a close eye on my academy kids at Shetland. There ought to be a sharp difference comparing Shetland (isolated) with Alloa (band middle of the Central Belt).

Someone could do parallel studies of intakes in other countries, comparing nations with little demographic movement, like Japan with cosmopolitan nations like, I dunno, Luxembourg.

If you find a clear pattern that's unrealistic, you must raise it with SI.

Yeah I'm more just thinking out loud at the moment rather than being completely positive that it's a bug.I've never been one to take much notice of place of birth, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't like that in my England L10 save back in 2021/22 (or whenever it was). 

It could be that it's been caused by my low Rep and the edited database and the small database. I guess we will just see how things develop. 

[phnompenhandy]

13 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Yeah I'm more just thinking out loud at the moment rather than being completely positive that it's a bug.I've never been one to take much notice of place of birth, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't like that in my England L10 save back in 2021/22 (or whenever it was). 

It could be that it's been caused by my low Rep and the edited database and the small database. I guess we will just see how things develop. 

Nope, not rep. I'm just 3 months into my save, so I've checked the U18 squad of Alloa Athletic. there are 17 regen youths.

Place of birth

Alloa 10

Greenock 1

England 1

N. Ireland 1

Bulgaria 1

 

Wick Academy - in the SI database: 20 regen youths, 18 born in Wick. 1 England, 1 Ireland.

Edited December 30, 2023 by phnompenhandy

[Jimbokav1971]

3 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Nope, not rep. I'm just 3 months into my save, so I've checked the U18 squad of Alloa Athletic. there are 17 regen youths.

Place of birth

Alloa 10

Greenock 1

England 1

N. Ireland 1

Bulgaria 1

You see I don't think there is loads wrong with that. 

Let's ignore the non-Scottish players for a moment because I don't think there is an issue with that anyway, but even just 1 non-Alloa born Scot seems fine for me, (out of 11). I don't want there to be loads of players travelling in from all over Scotland. I just think there should be a tiny bit of variety from the extended local area, (so Stirling, Dunfermline & Falkirk for Alloa). Alloa to Greenock is a fair distance, but there is a real life youngster at Alloa from there so it's not unrealistic. 

We will just have to see how mind change over the next few seasons. 

[phnompenhandy]

4 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

You see I don't think there is loads wrong with that. 

Let's ignore the non-Scottish players for a moment because I don't think there is an issue with that anyway, but even just 1 non-Alloa born Scot seems fine for me, (out of 11). I don't want there to be loads of players travelling in from all over Scotland. I just think there should be a tiny bit of variety from the extended local area, (so Stirling, Dunfermline & Falkirk for Alloa). Alloa to Greenock is a fair distance, but there is a real life youngster at Alloa from there so it's not unrealistic. 

We will just have to see how mind change over the next few seasons. 

 

AFC Wimbledon -  3 born in London, the other 4 born outside England

Vanarama South - Weston Super-mare

WSM 7

1 each from Wales, Ireland and an English kid born in Japan.

Ross County has pleasing diversity:

Dingwall 2

Inverness 2

Hamilton, Kirkwall, Musselburgh 1 each

England, Ireland 1 each

 

[Makoto Nakamura]

My most recent one had 13 from Barvas then one each from England, Ireland & Northern Ireland, I don't think I've had any Scottish players come through in 7 seasons that haven't been from Barvas.

[Jimbokav1971]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

AFC Wimbledon -  3 born in London, the other 4 born outside England

Vanarama South - Weston Super-mare

WSM 7

1 each from Wales, Ireland and an English kid born in Japan.

Ross County has pleasing diversity:

Dingwall 2

Inverness 2

Hamilton, Kirkwall, Musselburgh 1 each

England, Ireland 1 each

What sized database are you using? Maybe I have caused this with the small database choice? 

[phnompenhandy]

2 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

What sized database are you using? Maybe I have caused this with the small database choice? 

small with all nationals from my refugee nations (so, small!)

[phnompenhandy]

3 minutes ago, Makoto Nakamura said:

My most recent one had 13 from Barvas then one each from England, Ireland & Northern Ireland, I don't think I've had any Scottish players come through in 7 seasons that haven't been from Barvas.

Perfect for your Gaelic-only project!

To be fair, the Outermost part of the Outer Hebrides are the most insular parts of Britain, but it's still extreme.

[Jimbokav1971]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

small with all nationals from my refugee nations (so, small!)

Well the next thing then is the comparison in Rep between AFC Wimbledon, WSM, Ross County, Dingwall, ICT & Hamilton.

I think I'm probably guilty of thinking that because we're in League 2 now that ourn Rep must be on a par with the others in League 2, but I'm not sure that's the case yet. I don't have other Nations loaded but I will include the ENglish clubs anyway. 

5,936 Ross County.
4,181 AFC Wimbledon.
3,910 Hamilton.
3,758 ICT.
2,597 Tullibidy. 
2,126 WSM.
825 Dingwall.

We're still a way off even the rubbish established clubs in Scotland. 

[Jimbokav1971]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Perfect for your Gaelic-only project!

To be fair, the Outermost part of the Outer Hebrides are the most insular parts of Britain, but it's still extreme.

I'm expecting to see Scandi's in the @Makoto Nakamurasave. No? 

[Jimbokav1971]

There is a fair bit of interest in Scottish football in this forum at the moment so this might interest a few. 

This is the Arbroath lineup for today's game away to Raith Rovers. . 

They were 1-0 down at HT.

and made 2 subs at the start of the 2nd half.

After 56 mins, the Sub GK Adams has been brought on to play outfield as a striker, (leaving outfield players Stowe & Lyon on the bench).  

 

[Jimbokav1971]

9 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

There is a fair bit of interest in Scottish football in this forum at the moment so this might interest a few. 

This is the Arbroath lineup for today's game away to Raith Rovers. . 

They were 1-0 down at HT.

and made 2 subs at the start of the 2nd half.

After 56 mins, the Sub GK Adams has been brought on to play outfield as a striker, (leaving outfield players Stowe & Lyon on the bench).  

 

OMG He's scored!!!!  From 25 yards! 

 

[Rikulec]

Haha, brilliant stuff.