Improve WINGBACKS in FM24 to attack the box!

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

Hi guys!
First of all I congratulate the developers for the game (I have been a very loyal user for years).
I hope they read this post.

My mention concerns the functioning of the 352 module in game which, unfortunately, is a bit outdated; perhaps because it is a module that in England is still used and considered purely defensive (532), but for at least 5 years it has been adopted in a more modern and fluid way by various coaches.
The most obvious example is Inter, but it is not the only one.
Wingbacks are not just simple laterals who push on the wing to make crosses, but they are much, much more!
They drop to 5 in the non-possession phase, dthey move up the sideline during construction and they attack the lateral depth or the far post in the last third (sometimes even beyond the strikers!). The offensive closure on the far post on the cross (to head or shoot first) for a wingback is a classic and recurring action of the 352. Sometimes he is even in wide-center-back who crosses for the opposite wingback! Look Bastoni to Dumfries....
In short, today, in 352 with a positive or offensive mentality, wingbacks are to all intents and purposes wingers in the attack phase. It is no coincidence that structured players such as Gosens, Dumfries, Udogie, Doig and others are favored to have a favorable physical mismatch in aerial duels in the opponent's area.

However, this insertion into the area on Football Manager is almost impossible to achieve, even with offensive mentalities or preferred moves such as "go into opponent box or go forward". The only solution now is to change the role to W-DW-WM... but obviously they DO NOT go back to a 5-man defense when not in possession and this unbalances the module.
This lack means that the 352 is a module that can be used like 10 years ago, in a rather boring and not very modern way because it brings too few players into the opponent's area.
The strong point of 352 today however is dominance on the pitch and presence of at least 3 or 4 players in the area to receive crosses. (usually 2 strikers, 1 opposite wingback and 1 midfielder if he has centimeters). Obviously, if it is played with a positive and non-defensive mentality.
This makes 352 perhaps one of the most elastic, complex and customizable modules of the moment...although it requires quite specific players.

If it's not very clear how important this feature is, I recommend watching Inter Roma 1-0 in 29/10/2023.
There you will see a modern 352 (Inter) vs a classic 352 (Roma). There is a shocking difference! Focus on Dumfries all match and you'll see what I mean. And while you're at it, look at Pavard who sometimes ends up in the opponent's area even if he's a wide-centre-back! But I don't want to put too many irons on the fire....
For any doubt or clarification, I am completely available, even with data or maps.

I link you other 2 highlights of real matchs. Always against Roma. FOCUS ON DUMFRIES (WB-at).

 

 

I hope I've given you some good inspiration guys! Thank you wholeheartedly for your attention, long live Football Manager.

 

Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

(football analyst and commentator)

Edited February 28 by Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro
Better title

[Kirito88]

1 ora fa, Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro ha scritto:

Hi guys!
First of all I congratulate the developers for the game (I have been a very loyal user for years).
I hope they read this post.

My mention concerns the functioning of the 352 module in game which, unfortunately, is a bit outdated; perhaps because it is a module that in England is still used and considered purely defensive (532), but for at least 5 years it has been adopted in a more modern and fluid way by various coaches.
The most obvious example is Inter, but it is not the only one.
Wingbacks are not just simple laterals who push on the wing to make crosses, but they are much, much more!
They drop to 5 in the non-possession phase, develop in midfield in the possession phase and attack the goal in the attack phase (sometimes even beyond the strikers!). The offensive closure on the far post on the cross is now a classic, recurring action. There are many cases where a wingback crosses the ball to the other wingback who attacks the opposite side of the goal. Sometimes he is even in wide-center-back who crosses for the opposite wingback!
In short, today, in 352 with a positive or offensive mentality, wingbacks are to all intents and purposes offensive-wingers in the attack phase. It is no coincidence that structured players such as Gosens, Dumfries, Udogie, Doig and others are favored to have a favorable physical mismatch in aerial duels in the opponent's area.
However, this insertion into the area on Football Manager is almost impossible to achieve, even with offensive mentalities or preferred moves such as "go into opponent box or go forward". The only solution now is to change the role to wingers... but obviously they DO NOT go back to a 5-man defense when not in possession and this unbalances the module.
This lack means that the 352 is a module that can be used like 10 years ago, in a rather boring and not very modern way because it brings too few players into the opponent's area.
The strong point of 352 today however is dominance on the pitch and presence of at least 3 or 4 players in the area to receive crosses. (usually 2 strikers, 1 opposite wingback and 1 midfielder if he has centimeters). Obviously, if it is played with a positive and non-defensive mentality.
This makes it perhaps one of the most elastic, complex and customizable modules of the moment...although it requires quite specific players.

If it's not very clear how important this feature is, I recommend watching Inter Roma 1-0 in 29/10/2023.
There you will see a modern 352 (Inter) vs a classic 352 (Roma). There is a shocking difference! Focus on Dumfries all match and you'll see what I mean. And while you're at it, look at Pavard who sometimes ends up in the opponent's area even if he's a wide-centre-back! But I don't want to put too many irons on the fire....
For any doubt or clarification, I am completely available, even with data or maps.

Ps: I think you can integrate this feature in 2 possible ways.
1) Simply by making the wingbacks (set on attack) more reactive in entering the area (if the team mentality is positive obviously).
2) Implementing a new specific preferred move/trait that pushes players to dive into the area on crosses. This solution could also help other roles in fact. Like a physical midfielder (e.g. Milinkovic Savic) or even a wide-central-back set on attack in a very fluid team mentality. In this regard, look at Pavard always in Inter-Roma and you will understand. (Now "Get into opposing area" seems not to be enough in cases of roles under miedfield.

I hope I've given you some good inspiration guys! Thank you wholeheartedly for your attention, long live Football Manager.

 

Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

(football analyst and commentator)

I agree 100% viva la qualità 💪

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

What a shame, this topic doesn't seem to be of much interest. Yet I think it's a huge lack in FM.
Seeing my WB or CWB (set to offensive) snooze on the sidelines on crosses coming from the far side instead of diving into the box is depressing.
I and other lovers of the modern 352 will still be forced to use W or WM to be present in the opposite area, enduring huge holes in our defensive flanks.

[kingjericho]

i think you should post this as a bug report in the match engine bugs, if you think the WBs do not attack the box like they sometimes do in real life

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

33 minuti fa, kingjericho ha scritto:

i think you should post this as a bug report in the match engine bugs, if you think the WBs do not attack the box like they sometimes do in real life

Oh thanks! I thought that here was correct place.

[Ivan787]

I agree that Dumfries role is almost impossible to replicate in this me, not only for the "far post issue" but also for the other typical movement: when a forward drop deep to link the play and Denzel stays very very high, cutting sometimes inside to act like a true forward.

CWB could do that, but Is impossible to set him cutting inside.

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

4 minuti fa, Ivan787 ha scritto:

I agree that Dumfries role is almost impossible to replicate in this me, not only for the "far post issue" but also for the other typical movement: when a forward drop deep to link the play and Denzel stays very very high, cutting sometimes inside to act like a true forward.

CWB could do that, but Is impossible to set him cutting inside.

Exactly! In my opinion, the question of attacking the far post is fundamental. Incredible that after all these years on FM it hasn't been improved. Instead, the other dynamic you're talking about could perhaps be approached by giving the player the cuts inside trait or by activating the internal overlap.

[Wolf_pd]

On 09/11/2023 at 03:34, Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro said:

What a shame, this topic doesn't seem to be of much interest. Yet I think it's a huge lack in FM.
Seeing my WB or CWB (set to offensive) snooze on the sidelines on crosses coming from the far side instead of diving into the box is depressing.
I and other lovers of the modern 352 will still be forced to use W or WM to be present in the opposite area, enduring huge holes in our defensive flanks.

You can log a bug as proposed before.

If you want to leave it as suggestion only, please do realise that at this time around release the suggestion threads get slightly less attention as all focus is on the game. That doesn't mean your suggestion won't be reviewed or picked, only that at this moment it will take slightly longer. So no case of not interested, just a different focus at SI.

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

32 minuti fa, Wolf_pd ha scritto:

You can log a bug as proposed before.

If you want to leave it as suggestion only, please do realise that at this time around release the suggestion threads get slightly less attention as all focus is on the game. That doesn't mean your suggestion won't be reviewed or picked, only that at this moment it will take slightly longer. So no case of not interested, just a different focus at SI.

Thank you very much, it's very kind of you to worry.
I think I reported it as a bug with other topic 1-2 days ago.
However, it is normal that as soon as fm24 is released there is more interest in correcting other errors, I easily understand it.

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

I found a great article about pro training the 352 and wingbacks.
I hope it can be useful to our debate and especially to developers. I dream of a day when these actions will be possible on FM24! With a BBM and a Wingback attacking the box like this. Which now never happens.

https://elitesoccercoaching.net/attacking/attacking-phases-incorporating-wing-backs

[Tangzila]

@Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

Have you read this thread?

Cheers!

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

3 ore fa, Tangzila ha scritto:

@Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

Have you read this thread?

Cheers!

Yes, it's good, but I disagree on some points.
There is still too much superficiality in the analysis of Inter's 352....some clichés persist and are also present in that topic.
And they also disagree on some roles and some team tactics.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

[Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro]

Hi everybody!
I created a new topic about Wide-Centre-Back on FM.
Another role that developers should refine, beyond Wingbacks. I believe that you, lovers of the 352, may be interested.

 

[Zachary Whyte]

We appreciate the detailed feedback @Ermes Messaggero Nerazzurro

We will consider your suggestions for future development.