Double pivot issue

[sonnevillejr]

Hi everyone,

I'm playing with a 4231 at the moment and I'm currently 1st in Ligue 2 with a relegation candidate.

However I'm playing with a tactic that I don't really find "balanced" : I started the season with a DLPsu and DMde pivot because I thought it would allow my wingbacks to go higher with decent cover but got poor results. I then switched the DLPsu for a RPM but it didn't get any better. Here's what I tried to use :

Everytime I played with a defend duty in midfield, I noticed that he always had a higher position than my support duty midfielder. Like you can see in the following picture, the player next to the referee is my defend duty midfielder and the one in front of my CBs is my RPM :

I always got poor results when using a defend duty player in midfield, but since I switched him to a support duty, I started winning regularly and he has a lower position than the defend duty. It's the exact opposite of what the descriptions says and I always thought that 2 midfielders with support duties (with a roaming one) offer less defensive cover than at least 1 holding midfielder.

Is this a bug or something that I don't understand?

[Prolix]

My understanding is that playmaker roles are coded to "show" for the ball more, i.e. move into space towards a teammate who is on the ball. For a DM during the buildup phase, this would naturally mean moving into deeper positions. 

[sonnevillejr]

1 hour ago, Prolix said:

My understanding is that playmaker roles are coded to "show" for the ball more, i.e. move into space towards a teammate who is on the ball. For a DM during the buildup phase, this would naturally mean moving into deeper positions. 

I even tried a DMde/DMsu combination, and the DMsu is always the deepest player 

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

I even tried a DMde/DMsu combination, and the DMsu is always the deepest player 

Check the player's mentalities in their PIs. Some players are naturally more Attacking/defensive which could be a factor. 

If that's not it, I second what @Prolix said about showing for the ball. Sounds like the DM(s) might be dropping deeper to get involved in the play from the defence.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Cloud9

[sonnevillejr]

I tried a DMde/Volante combination, here are the results :

 

 

 

 

With this role combination, we could expect to see the DMde sitting in front of the defense while the segundo volante pushed forward. But again, the support duty is always the deepest player, Baleba here is the DMde and look how far he is. Is this a bug or something?

FYI, these 2 situations are different actions, we are not in counter-attack situations, and the player has no trait.

[Johnny Ace]

Single screenshots from single phases of play won't tell you much, what are the average position maps showing?

[Smiza]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Johnny Ace:

Single screenshots from single phases of play won't tell you much, what are the average position maps showing?

Since reading some of your posts I started using cm on support in my 442. Absolutely love it as a double pivot. In a 4231 two dms on support might be a good choice.

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, Smiza said:

Since reading some of your posts I started using cm on support in my 442. Absolutely love it as a double pivot.

Great! I always find nice and simple does the trick 

3 minutes ago, Smiza said:

In a 4231 two dms on support might be a good choice.

Yes they are, have been using them for years 

[Smiza]

It just fits my philosophy of having symmetry (hello inner Monk) and simplicity. I want my players to decide how to interpret the role. 

[Johnny Ace]

12 minutes ago, Smiza said:

It just fits my philosophy of having symmetry (hello inner Monk) and simplicity. I want my players to decide how to interpret the role. 

Attributes and traits will help dictate how a player will play, regardless of the role given by the manager so giving them roles with minimal instructions helps bring them out.  Roles are basically the name of a number of instructions you are giving the player