Replicating Arsenals pressing

[julle17]

Hi everyone

So i'm an Arsenal fan and we are doing a bit alright at this football thing. So i decided to try and replicate how we play, while not perfect of course it's FM, i've gotten alot of the offensive movement that i've been looking for, so i'm happy with that. 

My question is about pressing. More specifically about if there is a way to make my team engage a press in a very specific way. I've tried quite a few things, and none of it seem to work, so i'm just throwing this question out, knowing there quite possibly isn't a way to do it in FM.

So this is how my tactic looks, not quite spot on of course, but i do think i've got mostly the right roles for the kind of movement we get, apart from the poacher, but that is just because i find Jesus drops far too much if he plays anything other than P or AF.

So my question about pressing is if i can get certain player to trigger the press in a specific way Illustrated below.

So i will try to explain what i mean with this picture. When we press IRL, Nketiah or Jesus engage either CB and tries to move them to one side. Here they engage the opponents Rcb and try to get them left. Here Saka will be waiting between the Lcb and Lb, keeping the Lb in his cover shadow. When the ball gets played to the Lcb Saka jumps the press, and Ben white who is not initially marking comes tight on the Lb if the ball would be played towards him.
It could be vice versa in the other side with Zinchenko and Martinelli having the same dynamic.
This is what it often looks like when the press has happened

Usually we will have forced the opposition into a long ball from here, or even better recover the ball high up the pitch. How the midfield three move obviously depend on how the opposition player move, but above is what it would resemble if the opponent build in a 4-3-3. If the opponent build with a double pivot Ødegaard and Xhaka mark up high while Partey and the 3 other defenders that haven't joined the press high man mark.

So now that i've described, in hopefully understandable language since english isn't my first, i will say what i've tried so far. I have tried to use OIs in hopes of showing onto certain foot to block passing lanes, an example would be lcb shown onto right foot, in attempt to get saka to cover the lb in his covershadow. I've also tried the trap inside in hopes of achieving the same cover of passing lane to fb. And while both sometimes kinda did it, it just wasn't very consistent.

Now comes the second problem i encounter, and that's the positioning of Ben White.

I would also want Martinelli wider, but its usually fine because he moves wider later usually. And the position Saka is in, is perfect. Midfield far too deep aswell, another issue. But the most annoying thing here is my RB, he's way too far back. Here i would want him in line with where Ødegaard is, ready to jump the press.
What happens because of this often, is Saka presses the Lcb, Lcb passes their left sided cm, who has no issue doing a first time pass to the Lb because Ødegaard isn't tight, and then the Lb has loads of space in front of him, because my Rb hasn't pushed up to be ready to press.

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by julle17

[julle17]

Just found this video from the first game of the season v palace. At the time the video should start he explains the dynamic i'm talking about, just on the opposite side.

[The3points]

Hm perhaps get wingers to mark the FBs, with press more triggered on the centre-halves. Then for the RB issue, maybe give them extremely high trigger press (PI) along side with press more on FBs.

[julle17]

2 hours ago, The3points said:

Hm perhaps get wingers to mark the FBs, with press more triggered on the centre-halves. Then for the RB issue, maybe give them extremely high trigger press (PI) along side with press more on FBs.

Should've mentioned ive tried this too, the only thing that i've been able to somewhat get the proper position of th full back to jump the press is play him in the wing back slot instead, that just ruins the offensive dynamic and when we defend in our own half, and he usually doesn't press immediately on the opposing fullback and gets tight enough. Thanks for the reply though

[_mxrky]

It’s not possible on fm I’m afraid. I’ve been trying all year. You can possibly move Ben white to rwb so he presses higher but full backs don’t press full backs on this game. It’s a massive flaw in the match engine.

 

forutnately most teams play 4231 on fm so you can press in a basic 442 shape most of the time 

Edited February 1, 2023 by _mxrky

[jeru]

Yea I think you need to lower your expectations, the pressing complexity is limited to - press more or press much more that’s it. 
 

there is no concept of proper pressing triggers despite the options in the UI, pressing as a team is also beyond the ability of the game, it’s largely a 1 vs 1 challenge based game ie one player presses one player. You won’t get defenders jumping out to press higher up the pitch it isn’t possible 

[julle17]

I wasn't expecting it to be possible, but wanted to ask anyway.
Thanks for the answers, good to know i'm not just completely useless at the game

[soft tofu]

I too have been trying to press with cover shadows, cutting passing lane. Pushed MCs into AMCs to see if they'll cover the opposition midfield, but found no success there.
In regards to the FBs pressing high, have you try playing with a back three instead? Push one of the FB into Defensive Winger. Force opposition to pass only to one side of the field?

[Gruf]

In the game against ManYoo when I watched, it was a bit of a hybrid press at times. High Press on occasion, retreating to a low block press

Edited February 2, 2023 by Gruf

[The3points]

6 hours ago, soft tofu said:

I too have been trying to press with cover shadows, cutting passing lane. Pushed MCs into AMCs to see if they'll cover the opposition midfield, but found no success there.
In regards to the FBs pressing high, have you try playing with a back three instead? Push one of the FB into Defensive Winger. Force opposition to pass only to one side of the field?

covering opposition midfield is as simple as tight marking OI, tight marking PI, or manmarking PI

[julle17]

So i decided to try the most extreme solution to the problem, which was man marking indidual players all over the pitch, so essentially everyone is told to man mark in the manner described in the first post. Of course it's not perfect, but we actually got a nice little sequence i wanted to share.

First this is the initial position from their GK, couple issues still, Martinelli i would still like wider. Nketiah more towards the Rcb. And Xhaka closer to his man.
But i still like this better.
Now their keeper pass to the Lcb, who Saka immediately press, while somewhat keeping the Lb in his cover shadow, not perfect, but not horrendous. Also see how both Nketiah and Martinelli are now in much better positions, only issue here is Xhaka not being tight on number 7

The cdm receives a pass above, and since Ødegaard is so tight, he's forced back to the keeper, who Nketiah then jumps to press. Would've liked him to keep his cover shadow better, but the keeper doesn't see the option and ends up going long, where White wins the ball.

I will keep trying to achieve it, honestly makes the rest of the defence a shambles, but i am enjoying tinkering around with this idea.

[julle17]

 

So i went onto FM 22 to try, and in my second game using a bit of both the mark position and mark player instruction i got a goal from the setup nearly perfect, incredibly happy with it. So essentially  Saka, Tomiyasu and Ben White have the mark specific player, and all the others only have mark specific position. I tried the exact same thing on FM 23 and it didn't work at all. Might make me just play FM 22 instead.

[_mxrky]

1 hour ago, julle17 said:

 

So i went onto FM 22 to try, and in my second game using a bit of both the mark position and mark player instruction i got a goal from the setup nearly perfect, incredibly happy with it. So essentially  Saka, Tomiyasu and Ben White have the mark specific player, and all the others only have mark specific position. I tried the exact same thing on FM 23 and it didn't work at all. Might make me just play FM 22 instead.

Did you use the same 433 formation for this?

[julle17]

9 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Did you use the same 433 formation for this?

Only change from the 4-3-3 presented in the first is the right back has been moved to wing back slot, and is a wb-d. Oh also striker moved to the left

Edited February 2, 2023 by julle17

[Cloud9]

On 01/02/2023 at 06:33, julle17 said:

Hi everyone

So i'm an Arsenal fan and we are doing a bit alright at this football thing. So i decided to try and replicate how we play, while not perfect of course it's FM, i've gotten alot of the offensive movement that i've been looking for, so i'm happy with that. 

My question is about pressing. More specifically about if there is a way to make my team engage a press in a very specific way. I've tried quite a few things, and none of it seem to work, so i'm just throwing this question out, knowing there quite possibly isn't a way to do it in FM.

So this is how my tactic looks, not quite spot on of course, but i do think i've got mostly the right roles for the kind of movement we get, apart from the poacher, but that is just because i find Jesus drops far too much if he plays anything other than P or AF.

So my question about pressing is if i can get certain player to trigger the press in a specific way Illustrated below.

So i will try to explain what i mean with this picture. When we press IRL, Nketiah or Jesus engage either CB and tries to move them to one side. Here they engage the opponents Rcb and try to get them left. Here Saka will be waiting between the Lcb and Lb, keeping the Lb in his cover shadow. When the ball gets played to the Lcb Saka jumps the press, and Ben white who is not initially marking comes tight on the Lb if the ball would be played towards him.
It could be vice versa in the other side with Zinchenko and Martinelli having the same dynamic.
This is what it often looks like when the press has happened

Usually we will have forced the opposition into a long ball from here, or even better recover the ball high up the pitch. How the midfield three move obviously depend on how the opposition player move, but above is what it would resemble if the opponent build in a 4-3-3. If the opponent build with a double pivot Ødegaard and Xhaka mark up high while Partey and the 3 other defenders that haven't joined the press high man mark.

So now that i've described, in hopefully understandable language since english isn't my first, i will say what i've tried so far. I have tried to use OIs in hopes of showing onto certain foot to block passing lanes, an example would be lcb shown onto right foot, in attempt to get saka to cover the lb in his covershadow. I've also tried the trap inside in hopes of achieving the same cover of passing lane to fb. And while both sometimes kinda did it, it just wasn't very consistent.

Now comes the second problem i encounter, and that's the positioning of Ben White.

I would also want Martinelli wider, but its usually fine because he moves wider later usually. And the position Saka is in, is perfect. Midfield far too deep aswell, another issue. But the most annoying thing here is my RB, he's way too far back. Here i would want him in line with where Ødegaard is, ready to jump the press.
What happens because of this often, is Saka presses the Lcb, Lcb passes their left sided cm, who has no issue doing a first time pass to the Lb because Ødegaard isn't tight, and then the Lb has loads of space in front of him, because my Rb hasn't pushed up to be ready to press.

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers

 

 

You can try mark tighter on certain players PI (zone based) to create a pressing trap.

I'm not sure if that would help you but that's a way I've consistently found of forcing opposition players into specific parts of the pitch where I've set up to try to take the ball off them. I agree with what other people had said, the match engine has a hard time replicating pressing properly and since first touches are not punished as they are IRL its difficult to replicate.

[korreZinho]

Pressing wont work like that cuz your opponent LEFT WING will always be free on the goal kick. I have tried the same setup and every game he gets the ball after GK and i do concede. 

[_mxrky]

13 hours ago, julle17 said:

Only change from the 4-3-3 presented in the first is the right back has been moved to wing back slot, and is a wb-d. Oh also striker moved to the left

striker on the left. Doesn't that ruin attacking in the five channels?

[julle17]

2 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

striker on the left. Doesn't that ruin attacking in the five channels?

Sometimes, which again is why i have to constantly remind myself there's only a handful of things at once i get right when trying to replicate it, before there's to many thing interfering

[soft tofu]

23 hours ago, The3points said:

covering opposition midfield is as simple as tight marking OI, tight marking PI, or manmarking PI

Most team's able to play through my pressing. Will give this a try though. Thank you.

 

36 minutes ago, julle17 said:

Sometimes, which again is why i have to constantly remind myself there's only a handful of things at once i get right when trying to replicate it, before there's to many thing interfering

This is a problem I encounter as well when trying to build an attacking 5 from 4-4-2.

Good to see your progress and would like to see more.

[_mxrky]

Have you got a version vs back 5s. Pressing back 5s seems impossible on fm

[julle17]

51 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Have you got a version vs back 5s. Pressing back 5s seems impossible on fm

Nothing i've tried no, but i do remember the structure we used against spurs, which was actually lopsided compared to how we have pressed most of the time against other teams.

So this would be how we set up from Goal kicks. Lloris would pass it to their Lcb, who Ødegaard would press, only short option available is the Lwb, who Saka then would press while covering the passing lane towards Højbjerg in Lcm, either forcing them long, or Højbjerg to drift wide to receive where Partey would be very tight on him, while Højbjerg faces towards the sideline

At this point i don't really know what to do, because if i achieve the structure from a goal kick, the rest of our defence is so bad theres no point in trying it anyway, and i need to move people around depending on what formation the opponent plays, which is not really something i want to spend my time doing when playing FM. And if i don't go all out with the man marking instructions, and the formation we obviously don't achieve the right structure, so i guess i'm back at that point, where i will just have to be content with the couple things that i can replicate in FM and leave it at that. I will keep trying because i'm a stubborn bastard, but i'm not really even sure what i could try to do differently, feels like i've tried every permutation of instructions that i can think of.

If anyone has any ideas please share, i still really want to get this to work
 

Edited February 3, 2023 by julle17

[The3points]

8 hours ago, soft tofu said:

Most team's able to play through my pressing. Will give this a try though. Thank you.

 

This is a problem I encounter as well when trying to build an attacking 5 from 4-4-2.

Good to see your progress and would like to see more.

To get front 5 in 4-4-2, why couldn't you try adding a Mezzala alongside the natural front 4 and invert the fullbacks?

Edited February 3, 2023 by The3points