Possible to replicate Asia's East-West split?

[rusty217]

I'm wondering if it's possible to have something similar to the East/West split in the Asian Champions League where groups A-D are exclusively West Asian teams and E-H East Asian.

I want to make a club competition for the Americas, but to have the group stages split so some groups are North American teams only and the others are South American teams only. Is that possible? Ideally I'd like to have different results for the 3rd placed teams too, so the NA 3rd placed teams transfer to a North American 2nd tier competition while the 3rd placed SA teams transfer to a South American competition.

[Wolf_pd]

I haven't been able to replicate it yet. The closest I have been able to come is by setting up the draw geographically.

[rusty217]

3 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I haven't been able to replicate it yet. The closest I have been able to come is by setting up the draw geographically.

How picky is that? I mean, can you set it up just to do a north/south split, or will it make groups with just teams from the same country?

[Wolf_pd]

In the rules is also an option to allow teams from the same country to be drawn into the same group, or make sure they are not drawn together. So more teams from one nation will be divided over multiple groups.

[rusty217]

hmm, I'll have to have a play around with things if I get FM22 and see if I can something sort of working how I want.

[themodelcitizen]

Use the group setting rule "ask competition for groups" (and no others). Assuming you're getting the teams in order (i.e. under the "teams" screen it's the entries for the 16 North American teams, then the 16 South American teams), it should just draw the groups that way. You'd have to play with the team order to get the seedings to work the way you want within each north/south subsection, mind you.

 

[Wolf_pd]

Interesting, will take this on board for my next edits. Thanks!

[rusty217]

hmm, I may have a solution. Thought about just running 2 group stages at the same time, one for the CONCACAF teams and one for the CONMEBOL. Just did a quick test using Spanish/Portuguese teams and it seems to work. The Spanish group stage is just Spanish teams, the Portuguese group stage is just Portuguese teams and then the knockout stages are mixed. Would require some playing around with seedings I suppose, to get specific seedings for each continent and have those define which group stage the team enters. Seems possible though.

If anybody has any tips for setting up continental cup qualification I'd love to hear them! I'm especially interested in hearing how to get having the reigning champions qualify. I mean, if they qualify automatically via their league finish wouldn't I have 1 too few teams in the competition?

[themodelcitizen]

You can add extra teams at the bottom of "teams" and it will only call them if needed, i.e. if the last winner is a unique team that doesn't qualify otherwise then the game won't resort to using the teams at the bottom of the list. If the last winner double qualifies and one of the entries on the "teams" screen is a double, it will keep going down the list. So you can add, like the Caribbean 2nd place team or the CONCACAF League 7th place team or something at the bottom

[rusty217]

Bit of an old thread to resurrect, but I've figured it out! Thought I'd share in case anybody else wants to do something similar. My set up is below. Basically you set up team list changes in the stage you want to split. 1st you tell it to sort all teams by longitude (or latitude if you want a north/south split instead), then you tell it to split the first half of those teams (in this case teams 0-31) by reputation (or alternatively European club coefficient) then assign seedings to those teams based on how many groups you want per region. I'm using 8 groups for east and 8 groups for west so I assigned the best 8 teams to seeding 0, then the next 8 to seeding 2 and so on. After that I did the same to the second half of teams (32-63), sorted by reputation and then set seedings for each set of 8 teams starting with seeding 1 then 3 and so on.

Then go to the group settings page and set up invalid groups for seedings. Setting all the seedings with eastern teams to be invalid for the first set of groups and the western teams to be invalid for the second half of groups. In this case I set the seedings assigned to eastern teams 0-31 (seedings 0, 2, 4 & 6) to be invalid for groups 0-7 and the seedings for western teams 32-63 (1, 3, 5 & 7) to be invalid for groups 8-15. Make sure the draw rules has both "Seeded Group Draw" and "Treats Seedings As Pots". I also added "Max Number Of Teams From Nation Per Group" = 1

And the result...

A clear east/west split. Groups A-H are exclusively western teams, groups I-P are exclusively eastern.

Not exactly the same as the AFC Champions League I referenced in the OP, as the split is based on actual team locations rather than country. Although it being dynamic and teams from countries in the middle being eligible for either side of the split depending on how many teams have qualified from each side is arguably an improvement. I think it's nice to have an Asian Champions League where teams from countries like India or Uzbekistan can end up on both the eastern and western side of the split at least.

Edited March 12, 2022 by rusty217

[Wolf_pd]

This is interesting. Using the regional draw works pretty well, but this is obviously a step ahead of that.

[Dave Fairbairn]

You can also do a more complex version by using nations when getting teams.

 

For instance, you could get all qualified teams but make sure to set the nation of the teams you want to get.  This way would allow for more than one region without resorting to using regional groups that often lead to multiple teams from one nation per group. For instance, if you gave all Japanese teams seeding 0, Chinese teams seeding 1, Korea seeding 2, you can have a far east section by using seeding rules limiting certain seed to certain groups, whilst still being able to keep teams from the same nation apart.

[Wolf_pd]

Revisiting this, because when looking up something in the French Cup setup I spotted something that could be of help.

The Cup starts of with quite a bit of teams, including some that aren't part of the French Mainland (not talking about you Corsica or Mont Saint-Michel!)

In the fifth round (assuming the other rounds are preliminary rounds that FM doesn't run) a regional draw is done

Nothing too fancy, or so I thought at first. Looking at General I noticed you can actually give in how many regions you want for your driaw. So I was wondering @rusty217 could this be usable for the East-West split in Asia? Looking at the geography my thought is it could be.

[themodelcitizen]

I've used "regions" for cup draws before and they seem to split by east-west, although I'd need to test that further. 4 regions for quarterfinals mean everyone just gets their closest rival, the Canadian Championship was doing that for a year or two to save on travel costs. 2 regions would mean each region (of 4 teams) would then draw according to whatever other instructions you give it IIRC. Not as helpful for a group stage draw like above though

Edited October 23, 2023 by themodelcitizen

[V50]

On 22/10/2023 at 21:39, Wolf_pd said:

Revisiting this, because when looking up something in the French Cup setup I spotted something that could be of help.

The Cup starts of with quite a bit of teams, including some that aren't part of the French Mainland (not talking about you Corsica or Mont Saint-Michel!)

In the fifth round (assuming the other rounds are preliminary rounds that FM doesn't run) a regional draw is done

Nothing too fancy, or so I thought at first. Looking at General I noticed you can actually give in how many regions you want for your driaw. So I was wondering @rusty217 could this be usable for the East-West split in Asia? Looking at the geography my thought is it could be.

Totally hijacking, but just to note that the French Caribbean has specific cup competitions for the French Cup qualifications in the editors :) 

[omarsorto6]

I am gonna try do this but with the north and South America