Losing every away game.

[_mxrky]

The tactic. The front four are on close down more:

 

 Home record:

Away record:

The difference is really killing the enjoyment of the game for me. Don't really understand what's wrong with the tactic at all to be honest

[Experienced Defender]

9 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Don't really understand what's wrong with the tactic at all to be honest

First roles and duties:

- move the striker and AMC back to central positions (as opposed to that asymmetric shape)

- change the striker's role either into DLF on attack or CF on attack (because IF on attack and AF are not an optimal attacking partnership)

- tell the AM to roam from position and take more risks (assuming he is creative and good passer)

When it comes to instructions, there is nothing wrong per se. But given that the tactic is not plug'n'play, you have to watch matches and make small subtle tweaks when needed (not on a random basis but logically). 

Keep also in mind that away games are inherently harder than home ones, which is why you cannot expect the away record to be as good as at home. 

Question: do you use a split block?

[_mxrky]

45 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

First roles and duties:

- move the striker and AMC back to central positions (as opposed to that asymmetric shape)

- change the striker's role either into DLF on attack or CF on attack (because IF on attack and AF are not an optimal attacking partnership)

- tell the AM to roam from position and take more risks (assuming he is creative and good passer)

When it comes to instructions, there is nothing wrong per se. But given that the tactic is not plug'n'play, you have to watch matches and make small subtle tweaks when needed (not on a random basis but logically). 

Keep also in mind that away games are inherently harder than home ones, which is why you cannot expect the away record to be as good as at home. 

Question: do you use a split block?

- Why are asymmetric formations bad?

- I’ll try the second change. Although I am a bit hesitant to change because my attack has been very effective

- Yes I already have those instructions on my am 

- I have my front four on close down more. I think that’s what you mean by split block? 

[Gdansk]

I mean he specifically wanted to have this shape in his other threads and it seems to work at home, so don't know why it's necessary to make a normal 4-2-3-1 out of it again.

I'd 100% remove Play Out Of Defence and instead add Distribute To Full Backs, so since you don't have a big striker your keeper won't play long balls you'll never win but your Defenders won't ignore transition opportunities. As I told you last thread you have like 5-6 (with Daka as well) crazy pace wingers/strikers, so you really should use their strengths by adding Counter on away games when teams give you the space fo these guys to go into.

I'd put Tierney on FB/S with stay wider at least in away games, feels like wasting him in my mind unfortunately, but WB/S in this game isn't really good and with Depay on the IF/A not working too much you could get exposed there. Midfield I personally don't like having the holding playmaker on S and then another pure defender, but doesn't mean it can't work at all.

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Why are asymmetric formations bad?

I didn't say they are bad (although I personally never use them), but I also don't see any particular reason to go with an asymmetric 4231 when the normal 4231 can work quite nicely. But even if you want to retain the asymmetric formation, I would still recommend the same tweak to the striker role. 

 

2 hours ago, _mxrky said:

I’ll try the second change. Although I am a bit hesitant to change because my attack has been very effective

Well, you can always revert to the old combo if you don't like how the new one works. Btw, if you don't want to change the striker's role (AF), you can change the IF on attack into IW on attack as an alternative. But keep in mind the the lone striker tends to remain isolated when played as an AF, especially in attack-minded tactical styles. 

 

2 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Yes I already have those instructions on my am 

 

 

2 hours ago, _mxrky said:

I have my front four on close down more. I think that’s what you mean by split block? 

Yes, that's the split block 

You may consider removing the split block in away games only, because as I said earlier, away games are always harder and riskier by definition. Anyway, being just slightly less aggressive in away games - either by the removal of the split block or counter-press - could be exactly the tweak you need. Try and see.

[_mxrky]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I didn't say they are bad (although I personally never use them), but I also don't see any particular reason to go with an asymmetric 4231 when the normal 4231 can work quite nicely. But even if you want to retain the asymmetric formation, I would still recommend the same tweak to the striker role. 

 

Well, you can always revert to the old combo if you don't like how the new one works. Btw, if you don't want to change the striker's role (AF), you can change the IF on attack into IW on attack as an alternative. But keep in mind the the lone striker tends to remain isolated when played as an AF, especially in attack-minded tactical styles. 

 

 

 

Yes, that's the split block 

You may consider removing the split block in away games only, because as I said earlier, away games are always harder and riskier by definition. Anyway, being just slightly less aggressive in away games - either by the removal of the split block or counter-press - could be exactly the tweak you need. Try and see.

Just been hammered by Leicester despite changing my forward to dlf at and removing counter press. At a loss with away games now. By the second half, I tried almost every combination of instructions and I was just getting battered with wave after wave of attack. It's like my players lose all footballing ability away from home. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by _mxrky

[CARRERA]

42 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

It's like my players lose all footballing ability away from home.

what does exactly happen? Try to be as detailed as possible.

 

[_mxrky]

6 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

what does exactly happen? Try to be as detailed as possible.

 

My players lose all composure and boot the ball even when playing out of defence is removed. My opponents overload the flanks and put in cross aafter corss. I get dominated in possession and almost every metric. Here is a pkm of my last two matches 

Derby v Arsenal.pkm

 Leicester v Arsenal.pkm

[CARRERA]

56 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

My players lose all composure and boot the ball even when playing out of defence is removed. My opponents overload the flanks and put in cross aafter corss. I get dominated in possession and almost every metric. Here is a pkm of my last two matches 

Derby v Arsenal.pkm 207.2 kB · 0 downloads

  Leicester v Arsenal.pkm 215.56 kB · 0 downloads

So first of all, you didn't really got dominated at least at the derby match ;-)

However, especially on the Leicester match, you can see very clearly what happens. They completely abuse the space behind your defense, just watch the first two highlights. The main problem here is, that you try to fit in a "rather cautious" defensive style into one of the most aggressive systems (which is a 4-2-3-1). 

I will drill this down a bit more. Split Block Pressing is a style where deep sitting teams allow their forward players to press the opposition when entering their half to distract complex build up patterns. Also a defensive Split block does require the rest of the team to press to a lesser extend to remain solidity. Positive mentality tho already comes with a "slightly higher" pressing intensity for the whole team. Your Team is not sitting deep, its playing with a higher defensive line. The opposition is given way too much time to sort things out. I would always recomment to press in an area, where your team has numercial advantage naturally. A 4-2-3-1 does suit higher or even much higher DL/LOE setting with a related pressing intensity.

If you want to sit deeper, i would at least lower your DL by one notch an switch the formation to a 4-2-3-1 DM or something completely different.

That would be my starting point and then build up from there

Edited June 9, 2021 by CARRERA