tiki taka help

[webb1999]

Hi all, ive been reading posts for a while but this is my first post. I have been a player off fm for quite a while but never quite seem to get tactics to work, Im currently playing late into a save (2028) and have ended up at spurs.

My aim is to play a short passing, tiki taka style, whilst be defensively solid. At the moment I am finding that we are creating a few chances, but not getting many shots on target and not scoring many goals. We are also not as defensively solid as I would like.

 

Getting my strikers to link up and score seems to be a major problem

 

Is there any advice, re anything really, specifically though how to create and score more chances. Are my team instructions suitable? and what about my positions and roles? I'm happy to take any advice on board thank you. 

[YLSFM00]

I'd take some of your TI'S off to start, because right now it's pretty much overkill. Tight marking also doesn't fit with extremely urgent pressing.

In terms of your roles and duties, I'd make one of your BPD'S a standard CD on defend, and make the DLF on support an attack duty for some extra penetration. 

In the centre of midfield, you have 2 risky runner CM'S in BBM and Mezzala, I'd change one to more of a supporting role.

[webb1999]

24 minutes ago, YLSFM00 said:

I'd take some of your TI'S off to start, because right now it's pretty much overkill. Tight marking also doesn't fit with extremely urgent pressing.

 

okay great thank you! so try and simplify the team instructions? is having play out of defence and also distribute to centre backs overkill?

 

25 minutes ago, YLSFM00 said:

In terms of your roles and duties, I'd make one of your BPD'S a standard CD on defend, and make the DLF on support an attack duty for some extra penetration. 

 

sounds like a good idea, ill deffo give these a go would complete forward on attack also work to give more attacking opportunities?

 

26 minutes ago, YLSFM00 said:

In the centre of midfield, you have 2 risky runner CM'S in BBM and Mezzala, I'd change one to more of a supporting role.

okay cool supporting roles wise what would you recomend? would a CM on support work? or an AP on support or attack?

 

Thanks again
A

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, webb1999 said:

Is there any advice, re anything really, specifically though how to create and score more chances.

When playing a tiki-taka playstyle your players are mainly adviced to take lesser risks with the ball to maintain possession. All shorter passing, lower tempo, narrow attacking width and work ball into box are low risk TI's. To score goals tho you need to create space and penetration no matter what style of football you are looking for. While other playing style might achieve that from longer passes, highter tempo or deep runs / dribblings, tiki taka achieves that with players being in motion and provide passing options but also utilizing their vision and flair to create the unexpected.

So to achieve that make sure your players have proper vision, flair and off the ball movement and duties are set up primarily to make wide players cut inside, central players move wide and lower positioned players are more progressive to create overlaps on the flanks and in central attack. (most likely you did that already). To further utilize that you might add be more expressive as with a positive mentality creative freedom is rather average anyway. To receive more penetration from your passes you might also pass into space to implement short, but risky passes. this also makes your players to make runs into open spaces. Eventhough you press up high the pitch, there will be enough space to make runs into. Furthermore i would remove hold shape, as you are playing with low tempo anyway which helps your players to overlap each other and move up the pitch to provide enough passing options.

If you still struggle to score start removing low rist TI's in possession. Try to remove WBIB and Narrow positioning first. 

[YLSFM00]

1 hour ago, webb1999 said:

sounds like a good idea, ill deffo give these a go would complete forward on attack also work to give more attacking opportunities?

Yeah, that can also work depending on if Parrott is good to do the role. 

 

1 hour ago, webb1999 said:

 so try and simplify the team instructions?

👍. Personally I'd remove Work Ball into Box, and then set the tempo and attacking width to default for in possession TI'S, in transition you can remove take short kicks (cause with PooD you're doing that already) and out of possession, remove get stuck in and then, if you want to keep using tight marking, make the pressing intensity default, if vice versa, remove tight marking. 

 

1 hour ago, webb1999 said:

okay cool supporting roles wise what would you recomend? would a CM on support work? or an AP on support or attack?

Both are pretty attacking, a CM on defend is more balanced.

Edited April 11, 2021 by YLSFM00

[webb1999]

Thank you both for your advice, I have tried to take this on board over the last few games and this is what my tactic looks like now

(please ignore the injury's and suspensions I took this screen shot just after a game.

 

I've been watching the games in comprehensive and we are definitely looking better going forward, and we are even more solid defensively. 

Just a few questions re tactic for balance of my tactic, would I better swapping the CM roles? Just realise the BBM and WB (A) could leave my right side quite open defensively?

 

Also would I be better to change my DLP to Support, or maybe change his role completely? is my midfield 3 to defensive?

 

 

[CARRERA]

its rather set up like a quick transitioning tactic, looking for counter attacks from the middle of the pitch with short passes. But if you like what you see on the pitch i guess its fine 

Edited April 11, 2021 by CARRERA

[13th Man]

I actually liked your midfield better in the first version - MEZ(s), BBM, and DLP(d) - and keeping things narrow is very good for keeping possession.  Maybe the BBM could be a CM(s) to make him a little more disciplined, but I don't think that's the issue.  The DLP(d), if they have the pace/workrate/stamina can also cover for your more adventurous wingback.  I will say that I personally like the MEZ(s) on the same side as the IF(s) to create overloads in that space and/or draw the defense over leaving the IF(a) 1v1.

Where I felt you might be lacking penetration is the DLF on support (which I see you've switched), WBIB (which makes them too risk averse in the final third, aka, no penetration and lots of blocked and low quality shots) and, oddly, the shorter passing. 

It's counter intuitive, but I've personally found that as long as player roles and width keeps them within a short space, 'shorter passing' is unnecessary.  They'll naturally do it just based on who's available.  Adding shorter passing can sometimes be overkill and maybe even hurt possession rather than help - if you don't have players close enough together, they might just hoof it under pressure.  Keeping a mixed passing range allows them to hit a longer pass when it's on (more penetration), but if there's players nearby they keep it short and simple. 

Also, having the mentality at balanced means that players will generally look for the safe pass (keeping possession) and only hitting those killer balls when they're really on, whereas positive is more about risk taking so players are more likely to hit lower percentage, higher risk passes that will more often lose possession.  That also allows you to give your players more aggressive roles which get them into more advanced and dangerous positions, knowing that they're less likely to lose possession in a silly way.  This brings you more penetration while retaining possession and being generally solid defensively - the other team can't score if they don't have the ball!  Plus, even if you do, you still have the DLP and two CBs back to cover.

[webb1999]

Thank you both that's really helpful. So how does this look with the instructions? is there any improvements?  I've tried to revert back to a tikka taka style. 

a few questions of point really, would I be better to play with a higher line of engagement? 

 

Also would playing with a Raumdeuter on the right make sense? Mitogo  has the stats to do it, but would it work in this tactic?

Also if I had 3 attack duties in the final third  would that be to much, and not give a lot of support going back

[Experienced Defender]

18 minutes ago, webb1999 said:

LWB on support and mezzala on attack would make a lot more sense and improve the overall balance of the setup IMHO. Basically a swap of duties between the mezzala and WB on the left.

No need to use pass into space all the time. Instead, use it on a situational basis, i.e. in those situations/matches when it can really make sense. 

The same goes for attacking width. Start with default and only tweak it as you see fit. 

In short: be flexible and do not insist on things that are not of vital importance for a tactic. The fewer instructions you start with, the more easily you can see what tweaks you possibly need to make in the process. 

[CARRERA]

59 minutes ago, webb1999 said:

I think CF on attack will be too isolated, so i would make him a support duty or pick a DLF with attack duty, also you want your IF on the right flank to create space by overlapping your striker (which requires a duty change on your striker). Also your left WB on attack will go for cross after cross, so if you dont like that make him a support duty and add overlap left TI.

If you look for a even more dominant style of football, you can add higher line of engagement and prevent short GK distribution.

Edited April 12, 2021 by CARRERA

[webb1999]

52 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

LWB on support and mezzala on attack would make a lot more sense and improve the overall balance of the setup IMHO. Basically a swap of duties between the mezzala and WB on the left.

No need to use pass into space all the time. Instead, use it on a situational basis, i.e. in those situations/matches when it can really make sense. 

The same goes for attacking width. Start with default and only tweak it as you see fit. 

In short: be flexible and do not insist on things that are not of vital importance for a tactic. The fewer instructions you start with, the more easily you can see what tweaks you possibly need to make in the process. 

Ok great that's very good advice, thank you, essentially make it as simple as possible, and then adapt as I see fit

[webb1999]

22 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

I think CF on attack will be too isolated, so i would make him a support duty or pick a DLF with attack duty, also you want your IF on the right flank to create space by overlapping your striker (which requires a duty change on your striker). Also your left WB on attack will go for cross after cross, so if you dont like that make him a support duty and add overlap left TI.

If you look for a even more dominant style of football, you can add higher line of engagement and prevent short GK distribution.

Okay great Thank you, I have changed over the WB to  S and the Mezzala on attack thanks to the Experienced Defender. So Attacker wise would it be suitable to go for either CF support, DLF on attack, I or a F9 depending on personal? 

[Yellowbucket58]

9 hours ago, webb1999 said:

Okay great Thank you, I have changed over the WB to  S and the Mezzala on attack thanks to the Experienced Defender. So Attacker wise would it be suitable to go for either CF support, DLF on attack, I or a F9 depending on personal? 

I've found the CF on support to be quite good at linking the midfield with the IF/IW in a 4-3-3. Currently running a tactic really similar to yours and my CF has been my best player by far in terms of goal scoring and one of best in terms of chances created. The CF in my team happens to be Messi which has PPMs and attributes that suits a F9 style of play which I find the CF(s) seems to provide. I haven't really gotten the F9 to work properly as I don't really like the runs the role makes as well as the lack of participation in the build up play. I'm sure the role works fine but I've personally haven't had much success with it. 

[webb1999]

Just now, Yellowbucket58 said:

I've found the CF on support to be quite good at linking the midfield with the IF/IW in a 4-3-3. Currently running a tactic really similar to yours and my CF has been my best player by far in terms of goal scoring and one of best in terms of chances created. The CF in my team happens to be Messi which has PPMs and attributes that suits a F9 style of play which I find the CF(s) seems to provide. I haven't really gotten the F9 to work properly as I don't really like the runs the role makes as well as the lack of participation in the build up play. I'm sure the role works fine but I've personally haven't had much success with it. 

okay great thank you for the advice I agree I cant seem to get the f9 to work well