Help needed scoring and creating

[Monsieur-Beev]

Hey guys first time posting here but really need some help with may tactics. I won the league and CL in season 1 after which martial handed in a transfer request and left for Madrid for 90m. I replaced him with Kane for 70m and brought in Ruben Neves but Kane has been terrible averaging 6.5 ratings with a lot of 6.3's and I can't help but feel it's my tactics. I've attached my two main tactics any help would be really appreciated !

I have the best defence in the league and I'm sat in second place but lowscoring games and a lack of clear cut chances and goals scored makes me think my tactic just isn't doing the business. 

 

[frukox]

7 minutes ago, Monsieur-Beev said:

Hey guys first time posting here but really need some help with may tactics. I won the league and CL in season 1 after which martial handed in a transfer request and left for Madrid for 90m. I replaced him with Kane for 70m and brought in Ruben Neves but Kane has been terrible averaging 6.5 ratings with a lot of 6.3's and I can't help but feel it's my tactics. I've attached my two main tactics any help would be really appreciated !

I have the best defence in the league and I'm sat in second place but lowscoring games and a lack of clear cut chances and goals scored makes me think my tactic just isn't doing the business. 

 

4-2-3-1:

TIs and role-duty distribution don't go hand in hand here. Play for Setpieces mean players intentionally try to take the ball to areas near the corner flag to get a free kick or a corner which is something you shouldn't need in a possession tactic.

Another thing that should be removed is Regroup and Counter TI. Regroup tells your players to stand off and retreat into a defensive shape immediately. However, do you really need to do that when you have a lot of players in the final third when trying to play a possession game. Counter is also something you should watch carefully. If you can't find space during transitions, unticking it would be better. 

Why do you specifically instruct your GK to distribute to FBs and CDs while you already instruct to play out of defence?

Your out of possession TIs are also a bit aggressive. If you find your players lose their markers and lose their defensive shape easily untick Tighter Marking and reduce closing down intensity.

When it comes to your roles, there are problems in attacking four and the right flank. That area lacks proper support.

Do you find two BPDs losing possession too much unnecessarily. Then, change one of them into a simple CDD.

4-1-2-3:

Again the same problems with 4-2-3-1 as to in-transition and out-of-possession TIs. 

Do you need two playmakers in the midfield? Don't they pass to each other more than you'd like? I'd change your DLPD into a typical DMS to properly support attacking transitions. Defend duty doesn't get into the area in front of the defence. Adding a presence there could help you find an extra man there while defensively he will be in a position to recycle possession and execute switches of play whenever it's needed. Neves is definitely capable of that. 

[Monsieur-Beev]

14 minutes ago, frukox said:

4-2-3-1:

TIs and role-duty distribution don't go hand in hand here. Play for Setpieces mean players intentionally try to take the ball to areas near the corner flag to get a free kick or a corner which is something you shouldn't need in a possession tactic.

Another thing that should be removed is Regroup and Counter TI. Regroup tells your players to stand off and retreat into a defensive shape immediately. However, do you really need to do that when you have a lot of players in the final third when trying to play a possession game. Counter is also something you should watch carefully. If you can't find space during transitions, unticking it would be better. 

Why do you specifically instruct your GK to distribute to FBs and CDs while you already instruct to play out of defence?

Your out of possession TIs are also a bit aggressive. If you find your players lose their markers and lose their defensive shape easily untick Tighter Marking and reduce closing down intensity.

When it comes to your roles, there are problems in attacking four and the right flank. That area lacks proper support.

Do you find two BPDs losing possession too much unnecessarily. Then, change one of them into a simple CDD.

4-1-2-3:

Again the same problems with 4-2-3-1 as to in-transition and out-of-possession TIs. 

Do you need two playmakers in the midfield? Don't they pass to each other more than you'd like? I'd change your DLPD into a typical DMS to properly support attacking transitions. Defend duty doesn't get into the area in front of the defence. Adding a presence there could help you find an extra man there while defensively he will be in a position to recycle possession and execute switches of play whenever it's needed. Neves is definitely capable of that. 

Thanks so much for the tips ! 

Any suggestions as to why I can't get Kane firing ? I'm not sure if it's role selection but he just doesn't seem to have an impact other than the odd scrappy finish or penalty, is it the selection of roles up front or is he just the wrong man for my team?

[frukox]

23 minutes ago, Monsieur-Beev said:

Thanks so much for the tips ! 

Any suggestions as to why I can't get Kane firing ? I'm not sure if it's role selection but he just doesn't seem to have an impact other than the odd scrappy finish or penalty, is it the selection of roles up front or is he just the wrong man for my team?

I looked at Kane's profile on FM21. He's slow. He can't get behind a defensive line but he's really intelligent. You can use him behind a main striker as a creator. I'd use him as an AM on support on 4-2-3-1. 

[Monsieur-Beev]

6 minutes ago, frukox said:

I looked at Kane's profile on FM21. He's slow. He can't get behind a defensive line but he's really intelligent. You can use him behind a main striker as a creator. I'd use him as an AM on support on 4-2-3-1. 

I hadn't thought about using him as a 10, that's something I'll definitely try out. Does his lack of pace mean in the 433 I should use him as a DLF support or even a false 9? 

Sorry for all the questions but I normally go for pacey strikers, I just decided I wanted to try a more technical style of play than balls in behind to run on to.

[frukox]

14 minutes ago, Monsieur-Beev said:

I hadn't thought about using him as a 10, that's something I'll definitely try out. Does his lack of pace mean in the 433 I should use him as a DLF support or even a false 9? 

Sorry for all the questions but I normally go for pacey strikers, I just decided I wanted to try a more technical style of play than balls in behind to run on to.

PFS, DLFS or F9(doubtful) but be careful with those roles he may be too deep to support the inside forwards if you can't properly set the tempo or support around him.

Edited February 13, 2021 by frukox

[Monsieur-Beev]

22 minutes ago, frukox said:

PFS, DLFS or F9(doubtful) but be careful with those roles he may be too deep to support the inside forwards if you can't properly set the tempo or support around him.

Awesome thanks for all the tips I'll test them out and let you know how I get on !

[plcarlos]

Albeit in a different team and setup, Kane has played and scored for me as a DLF-S, DLF-A.

He's also fed faster Strikers when I played him as an AMC, or AML (IF-S), (IMO, also another option for you with Rashford\Greenwood)

He's not really quited to a role that requires Pace, or dribbling, as it's not his strong suit. Personally - and based heavliy on his profile,  I want Kane to be on the move (Roaming), linking up play, playing others in and getting on the end of crosses (Pick up ball, feed winger\full-back and run into box) etc.

In your 4231, you have 3 out of your attacking 4 players trying to score - Who's creating for them?

[Experienced Defender]

Your second tactic (433dm wide) makes a lot more sense than the first one (4231) in terms of roles and duties, so I would discard the 4231 and focus solely on improving the 433. 

If you want more goal-scoring contribution from Kane, then do not pair him with a RMD, to begin with the most obvious. Because when you use a RMD in your setup, it's logical that he would be supposed to be the main goal threat (rather than the striker).

In case you don't want to get rid of the RMD but still want Kane firing, then simply play him (Kane) as the RMD and someone else as the DLF up front. 

Next: CWB as a role makes a lot more sense in narrow systems, where he can benefit from controlling the entire flank on his own. Therefore, I would suggest changing the role into a regular WB on support duty. 

Next: Not sure that you need 2 playmakers in such a close vicinity (referring to the DLP and AP of course). But even if you - for whatever reason - want to retain both of them, then you should at least avoid playing both CBs in the BPD role. Because what's the point of having a playmaker (or even 2 in this case) in the midfield when you use 2 BPDs - who tend to play long(ish) adventurous passes on a regular basis and thus skip the midfield - behind those playmakers? Which makes even less sense when you also use the Play out of defence TI. The same goes for the SK on attack duty. 

An instruction such as tight marking makes little (if any) sense in a tactical style like yours (including the formation itself). Because tight marking suits more defensive styles of play with a bottom-heavy formation and compact low block. 

Last but not least, the Regroup also makes no sense in an otherwise so aggressive and attack-minded tactic like yours. Tactical contradictions are never good.

[woland]

On 13/02/2021 at 17:28, Experienced Defender said:

An instruction such as tight marking makes little (if any) sense in a tactical style like yours (including the formation itself). Because tight marking suits more defensive styles of play with a bottom-heavy formation and compact low block. 

Could you please explain a little why tight marking TI makes no much sense in possession style football? And why it doesnt suit to 433?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, woland said:

Could you please explain a little why tight marking TI makes no much sense in possession style football?

Not just possession but any attack-minded style of play. Because aggressive player-oriented defensive instructions - tight marking and/or hard tackling - work best when applied within a compact low block, where players can readily help each other in defense, so when one player misses a tackle, his nearby teammates are close enough to cover for his mistake. You draw opposition players into your compact defensive shell and then go aggressively on them to win the ball and launch a counter. 

On the other hand, attack-minded styles play with higher lines and rely more on aggressive pressing - which is ball-oriented and can be made aggressive by a high team mentality, and not necessarily the pressing urgency TI. You can use tight marking and/or hard tackling even in these aggressive attack-minded styles if your players are good enough to offset the defensive risk, but the question is do you really need to use such instructions in a tactical style that inherently creates more space for the opposition to potentially take advantage of via counter-attacks. 

Btw, marking as part of defending is always applied, not only when it's set to be "tight". The same goes for tackling - players make tackles not only when the tackling instruction is set to "hard". 

1 hour ago, woland said:

And why it doesnt suit to 433?

It can be used in any formation if you are eager to use it, but is less risky and more likely to succeed when applied within a compact defensive shape, which is logically easier to be achieved in bottom-heavy formations.