How to configure teams from a continental competition to qualify or "fall" to another one.

[Champol]

Hi, I'm customizing the Northamerican club competitions to mimic the format of the UEFA Champions League and Europa League, but I'm facing many complex points:

The intended format is the following:

• The top 24 teams qualify directly to the Champions League group stage.
• The 16 next teams go through a playoff where 8 qualify to the Champions League, and the remaining 8 go to the "NA League" (Europa League analogue).
• There, these 8 teams join 40 teams that go through a group stage (12 groups).
• In both tournaments, the top 2 teams of each group qualify to the respective play-offs stage.
• But, in addition, the 3rd team of each group in the Champions League "falls" into the play-offs of the NA League, joining the 24 teams that qualified there.

Is there a recipe for this? Or is this a recipe for disaster?
The initial 16-teams playoffs should be part of one of these competitions, or an independent competition?
I guess that, if FM could do it for Europe, it should be possible, but I'm not sure which options to use and take advantage of.

Thanks a lot!

[Xavier Lukhas]

As far as I know, I don't know of anyone who figured out how it works. IIRC, @Carlito85 made it work... by copying the original rules verbatim. So he made it work without knowing why it works the way it does.

[Carlito85]

@Champol For a 3rd placed Champions League group stage team to drop into another competition I used the following qualifying rules:

- Set Continental Cup, UEFA Europa League, Top Position = 2, Bottom Position = 2, Continental Cup Seeding = 6
- Set Continental Cup, Top Position = 3, Bottom Position = 3

For a 4th placed group stage team to drop into another competition it was the following qualifying rules:

- Set Continental Cup, UEFA Europa League, Top Position = 3, Bottom Position = 3, Continental Cup Seeding = 6
- Set Continental Cup, Top Position = 4, Bottom Position = 4

To have teams in qualifying rounds drop into another competition I used the following fate actions:

- Set Continental Cup, Competition Name (i.e. UEFA Europa League), Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition
(the higher the number the earlier they will enter that competition so 0 is the highest seed and the latest they will enter)
- Qualify Team For Competition, Competition Name, Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition, Qualification Type = Hidden

[olivier95160]

8 hours ago, Carlito85 said:

@Champol For a 3rd placed Champions League group stage team to drop into another competition I used the following qualifying rules:

- Set Continental Cup, UEFA Europa League, Top Position = 2, Bottom Position = 2, Continental Cup Seeding = 6
- Set Continental Cup, Top Position = 3, Bottom Position = 3

For a 4th placed group stage team to drop into another competition it was the following qualifying rules:

- Set Continental Cup, UEFA Europa League, Top Position = 3, Bottom Position = 3, Continental Cup Seeding = 6
- Set Continental Cup, Top Position = 4, Bottom Position = 4

To have teams in qualifying rounds drop into another competition I used the following fate actions:

- Set Continental Cup, Competition Name (i.e. UEFA Europa League), Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition
(the higher the number the earlier they will enter that competition so 0 is the highest seed and the latest they will enter)
- Qualify Team For Competition, Competition Name, Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition, Qualification Type = Hidden

Sorry but i'm not sure how you set up the 3rd option. I have a round of qualifiers in Champions League and I'd like losers from this round to get qualified for Europa League Group Stage. Can you screenshot your Fate Actions in Champions League qualifying round + Fate Action Europa League Qualifying Round + Teams in Group Stage of Europa League ?

Or maybe send your file here please

[Champol]

Thank you very much! That worked
I didn't understand at first how to tell the game I wanted the 3rd team only, and your trick worked: Top position = 2, Bottom position = 2, which correspond to the team in the 3rd position only.

@Carlitos85 May I ask you more questions related to competition rules?
If I need the best teams (lowest seeds) to enter a stage of the competition, which option do I need to use for adding teams?
I tried with "Best teams in Comp", but it threw another error and could not test it.
I also wanna try with "Lowest seeded teams", but with the "reverse the order of teams in this list" option selected.

Do you know which works better? Thanks!

 

[Champol]

1 hour ago, olivier95160 said:

Sorry but i'm not sure how you set up the 3rd option. I have a round of qualifiers in Champions League and I'd like losers from this round to get qualified for Europa League Group Stage. Can you screenshot your Fate Actions in Champions League qualifying round + Fate Action Europa League Qualifying Round + Teams in Group Stage of Europa League ?

Or maybe send your file here please

I had to undo my changes, but when I manage to make them work again I'll send you a screenshot of how I did it.
But in short, what I plan to do is:

Stage (group stage) > League settings (all groups) > Qualification Rules > Qualification Rules (at the bottom of the page)
Here, I added 2 sections:

For the first 2 teams:

• Number of top places: 2
• Next stage - Main stage name: Eight final (you have to provide the correct name you assigned to the next stage)

For the 3rd team:

• Top position: 2 (because 0 is 1st, so 2 is 3rd)
• Bottom position: 2
• Next stage - Main stage name: First round (or the name you used)
• Next stage - Competition: Europa League (i guess)
• Teams "drop" instead of "qualify" for this stage: YES

Hope it works!

Edited February 10, 2021 by Champol

[olivier95160]

19 minutes ago, Champol said:

I had to undo my changes, but when I manage to make them work again I'll send you a screenshot of how I did it.
But in short, what I plan to do is:

Stage (group stage) > League settings (all groups) > Qualification Rules > Qualification Rules (at the bottom of the page)
Here, I added 2 sections:

For the first 2 teams:

• Number of top places: 2
• Next stage - Main stage name: Eight final (you have to provide the correct name you assigned to the next stage)

For the 3rd team:

• Top position: 2 (because 0 is 1st, so 2 is 3rd)
• Bottom position: 2
• Next stage - Main stage name: First round (or the name you used)
• Next stage - Competition: Europa League (i guess)
• Teams "drop" instead of "qualify" for this stage: YES

Hope it works!

My question was more likely with losing teams from Champions League Qualifications go to Europa League Group Stage, i can't make that work...

[Champol]

17 minutes ago, olivier95160 said:

My question was more likely with losing teams from Champions League Qualifications go to Europa League Group Stage, i can't make that work...

Ohh I see!
I'm also making something like that for my competition, but it's very hard to make it work.

A trick I did was to add a hidden stage (stage 0) to the Europa League, before the group stage, so the game doesn't create the groups before the Champions League qualifications have occurred.

Then, in the "Teams" section from the Europa League, I added "teams qualified from other comp" or something like that, and I had to do something similar in the CL qualifications: qualify or "drop" the losing teams to the group stage of the Europa League (in the "fate" section).
But I haven't managed to make everything work together, so I may need to review this later.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Champol

[Carlito85]

2 hours ago, olivier95160 said:

Sorry but i'm not sure how you set up the 3rd option. I have a round of qualifiers in Champions League and I'd like losers from this round to get qualified for Europa League Group Stage. Can you screenshot your Fate Actions in Champions League qualifying round + Fate Action Europa League Qualifying Round + Teams in Group Stage of Europa League ?

Or maybe send your file here please

Everything I wrote down was for the Champions League, but I should have also added the Europa League/UEFA Cup instructions. Here's what I used to grab those teams dropping out of UCL:

In the Europa League rules, go to the stage you want to grab the UCL teams and do the following
Requirements = Stage number from the Champions League round, Competition Name = UEFA Champions League

Teams Tab
This is if you want losing teams from a qualifying round
- Get Qualified Teams From Stage, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League), Main Stage Name (the name of the Europa League round the losing teams are joining)

This is if you want 3rd placed teams from the group stage
- Get League Stage Teams, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League),
Top & Bottom Position = 2

[olivier95160]

So i set up the first line in bold here in Champions League Fate Action right ?

11 hours ago, Carlito85 said:

Set Continental Cup, Competition Name (i.e. UEFA Europa League), Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition
(the higher the number the earlier they will enter that competition so 0 is the highest seed and the latest they will enter)
- Qualify Team For Competition, Competition Name, Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition, Qualification Type = Hidden

And then i add what you wrote for Europa League?

[Carlito85]

1 hour ago, Champol said:

Thank you very much! That worked
I didn't understand at first how to tell the game I wanted the 3rd team only, and your trick worked: Top position = 2, Bottom position = 2, which correspond to the team in the 3rd position only.

@Carlitos85 May I ask you more questions related to competition rules?
If I need the best teams (lowest seeds) to enter a stage of the competition, which option do I need to use for adding teams?
I tried with "Best teams in Comp", but it threw another error and could not test it.
I also wanna try with "Lowest seeded teams", but with the "reverse the order of teams in this list" option selected.

Do you know which works better? Thanks!

 

Happy to help where I can.

If you're wanting to grab the best teams (I'm assuming the likes of Barcelona, Liverpool etc?) their seeding would likely be 0. The instruction I normally run with in the Teams tab of the round they're joining at is as follows:

Get Qualified Teams For Comp, Seeding Of Qualified Teams = 0, Maximum Number Of Teams

  

3 minutes ago, olivier95160 said:

So i set up the first line in bold here in Champions League Fate Action right ?

And then i add what you wrote for Europa League?

@olivier95160

Yeah, apply those first 2 lines in bold to the Champions League fate actions, then apply the Europa League instructions in whichever round you want to grab those teams in.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Carlito85

[olivier95160]

10 minutes ago, Carlito85 said:

Yeah, apply those first 2 lines in bold to the Champions League fate actions, then apply the Europa League instructions in whichever round you want to grab those teams in.

In the second line, the Competition Name is Europa League and Round Name is the name of the round i qualify them to ?

What about Continental Cup Seeding ? What does that mean ? I just want the teams to be qualified for the competition, not to be top seed for example

 

Do you think it'd work like this ?

Edited February 10, 2021 by olivier95160

[Carlito85]

23 minutes ago, olivier95160 said:

In the second line, the Competition Name is Europa League and Round Name is the name of the round i qualify them to ?

What about Continental Cup Seeding ? What does that mean ? I just want the teams to be qualified for the competition, not to be top seed for example

 

Do you think it'd work like this ?

I think it would have to be the losing team that qualifies, not the winning team?

The seeding is basically the round they come in at and is linked to the Teams tab under Continent where seeding is set for each competition (i.e. 4 teams from Nations 1-4 at seed 0 for UCL).

For example in my file I have a playoff round in the Europa League before the group stage that the losing UCL teams would drop into. That would make those teams a seed of 0 (0 being the latest new teams will join the competition) as all the best teams join in that round. I'm not sure what the second line consisting of 3, 3, 6 from the Champions League is for but I know it has to be used or it won't work properly.

[olivier95160]

15 minutes ago, Carlito85 said:

I think it would have to be the losing team that qualifies, not the winning team?

The seeding is basically the round they come in at and is linked to the Teams tab under Continent where seeding is set for each competition (i.e. 4 teams from Nations 1-4 at seed 0 for UCL).

For example in my file I have a playoff round in the Europa League before the group stage that the losing UCL teams would drop into. That would make those teams a seed of 0 (0 being the latest new teams will join the competition) as all the best teams join in that round. I'm not sure what the second line consisting of 3, 3, 6 from the Champions League is for but I know it has to be used or it won't work properly.

Maybe i haven't understood this well but i can't make it functionnal... I have an error message telling me there are not enough teams for Group Stage of Europa League, found 0 team, required 40 which is weird

Would you mind have a look at the file and tell me what's wrong with it ?

Project_WSL_Advanced 3.fmf

Edited February 10, 2021 by olivier95160

[L55DS]

I've fixed the issue and attached the verified file here. Haven't checked if it runs properly in-game. 

Stage numbers are all important with things like this. 

test.fmf

[Champol]

20 hours ago, Carlito85 said:

@Champol For a 3rd placed Champions League group stage team to drop into another competition I used the following qualifying rules:

- Set Continental Cup, UEFA Europa League, Top Position = 2, Bottom Position = 2, Continental Cup Seeding = 6
- Set Continental Cup, Top Position = 3, Bottom Position = 3
 

Hola @Carlitos85

Hey, I though I had this working, but I'm facing a wall once again.

I want the teams in 3rd position in my group stage of the "Champions League" to drop to the First round of the knock-out stage of the "Europa League" ("Kipeba" in my game), where they will join 24 more teams.

Following what you said, in my Champions League > Group Stage > Qualification Rules, I did the following:

And in the Europa League (Kipeba) > Stage 1 ("First Round") > Teams, I did this:

But I don't get it to work. I've tried more things, like using "Get Qualified Teams For Comp", but it was taking teams that had already been eliminated in the group stage.
So I still don't know where the problem is. Do you have any clue?

Thanks!

Edited February 11, 2021 by Champol

[Carlito85]

1 hour ago, Champol said:

Hola @Carlitos85

Hey, I though I had this working, but I'm facing a wall once again.

I want the teams in 3rd position in my group stage of the "Champions League" to drop to the First round of the knock-out stage of the "Europa League" ("Kipeba" in my game), where they will join 24 more teams.

Following what you said, in my Champions League > Group Stage > Qualification Rules, I did the following:

And in the Europa League (Kipeba) > Stage 1 ("First Round") > Teams, I did this:

But I don't get it to work. I've tried more things, like using "Get Qualified Teams For Comp", but it was taking teams that had already been eliminated in the group stage.
So I still don't know where the problem is. Do you have any clue?

Thanks!

This is if you want 3rd placed teams from the group stage
- Get League Stage Teams, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League),
Top & Bottom Position = 2

Also make sure that the fixture dates line up with each other properly. For example my Champions League group stage takes place from September - December, while the first round of the Europa League will take place in September. It may be in your case that the group stage is finishing after the Europa League first round has already been scheduled to take place.

[olivier95160]

14 hours ago, L55DS said:

I've fixed the issue and attached the verified file here. Haven't checked if it runs properly in-game. 

Stage numbers are all important with things like this. 

test.fmf 27.13 kB · 1 download

Hi, I ran this on the game but i have some bugs maybe. The teams who won on extra time aren't qualified to Group Stage... It is said "Winners in Qualifying Round of Champions League but they're not sent to Group Stage... Does someone has the answer ? @Carlito85 maybe ?

Edited February 11, 2021 by olivier95160

[L55DS]

As I said I didn't test it in game. Check your Champions League stage 1 inputs (teams). The top of that list should be 'Get qualified teams from stage' like so:

[olivier95160]

29 minutes ago, L55DS said:

As I said I didn't test it in game. Check your Champions League stage 1 inputs (teams). The top of that list should be 'Get qualified teams from stage' like so:

yeah i forgot to change this, sorry for the inconvenience

[Champol]

I finally managed to make everything work! Thank you very much for your help.

The teams that lose the knockout stage drop into the lower Continental Cup, and the teams in 3rd place in the group stage also drop to the lower Continental Cup just for the playoffs stage.

I will post the final recipe once I'm sure it works, so anyone who find this post can mimic it, but first I must be sure everything else works.

I'm now just facing an error where an extra team from Mexico inexplicably joins the Continental Cup way before the expected date, which leaves the tournament with 41 teams instead of 40 leaving a mess. I hope it's something I can fix once I modify Mexico competitions.

 

One final question: In advanced mode, can I change many competitions at once? For example: Mexico rules, USA rules, Continental rules, etc., Or do I need to do it in separate editor files?

Edited February 12, 2021 by Champol
orthography

[L55DS]

3 hours ago, Champol said:

I finally managed to make everything work! Thank you very much for your help.

The teams that lose the knockout stage drop into the lower Continental Cup, and the teams in 3rd place in the group stage also drop to the lower Continental Cup just for the playoffs stage.

I will post the final recipe once I'm sure it works, so anyone who find this post can mimic it, but first I must be sure everything else works.

I'm now just facing an error where an extra team from Mexico inexplicably joins the Continental Cup way before the expected date, which leaves the tournament with 41 teams instead of 40 leaving a mess. I hope it's something I can fix once I modify Mexico competitions.

 

One final question: In advanced mode, can I change many competitions at once? For example: Mexico rules, USA rules, Continental rules, etc., Or do I need to do it in separate editor files?

 

My answer to this is do them all in separate files which you load together. As long as you never change the same thing in multiple files you should be ok. In my experience merging files causes issues, but there may well be a better way and I'm all ears if there is. 

[olivier95160]

On 12/02/2021 at 19:42, L55DS said:

 

My answer to this is do them all in separate files which you load together. As long as you never change the same thing in multiple files you should be ok. In my experience merging files causes issues, but there may well be a better way and I'm all ears if there is. 

Hi, sorry to reuse this topic but i was wondering how to give top club in group stage top seed and 2nd place get unseeded for next round ? Just like actual Champions League. Any ideas ?

[Carlito85]

On 16/03/2021 at 14:37, olivier95160 said:

Hi, sorry to reuse this topic but i was wondering how to give top club in group stage top seed and 2nd place get unseeded for next round ? Just like actual Champions League. Any ideas ?

Not too sure on that one but as an alternative it may be possible to apply something similar via team mapping (i.e. the winner of group A plays the runner-up in group B etc)

[olivier95160]

On 17/03/2021 at 18:03, Carlito85 said:

Not too sure on that one but as an alternative it may be possible to apply something similar via team mapping (i.e. the winner of group A plays the runner-up in group B etc)

i tried to give a seed to 1st place teams but it doesn't seem it's working...

[Carlito85]

5 hours ago, olivier95160 said:

i tried to give a seed to 1st place teams but it doesn't seem it's working...

I had a quick look through the editor but I couldn't find anything that will let you apply seeds to specific teams. I was thinking it would be in the league fates (if you're doing a group stage) but there wasn't anything of note in there unfortunately. I think team mapping may be your best option.

By the way I just saw in one of the pics posted earlier in the thread that "Teams Drop Instead of Qualify For This Stage" is now an option. Will be a nice addition if that shows up in the competition rules and news items.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Carlito85

[olivier95160]

I'll try different options to see how to make it work. I hope to find something working soon. 

If not I'll stick to this version and hope to get a 2nd team 😂

[olivier95160]

On 19/03/2021 at 00:32, Carlito85 said:

I had a quick look through the editor but I couldn't find anything that will let you apply seeds to specific teams. I was thinking it would be in the league fates (if you're doing a group stage) but there wasn't anything of note in there unfortunately. I think team mapping may be your best option.

By the way I just saw in one of the pics posted earlier in the thread that "Teams Drop Instead of Qualify For This Stage" is now an option. Will be a nice addition if that shows up in the competition rules and news items.

Hi mate, i tried to create a team mapping but i can't make it work properly... have you ever suceecded to make one ?

[Carlito85]

1 hour ago, olivier95160 said:

Hi mate, i tried to create a team mapping but i can't make it work properly... have you ever suceecded to make one ?

Personally I've never used it so it's not something I'm too clued up on. There are a few columns in there which look straight forward such as the round name and position from previous stage (if you're grabbing teams from a group stage). Not sure what you'd need to put for the team index number or the cup tie index number though.

[Supermercado99]

Have followed the advice above and the file is validating, but when the game reaches the round in the secondary competition that the teams are supposed to transfer into it just leaves blank spaces that cause the competition not to complete.

Note the 16 teams that have come through as third round winners, then empty spaces for everyone else.

Following advice in this thread I've set the teams to cross over via this method:

- Set Continental Cup, Competition Name (i.e. UEFA Europa League), Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition
(the higher the number the earlier they will enter that competition so 0 is the highest seed and the latest they will enter)
- Qualify Team For Competition, Competition Name, Round Name in that Competition, Losing Team, Continental Cup Seeding for Competition, Qualification Type = Hidden

And to pull into the second competition like this:

- Get Qualified Teams From African Competitions Final.fmfStage, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League), Main Stage Name (the name of the Europa League round the losing teams are joining)

But had the same problem trying it with 'add team to stage' (which is the method in the default file) which suggests to me there's something small that I'm doing wrong and is blocking the right teams from loading. Anyone have an idea from the attached file, or suggestions from when similar happened to them?

[Slyfiskmand]

On 10/02/2021 at 16:17, Carlito85 said:

Everything I wrote down was for the Champions League, but I should have also added the Europa League/UEFA Cup instructions. Here's what I used to grab those teams dropping out of UCL:

In the Europa League rules, go to the stage you want to grab the UCL teams and do the following
Requirements = Stage number from the Champions League round, Competition Name = UEFA Champions League

Teams Tab
This is if you want losing teams from a qualifying round
- Get Qualified Teams From Stage, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League), Main Stage Name (the name of the Europa League round the losing teams are joining)

This is if you want 3rd placed teams from the group stage
- Get League Stage Teams, Competition = UEFA Champions League, Maximum Number Of Teams (However many losing teams), Stage Number (from UEFA Champions League),
Top & Bottom Position = 2

Hi @Carlito85, quick question if I may, appreciate this thread is a few years old.

Exact same scenario whereas losing teams from CL joing the Europa League group stage. 

 

What if, I want all of the remaining losing teams from the CL qualifying stage to drop into the EL? 

In the sense that the EL does not have any teams, it gets all its teams from the CL dropouts. 

 

How would I do this? 

[themodelcitizen]

There's a less clean way where you could just take the secondary competition, under "teams" tell it to "ignore" the 16 "best teams in competition" for the Champions league, and then to get 8 "best teams in competition". This would be for if the CL went to last 16, and you wanted the 8 third place teams to fall down. Ranking levels need to be working for your CL for this to work.

This isn't as ideal because the game won't necessarily "know" that you're dropping down to the EL, it will just think you're eliminated from the CL. Not sure if that affects Board expectations or anything, but with the qualifying type rules discussed above instead, you can at least tell the game/your Board that you still have continental football left even though you finished third.

[Slyfiskmand]

1 hour ago, themodelcitizen said:

There's a less clean way where you could just take the secondary competition, under "teams" tell it to "ignore" the 16 "best teams in competition" for the Champions league, and then to get 8 "best teams in competition". This would be for if the CL went to last 16, and you wanted the 8 third place teams to fall down. Ranking levels need to be working for your CL for this to work.

This isn't as ideal because the game won't necessarily "know" that you're dropping down to the EL, it will just think you're eliminated from the CL. Not sure if that affects Board expectations or anything, but with the qualifying type rules discussed above instead, you can at least tell the game/your Board that you still have continental football left even though you finished third.

Thanks bud! Sounds complicated haha! But I'll give it a go!