Newly promoted side, setting up the 4141

[energumene]

Hello everybody,

First I want to apologize, i'm French so I dont speak fluent English...

My Blackburn side got promoted to Premier League and i'm predicted 20th. My first thought is I'll very often be facing better sides than mine, way much better sometimes when it comes to the Big 4/5. 

So I want to set up a 4141, solid at the back, capable of absorbing the pressure from the opponent, and being lethal at fast counter-attacking. I will sit deeper, with less pressing, to force the opponent to commit more players upfront, then win the ball back in my defensive third and go as fast as we can to their defensive third.

That's the first point. Second thought : I don't want to alter my players individual mentality so i'll start by default, with the Standard Mentality. If I change it later, it surely will be by decreasing it - because I have a 20th predicted side, tells a lot about the quality of my team (even though I signed some decent players as Phil Jones, Lovro Majer, Jon Flanagan or Jay Da Silva).

But before choosing my roles and duties I want to check my players PPM. Because i feel - imho, maybe i'm wrong - that in MF 20 PPMs have a strong influence on the players behaviour. As a matter of fact, the PPMs have the priority on the individual instructions (for example a wing who likes to cut inside WILL cut inside even if you instructs him not to and stay wide), so my third thought in this project is that I want to align players with the "good" PPMs, the ones that fit with my tactical idea (once again, to absorb pressure and fast counter-attack).

As I also want to use the best players I have for my starting eleven, lets give you a quick insight of these pretenders :

 

GK

Pontus Dahlberg (Avoid using weaker foot, Make quick throws to start counter-attacks)

CDs

Darragh Lenihan (Dives into tackle, Likes to switch ball to other flank)

Phil Jones (Dives into tackle)

Christian Burgess (Tries long passes, Play out of defence)

LBs

Jay Da Silva (Cuts inside from both wings)

Derrick Williams (Runs with ball often, Pass instead of shoot)

RBs

Jon Flanagan (Dives into tackle)

Ryan Nyambe (Possesses long flat throws)

DMs

Corry Evans (Play short simple passes, Comes deep to get the ball)

Lewis Travis (Tries killer balls often, Dives into tackles, Winds up opponents)

CMs

Lewis Holtby (Plays one-twos, Gets crowd going, Cuts inside from right wing)

Lovro Majer (Runs with ball through the center, Gets forward whenever possible, Tries killer balls often, Shoots from distance, Curls ball)

Bradley Dack (Shoots from distance, Places shots, Arrives late in opponent's area, Runs with ball often) 

WMs

Elliott Bennett (Runs with ball down right wing)

Adam Armstrong (Likes to try to beat the offside trap, Likes to lob the keeper, Knocks ball past opponent, Runs with ball often)

Joe Rothwell (Gets forward whenever possible, Runs with ball through the center, Knocks ball past opponent, Dwells on ball, Runs with ball often)

STs

Sean Maguire (Runs with ball down right wing, Moves into channels, Comes deep to get ball, Knocks ball past opponent)

Daniel Butterworth (None)

 

I highlighted the traits that seems to fit with my tactical project. That is to say, forward movements with and off the ball, long range passing abilities, and the willing to play fast as soon as we get the ball back. Concerning my striker Sean Maguire, i highlighted the "Comes deep to get ball" because being the lone striker upfront, it will be a very good thing he comes deep to link with the midfielders as they move forward with and off the ball.

So my first squad pick is as follow, considering players quality and PPMs (dont look a the roles and duties for the moment, i'll chose them later) :

Imo, these are the players that best fit tactically, according to their PPMs.

How I see things here : Dahlberg can start counter-attacks with quick throws ; Da Silva has skill to be a offensive back (he's young so i'll learn him not to cut inside as I want this wing back to provide width - Flanagan is a very defensive player with no skill to play as a offensive wing back - and i'll learn him things such as "Gets forward whenever possible) ; Lenihan can switch play with long balls even though he's not a very technically gifted player ; Holtby can combine with defenders and midfielders as he has "Play one-twos" ; Majer and Rothwell call the ball further up the field, Dack arrives late in the opponent area and Bennett runs with the ball on his wing. And as I said before, Maguire link up with them by sitting naturally deeper due to his PPM.

Now, the roles, duties and TIs (no PIs for the moment). This is my first attempt - I kept it simple :

The idea is : we sit deeper, wait more time than usual before starting to press the opponent. We have a DM that protect our central defence, midfielders to defend on the wings with the fullbacks. When we get the ball back we go forward linking with the DLF - S (Support because I don't want him to be too agressive in his mentality, I want him to link, with short touches, not to take the ball and go dribbling), and exploit as much as we can, exploit spaces left by our opponent. Our DM is a kind of long-range passer who can provide good pass for midfielders who quickly go upfront with the wider players (WMs and left FB - A). The IWB - D comes to take the place of the Mezzala who leaves it empty, and the Carrilero cover the left flank which is very unprotected when we have the ball - but the "Arrives late in opponent's area" PPM of Dack will makes him goes forward sometimes to help finish offensivement movements.

When we lose the ball we regroup.

As I said it's a simple first attempt. Not tested yet. Any thoughts on it ?

EDIT : I may consider to remove "Direct passing" because I dont necessary want my players to go route one.

Edited January 19, 2020 by energumene

[sporadicsmiles]

I like the first version more than the second. You have plenty of runners getting forward to support the striker, from midfield and from defence. And you should be quite difficult to break down. 

I am not really a fan of using a carrilero in this type of formation. You have two players on the flank, and a DMC to help cover. A fourth player to cover is overkill. If you are struggling with being exploited down a flank, I do not think this is the solution, as it just weakens you in the middle instead. 

Your next step is to see if this works in matches. There is nothing obviously wrong. Just bear in mind as a weak side expected to finish 20th, you might fail even if your ideas are sound. That is just football. Bonne chance! 

[energumene]

Merci beaucoup @sporadicsmiles ! Thanks a lot.

I love the CM - Attack, because it's a very offensive runner who can really slash the opponent, but I feared it was overly agressive, needlessly considering the "Counter" instruction and the PPMs of the player (Majer "Gets Forward Whenever Possible").  And also because as a 20th predicted team, I want to focus on maintaining my defensive shape the more I can. But I know that if I want to score I need to take a little more risk with the roles and duties... So I'll give the CM - Attack a go ! 

You're right about the Carrilero, it needlessly over cover. That's coherent with my main idea of maintaining a good shape when we lose the ball, but it could help adding penetration on the counter. 

 

 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

Test it first, by all means, so you'll see the issues (if any), then you can adjust.

In theory, I would suggest the following:

- change the IWB to FB(s), this setup can potentially leave your right side exposed

- agree with removing the carrilero, it's a role more suited to possession football anyways, because it won't go forward too often and will not take many risks

- based on those traits, I'd consider Majer as an AP and Deck as the mezzala (I don't know the attributes though)

- for counter-attacking football, I usually prefer at least one attack duty striker, you need someone in the box

- if you want a direct attacking style without the hoofing, pass into space and hit early crosses is the way to go, you can even select shorter passing and your team will still play direct when it's on

- most importantly, opt in to the beta patch! I won't pop the champagne just yet, but it seems like you can actually play defensive football now

[energumene]

Thanks a lot @Enzo_Francescoli !

The idea behind the IWB was to cover the space left by the right midfielder. The idea behind the Carrilero was to cover the space left on the left flank by both the left wide midfielder and the attacking fullback. As I removed the Carrilero to add an extra counter-attacking midfielder, isn't it maybe too risky to also remove the IWB ? I will try it anyway, just to see what happens.

I dunno about the DLF - Attack... As I said earlier, I want to "force" the linking between him and the mids... I want to make sure he can be a bit like a target man, a hub for our counter-attacks... I fear his off the ball will be too much agressive on an attack duty, as I play with the standard mentality. I'll first try him on Support duty, and I'l see if I switch it or not according to what I see on the pitch !

Finally, thanks for your advice about the TIs, I wanted to keep things simple, but I'll try these tweaks if necessary !

I'll post the results later !

 

 

 

 

 

[Kaiden jeremy]

Do you play possession based football if so this formation is great and do you work ball into box?

[energumene]

Bonjour @Kaiden jeremy !

No I don't. As mentioned in the main post, I want to play counter-attacking football as I'm predicted 20th in the Premier League and will be an underdog in almost every game.  

I do not use the Work Ball into Box either as I'm looking for some kind of directness, fast decision football.  

 

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by energumene

[Experienced Defender]

56 minutes ago, energumene said:

I want to play counter-attacking football as I'm predicted 20th in the Premier League and will be an underdog in almost every game

If you want to play counter-attacking football as your primary tactical style, then you should consider a setup with the lone striker on attack duty (among other things).

Alternatively, you may also want to consider the wide 4132 formation, which can suit underdog teams pretty nicely. 

[energumene]

Il y a 9 heures, Experienced Defender a dit :

If you want to play counter-attacking football as your primary tactical style, then you should consider a setup with the lone striker on attack duty (among other things).

Alternatively, you may also want to consider the wide 4132 formation, which can suit underdog teams pretty nicely. 

Bonjour @Experienced Defender !

Could you explain why you would opt for a lone striker with an Attack duty over a Support duty ? Do you think he will link up with the midfielders moving further up the pitch even with an Attack duty ? Considering my striker Maguire has the "Comes deep" PPM.

When you say "wide 132", you mean this formation ?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, energumene said:

Could you explain why you would opt for a lone striker with an Attack duty over a Support duty ?

Because we are talking about a counter-attacking tactic, which means you need a player up front who is ready to attack space as early as possible once you win the ball. In a 2-striker system, I would go with both strikers on attack, but in different (complementary) roles. Again, speaking of counter-based tactics. 

 

1 hour ago, energumene said:

Do you think he will link up with the midfielders moving further up the pitch even with an Attack duty ?

Yes, if he has proper support from the midfield. And if you play him in a proper role (that both suits him as a player and fits logically into the system as a whole). 

 

1 hour ago, energumene said:

Considering my striker Maguire has the "Comes deep" PPM

Well, this PPM is even more a reason to play him on attack duty. 

 

1 hour ago, energumene said:

When you say "wide 132", you mean this formation ?

Yes (but not necessarily same roles and duties, of course).

[energumene]

Great, merci beaucoup @Experienced Defender !

I haven't moved on with my Blackburn save because of IRL heavy schedule but I'll definitely give your advices a try !

To sum up what have been said here by every one, I think i'm gonna go with this :

DLF - A

WM - S AP - S CM - A WM - A 

DM - D

FB - A CD - D CD - D FB - S

GK - D

Still on Standard mentality to keep a balance. And with these TIs :

Higher tempo ; Pass into spaces ; Counter ; Regroup ; Lower D-Line ; Lower LOE

Considering my original project, it could be something quite simple but coherent. If this doesn't work as intended I'll try  few tweaks, and if it still does'nt work, I'll go with the 4132 formation - I'm curious, never tried this one before.

Any other thoughts lads ?

Edited January 23, 2020 by energumene