Goalkeeper height

[Cal585]

5 hours ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

Jumping isn't listed in game as a required attribute for GK's, though having a quick look in my game for regens at least Aerial Ability looks tied to Jumping anyway so GK's who can jump should have high Aerial Ability anyway.

Yeah, I hadn't checked the highlighted recommended stats. As stated in my follow up post, I was just looking at the tooltip and what other people have stated on the forums. Though to be fair, nobody is saying Jumping Reach, only jumping which could just refer to aerial ability in a convoluted way. But yeah, I assume Jumping Reach would be tied into Aerial Ability like Height is to JR.

[MagicHat]

7 hours ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

That's not generally how the attributes work in FM, the attributes for Keepers more about where the hands end up rather than how far your feet travel - so if two keepers had exactly the same attributes but different heights then they would both reach the ball at the same time, it's just that the shorter Keeper would have a better spring in his dive to have the same reach as the taller keeper (or the taller keeper isn't as springy but he doesn't need to be because his height makes up for it) 

yeah but if the shorter one is reaching the same place he would require better attributes wouldn't he? the short keeper is travelling a further distance in the same amount of time, so he is producing more force, therefore he must have better physical and technical attributes. in fact on that subject shouldn't reflexes be a physical attribute?

[swansongs]

6 hours ago, MagicHat said:

yeah but if the shorter one is reaching the same place he would require better attributes wouldn't he? the short keeper is travelling a further distance in the same amount of time, so he is producing more force, therefore he must have better physical and technical attributes. in fact on that subject shouldn't reflexes be a physical attribute?

The Aerial attribute refers directly to the distance reached. The smaller keeper may well be producing more force, and be a better athlete in real life terms, but the ME doesn't need to work out that bit of maths. It already has the answer it wants.

Reflexes are a keeper-specific amalgamation of Agility, Anticipation, Concentration... Decisions? for getting hands/feet/faces in the way of things. It's as much technical and mental as physical. 

[michaeltmurrayuk]

14 hours ago, MagicHat said:

yeah but if the shorter one is reaching the same place he would require better attributes wouldn't he? the short keeper is travelling a further distance in the same amount of time, so he is producing more force, therefore he must have better physical and technical attributes. in fact on that subject shouldn't reflexes be a physical attribute?

No the attributes reflect the end result so you (and the researchers) can more easily compare players - for example say if 15 in Aerial Reach (not sure what attribute determines their diving reach, from the tooltips it's likely a combination of them, and also the attributes don't really work in absolute terms like this - whilst there will be an exact distance reached value declared in the ME calculation, researchers don't gather up their teams GK's and measure how far they can dive to give them their attributes, instead their values are based on the researchers opinion of how good they are which will already take into account their height/weight etc... So if a researchers sees a GK is poor at getting across their goal they'll give them a low rating regardless of their height as it's obviously not helping them out) meant when diving left/right you had a maximum reach of 3 meters, then anyone who has 15 for Aerial Reach would have the ability to cover those 3 meters regardless of their height, it just means a GK who has 2.5m reach from their height is only able to spring 0.5m, whilst a GK who has 2m reach is able to spring 1m - so all you need to look at is the Attributes and not try and wonder how height/weight adjust them as they are already included in the calculation of the attribute in the first place.

Obviously this isn't a great example as you have artificially set both players to have the same attributes but different body types and most if not all attributes work together so whilst generally you'd expect the taller keepers to have a better reach purely due to their height advantage, that's not to say you cannot have shorter Keepers who have a longer reach when diving but they'd be the exception to the rule. (Or the tall guy is just fairly useless at diving).

[scass]

On 06/09/2018 at 09:00, MagicHat said:

Imagine GK A can dive a maximum of 2 feet to the side in 0.5 of a second

Imagine GK B can dive a maximum of 2 feet to the side in 0.5 of a second

GK A is 6ft 6 and gk B is 6ft

GK A would be closer to the goal post than GK B.

For them both to dive to the side the same distance in the same time they would have the same attributes but the taller keeper would cover a bigger area? Which would in turn mean it's easier for him to save shots that are closer to the goal posts.

If they both could reach the exact same place in the same time, the shorter GK would need to be able to dive further in the same time, which would require him to have better attributes than the taller one.

Ingenious, as a means of analysing the relationships between heights, but I would say it’s not how it works. You’re assuming that height alone determines a keepers ability to get to a shot. But it depends where it’s going. A big man will often be less good at getting down to a low drive for instance. And height doesn’t confer an advantage in - say - positioning for a shot, or anticipating when it’s likely. The big guy might have more reach when it comes to the top corner, and more reach all round, but pure height isn’t the only factor. Gordon Banks, after all, was only a shade above 6’. 

 

That said, I have a hot prospect in the youth team who is rated as potential 5 stars. He’s a mere 178cm, and has aerial reach, and jumping reach in single figures. And he constantly whining about training to improve them.