FM2009 - Official Manchester United Thread - The Home of the Champions

[Ainu]

I've read a lot of complaints about how Possebon and in particular Rafael, who seems like a surprisingly bright prospect in real life, are rated. Rightly so I reckon, but the United researcher isn't to blame as he had to finalise his data before any of them put in some good performances for the first team. I'm sure some of you would be interested in re-evaluating them yourselves by editing the database in the full game, as would I. I'm just not sure about how far I should go. I want to keep things fair and realistic, not overrating them, just giving them the rating they deserve. A debate about each individual attribute might be a bit much, but if anyone would like to give a few suggestions, please do! But a simple suggestion on CA and PA would be appreciated too.

PS: I'm not sure this is the place to be discussing attributes, but the United researcher in the Data Forum made it quite clear what sort of discussion is valuable to him. I doubt this one would be, so I don't want to clutter his thread with it.

[Evon]

He isn't to blame because they were done by the Brazilian researchers. Fabio and Rafael that is. Not sure about Possebon.

[Shalashaska]

I need to ask a dumb question. What's thie RWB, TTB, CF and HUB you guys are talking about? Berbatov is driving me crazy. I turned on full game TV mode and Berbatov is nearly nonexistant.

Trust me mate look at my other post near the top and there are instructions for Berba there. Some may think its weird but im giving him instructions to match how he as a lazy striker plays and its paying off massively for me, started new game(check if my tactic was good) and hes got one against chelsea set up a goal and against hull hes just scored 2!!!

[mwf]

I personally find Manchester United's players to be very unrealistically rated in FM. Michael Carrick for example is always so average in the game but is a fantastic player in reality. I also feel Patrice Evra and Rio Ferdinand are much much better than their stats in the game would suggest. Judging by those screen shots, Fabio, Rafael and Possebon have also been made to look crap even though Fergie has spoken about all three being exceptional talents? I'm not even a United fan and I think it's harsh like

Rafael especially looks very poor, I was also dissapointed. Unless they do drastically improve.

[heron]

He isn't to blame because they were done by the Brazilian researchers. Fabio and Rafael that is. Not sure about Possebon.

I'm thinking about giving all three of them a PA of -9, which is still quite random, since we don't know how good they'll become exactly. And keeping the CA the same, just let them develop...

But I'll probably first take a look at the potential of the young players at Arsenal and Liverpool to see if this will make our youth side too good (which I doubt with Landsbury, Wilshere and Ramsey in the Gunners' side).

[studley1984]

I'm thinking about giving all three of them a PA of -9, which is still quite random, since we don't know how good they'll become exactly. And keeping the CA the same, just let them develop...

But I'll probably first take a look at the potential of the young players at Arsenal and Liverpool to see if this will make our youth side too good (which I doubt with Landsbury, Wilshere and Ramsey in the Gunners' side).

I would say Rafael should be at least -9 and Possebon -8 (possibly -9 at a push) based on what has been seen of them so far. However, with what little has been seen of Fabio i would say he should be around -7.

If he was better than that then surely he would be getting some kind of a look in at left back what with only the right footed O'Shea as an alternative to Evra.

[United__FM]

I would say Rafael should be at least -9 and Possebon -8 (possibly -9 at a push) based on what has been seen of them so far. However, with what little has been seen of Fabio i would say he should be around -7.

If he was better than that then surely he would be getting some kind of a look in at left back what with only the right footed O'Shea as an alternative to Evra.

Fabio's been injured since just after joining United.

[studley1984]

Fabio's been injured since just after joining United.

Im seem to remember Fabio playing frequently for the reserves during their pre-season (their season starts later than the first teams) and he did make the bench against Juventus (although he didnt come on)

Whereas Rafael and Possebon played a few times in pre-season, were involved in the squad for the Community shield and were on the bench against Newcastle (both came on as well!)

I'm pretty sure that Fabio was fit during that time but was just overlooked, and has only been injured since.

Although i cant be 100% sure without checking. I could be wrong.

[simonbyrneno.4]

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone has had success using tactics from fm08?

I've been using Ronaldo_MD/Heathxxx's Man Utd Tactic to great success in 08 and was wondering if anyone has tried it on 09 demo.

Here's the link to it if anyone is interested...

http://dodownload.filefront.com/9800116//88f2623d3227da72345d6ef2b39b85325831ee24bb0f4bad513ba2b2dae096b03eff6d88441929fe

http://dodownload.filefront.com/9800117//88f2623d3227da72345d6ef2b39b85325831ee24bb0f4bad513ba2b2dae096b03eff6d88441929fe

It's an amazing tactic that really plays like the way that has Utd play in reality, (like last season.) Ronaldo will score goals for fun with it.

[United__FM]

Im seem to remember Fabio playing frequently for the reserves during their pre-season (their season starts later than the first teams) and he did make the bench against Juventus (although he didnt come on)

Whereas Rafael and Possebon played a few times in pre-season, were involved in the squad for the Community shield and were on the bench against Newcastle (both came on as well!)

I'm pretty sure that Fabio was fit during that time but was just overlooked, and has only been injured since.

Although i cant be 100% sure without checking. I could be wrong.

No. Fabio did take part in pre-season and did make it onto the bench before he hurt his shoulder in August. My response was to your original post about him being overlooked compared to Rafael's being chosen. Rafael did get his minutes before Fabio but then Fabio got hurt vs. Chelsea reserves soon after. So it's not like SAF's been overlooking Fabio, really.

The twins should have about the same PA, imo.

[Indoctrin]

Fabio is actually a better player than Rafael as you can see if you check out the Brazil u17 squads.

I recall in one competition Fabio played at left back and bagged 7 goals in the competition. Only Lulinha managed to score more and he was a forward!

I played with the demo for a bit and signed Damien Ismodes (Peruvian 19 years old AMRL) and he covered for Ronaldo brilliantly, even set him to switch with Nani and he still kept up the assists.

[Evon]

Fabio was considered to be the better out of the twins. He's right footed too and plays at left back. He just hasn't had a chance because of his injury and the fact that Evra is brilliant whilst Neville is old and rubbish and Brown just isn't a fullback.

[Shalashaska]

Anyone bought Kun Aguero yet? i bought him for 33 mill and he is keeping rooney out of the team at the mo. He got two quality goals in his first game against Hull and his placed finishing looks really good in 3D.

[ham_aka_stam]

yep i've bought big Kun, but untill ronaldo gets fit and with lots of other injuries, he's playing at RW, still bagging goals and assists all over the shop

[studley1984]

No. Fabio did take part in pre-season and did make it onto the bench before he hurt his shoulder in August. My response was to your original post about him being overlooked compared to Rafael's being chosen. Rafael did get his minutes before Fabio but then Fabio got hurt vs. Chelsea reserves soon after. So it's not like SAF's been overlooking Fabio, really.

The twins should have about the same PA, imo.

Fabio was considered to be the better out of the twins. He's right footed too and plays at left back. He just hasn't had a chance because of his injury and the fact that Evra is brilliant whilst Neville is old and rubbish and Brown just isn't a fullback.

Maybe, but SAF has been been alot more lavish in his praise for Rafael even when both have played a part in the game and i would say he's a much better judge than any of us

Fabio is actually a better player than Rafael as you can see if you check out the Brazil u17 squads.

I recall in one competition Fabio played at left back and bagged 7 goals in the competition. Only Lulinha managed to score more and he was a forward!

Yep, Fabio has captained the u17s. He was their top scorer at the U17 world cup in 2007 with 3 goals and scored 7 goals in qualifying for the south american u17 championships.

Doesn't necessarily mean he has more potential though.

[studley1984]

Anyone bought Kun Aguero yet? i bought him for 33 mill and he is keeping rooney out of the team at the mo. He got two quality goals in his first game against Hull and his placed finishing looks really good in 3D.

Yep - played well in pre-season.

He then played 1 game after getting back from the olympics in which he tore a muscle after about 60 mins and was out for 5 months!! He did score in that game though

[manu legend]

About Fabio/Rafael/Possebon you have to remember that these attributes were based on last season so I'm sure that they may get an improvement in the next data update after the game esp. Rafael if he continues the way he has been playing.

[Evon]

Yep, Fabio has captained the u17s. He was their top scorer at the U17 world cup in 2007 with 3 goals and scored 7 goals in qualifying for the south american u17 championships.

Doesn't necessarily mean he has more potential though.

By that sentiment Ronaldo doesn't necessarily have more potential than Park.

[studley1984]

By that sentiment Ronaldo doesn't necessarily have more potential than Park.

Thats such a stupid comparison.

You are using two completely different players of different ages and of different statures, one of which has proven themselves as one of the best in the world.

Thats as constructive as comparing Rio with Evans.

In Rafael and Fabio we have two players of the exact same age, who play in very similar possitions (albeit on dfferent sides of the pitch), are of a very similar physical stature, both have the exact same potential problems with language and culture etc, etc.

How do you make the decision as to which player has the higher PA?

It would be easy to give them the same, and i'm not saying thats wrong, but my opinion was purely based on SAF's remarks and praise about Rafael. He obviously rates him very highly, whereas there has been little mention of Fabio (Which granted doesn't mean he doesnt rate him as well).

But this is just my opinion.

[Indoctrin]

Thats such a stupid comparison.

You are using two completely different players of different ages and of different statures, one of which has proven themselves as one of the best in the world.

Thats as constructive as comparing Rio with Evans.

In Rafael and Fabio we have two players of the exact same age, who play in very similar possitions (albeit on dfferent sides of the pitch), are of a very similar physical stature, both have the exact same potential problems with language and culture etc, etc.

How do you make the decision as to which player has the higher PA?

It would be easy to give them the same, and i'm not saying thats wrong, but my opinion was purely based on SAF's remarks and praise about Rafael. He obviously rates him very highly, whereas there has been little mention of Fabio (Which granted doesn't mean he doesnt rate him as well).

But this is just my opinion.

The only reason no praise has been given to Fabio is becauseof his injury. Go on youtube and search for fabio man utd reserves and it will show one of the goals he got before his injury and it was absoloutly awesome. Sprinting forward from defence, chipping the ball over the opposition then getting on the end of it and sprinting past two defenders and smashing it into the net. It was even better than Rafaels goal against Arsenal.

[Shalashaska]

Fabio and Rafael are as good as eachother,, You dont get branded the next Cafu and Roberto Carlos for nothing! They should be given good PA's but it is up to us the managers how they develop(through training, first team exposure etc) Fabio has had a few injuries and its easier for Rafael to get into the team as Neville is past his best and Brown is injured. Simple as.

[United__FM]

Maybe, but SAF has been been alot more lavish in his praise for Rafael even when both have played a part in the game and i would say he's a much better judge than any of us

Fabio has 0 official apps for United. It's not exacting damning that SAF hasn't commented on couple pre-season and reserve appearances.

It would be easy to give them the same, and i'm not saying thats wrong, but my opinion was purely based on SAF's remarks and praise about Rafael. He obviously rates him very highly, whereas there has been little mention of Fabio (Which granted doesn't mean he doesnt rate him as well).

There you go. You've already admitted that the basis of your argument may be faulty.

Generally speaking, don't you think that SAF has many many opinions that the media does NOT report on?

The only reason no praise has been given to Fabio is becauseof his injury.

Exactly!

Fabio and Rafael are as good as eachother,,

Yup. Similar CA's as well, I'd say.

I have nothing for Fabio, nor nothing against Rafael. And I'm not related to Fabio neither, which would make me related to Rafael anyways if true I just think it's silly to give Fabio a lower PA just because he's been injured, that's all.

[I\'m me]

Just started a game with united. coming up to the community shield match with Portsmouth after a decent pre-season, a number of changes for the squad also.

Out:

Michael Carrick £8.5m - Tottenham

Tomas Kusczak £2.5m - West brom

John O'shea £3m - Sunderland

Carlos Tevez £19m - Inter Milan

Owen Hargreaves P/ex - Athletic

Manucho £3m - Portsmouth

Darren Fletcher £7.5m - Spurs

In:

Lassana Diarra £5m - Portsmouth

Thierry Henry £13m - Barcelona

Sebastian Giovinco £7.75m - Juventus

Martin Caceres £11m - Barcelona

Miguel Veloso £11.5m - Sporting

Marcelo £4.2m - Real Madrid

Sergio Mota £5.5m - Sao Paulo

Lorenzo De Silvestri £12.25m - Lazio

Michael Owen £5.5m - Newcastle

Ignacio Camacho P/ex - Athletic

I am playing an attacking 442 formation at the moment:

GK- Foster/Van Der sar

WBR: De Silvestri/Brown

WBL: Evra/Marcelo

CB: Ferdinand Caceres

CB: Vidic/Evans

MC: Velso/Camacho

MC: Diarra/Anderson/Scholes

AMR: Ronaldo/Nani

AML: Giovinco/Giggs/Mota

FC: Wayne Rooney/Michael Owen

FC: Thierry Henry/Dimitar Berbatov

[studley1984]

There you go. You've already admitted that the basis of your argument may be faulty.

Yes because all arguments based on opinion have faults and i'm not saying that i am 100% correct. It is simply my opinion.

For me the problem is how do you quantify potential ability?

A players potential is always a guestimation. There is no equation for working this out.

Also a players potential ability can surely fluctuate during his career.

Player A who is highly rated at 16 may at 25 have got knowhere and may have improved very little.

Player B who looks average at 16 could then become a world beater at 23.

Why then was player A said to have had a higher PA than player B? The answer is a combination of opinion and their CA.

Therefore, every PA in the game is based on someones opinion and current form. These opinions and a players form change over time hence why players PA will sometimes change between each version/data update.

My opinion based on what we have seen so far playing for United (not against other youth players, but against experienced opposition) and on what has been said by SAF is that Rafael seems to be the slightly better prospect.

However, Fabio might play next week and be absolutely awesome and my opinion might then change.

[United__FM]

Yes because all arguments based on opinion have faults and i'm not saying that i am 100% correct. It is simply my opinion.

For me the problem is how do you quantify potential ability?

A players potential is always a guestimation. There is no equation for working this out.

Also a players potential ability can surely fluctuate during his career.

Player A who is highly rated at 16 may at 25 have got knowhere and may have improved very little.

Player B who looks average at 16 could then become a world beater at 23.

Why then was player A said to have had a higher PA than player B? The answer is a combination of opinion and their CA.

Therefore, every PA in the game is based on someones opinion and current form. These opinions and a players form change over time hence why players PA will sometimes change between each version/data update.

My opinion based on what we have seen so far playing for United (not against other youth players, but against experienced opposition) and on what has been said by SAF is that Rafael seems to be the slightly better prospect.

However, Fabio might play next week and be absolutely awesome and my opinion might then change.

Fabio....

...has...

...been...

...hurt.

Understand? :confused:

[ww7]

Just started a game with united. coming up to the community shield match with Portsmouth after a decent pre-season' date=' a number of changes for the squad also.

Out:

Michael Carrick £8.5m - Tottenham

Tomas Kusczak £2.5m - West brom

John O'shea £3m - Sunderland

Carlos Tevez £19m - Inter Milan

Owen Hargreaves P/ex - Athletic

Manucho £3m - Portsmouth

Darren Fletcher £7.5m - Spurs

In:

Lassana Diarra £5m - Portsmouth

Thierry Henry £13m - Barcelona

Sebastian Giovinco £7.75m - Juventus

Martin Caceres £11m - Barcelona

Miguel Veloso £11.5m - Sporting

Marcelo £4.2m - Real Madrid

Sergio Mota £5.5m - Sao Paulo

Lorenzo De Silvestri £12.25m - Lazio

Michael Owen £5.5m - Newcastle

Ignacio Camacho P/ex - Athletic

I am playing an attacking 442 formation at the moment:

GK- Foster/Van Der sar

WBR: De Silvestri/Brown

WBL: Evra/Marcelo

CB: Ferdinand Caceres

CB: Vidic/Evans

MC: Velso/Camacho

MC: Diarra/Anderson/Scholes

AMR: Ronaldo/Nani

AML: Giovinco/Giggs/Mota

FC: Wayne Rooney/Michael Owen

FC: Thierry Henry/Dimitar Berbatov[/quote']

How in the world did you afford these players? Man United only has 10 million pounds to start with, and even with the outgoing players, you didn't make as much as you spent!

[ManUtdFan]

Maybe he asked for more money like i did ? I asked for more and got a extra 45M .

[I\'m me]

yeah i asked for more money for transfers and wages combined them up and had £60m to spend then sold some players obviously

[Shalashaska]

how has Thierry Henry been for you?

[Adiee]

When I asked my board for extra money they said no and when I adjusted the wages/transfer money, I only ended up with £21m!! Just my luck! Still, I managed to bring in Srna, Diarra and Matias Fernandes. Selling Fletcher and Kuszczak.

[ham_aka_stam]

you have to make sure you don't create your manager using the wizard, and set your past experience as international. some call this cheating... not sure why, its just a fast track to premiership management

[Adiee]

you have to make sure you don't create your manager using the wizard, and set your past experience as international. some call this cheating... not sure why, its just a fast track to premiership management

What, is this to enable me getting a whole lot more money?

[ham_aka_stam]

yeah, and then you immeadiately shift your wages into transfers and then ask for more wages, which you then shift into transfers again. Good for the demo, but not reccomended on the full game as you may roll in some hefty debts

[Adiee]

Fantastic! Shall do that as soon as i get home. Thanks for the tip mate!

[I\'m me]

Shalashaska - he's been a little hit and miss so far but that is more down to me trying to find the right tactic than anything else

[Evon]

Thats such a stupid comparison.

You are using two completely different players of different ages and of different statures, one of which has proven themselves as one of the best in the world.

Thats as constructive as comparing Rio with Evans.

In Rafael and Fabio we have two players of the exact same age, who play in very similar possitions (albeit on dfferent sides of the pitch), are of a very similar physical stature, both have the exact same potential problems with language and culture etc, etc.

How do you make the decision as to which player has the higher PA?

It would be easy to give them the same, and i'm not saying thats wrong, but my opinion was purely based on SAF's remarks and praise about Rafael. He obviously rates him very highly, whereas there has been little mention of Fabio (Which granted doesn't mean he doesnt rate him as well).

But this is just my opinion.

Yes they are incredibly similar. And one of them has been playing better in the handful of matches that they have played. So who gets the higher PA? Fabio. Duh and duh.

[crazy gra]

yeah, and then you immeadiately shift your wages into transfers and then ask for more wages, which you then shift into transfers again. Good for the demo, but not reccomended on the full game as you may roll in some hefty debts

What's the point of having more money in the demo? Playing the demo is meant to get you used to the game, but now you're going to change who you sign and sell if you're budget is different.

And putting your reputation as internation is cheating because you're not an international player, unless I'm mistaken.

[Adiee]

Rafinha (£15m), Marcelo (£4.4m), Diarra (£4.7m), Veloso (£12.25m), Huntelaar (£14m) and Henry (£14m) in so far.

O'Shea, Fletcher, Manucho and Kuszczak all transfer listed.

[manu legend]

Rafinha (£15m), Marcelo (£4.4m), Diarra (£4.7m), Veloso (£12.25m), Huntelaar (£14m) and Henry (£14m) in so far.

O'Shea, Fletcher, Manucho and Kuszczak all transfer listed.

Some good buys but what was the need in buying two ST's in henry and Huntelaar. Surely one would have been sufficent?

[Adiee]

Absolutely agee mate. I actually put Berbatov up for sale as soon as I took over as manager and every big club (apart from City!) were interested but they wouldn't bid for him! They were only willing to take him on loan for the season with a £29m fee to be paid at the end of it, but as i wanted the money there and then, i rejected.

What do you reckon??

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

Hey lads ; don't get much non-mainstream football in my country (non UK) and was wondering how Possebon has turned out? The kid looks mint, but not sure on the game!

Any potential?

[Adiee]

Hey lads ; don't get much non-mainstream football in my country (non UK) and was wondering how Possebon has turned out? The kid looks mint, but not sure on the game!

Any potential?

Hey mate,

I think he's better and will turn out better in real life than on the game. Good passing skills, strong, eye for a pass.

I think he's got a great future ahead of him, at Manchester United.

[Pope of Pot, King of Nothi]

But not on FM09 Man Utd, right?

[croaker]

you could turn him into a carrick type midfielder if he has a good enough potential and is trained well.

[manu legend]

Absolutely agee mate. I actually put Berbatov up for sale as soon as I took over as manager and every big club (apart from City!) were interested but they wouldn't bid for him! They were only willing to take him on loan for the season with a £29m fee to be paid at the end of it, but as i wanted the money there and then, i rejected.

What do you reckon??

But that leaves you with 6 ST's if you include Manucho. A bit much don't you think?

[Adiee]

Hey lads ; don't get much non-mainstream football in my country (non UK) and was wondering how Possebon has turned out? The kid looks mint, but not sure on the game!

Any potential?

But that leaves you with 6 ST's if you include Manucho. A bit much don't you think?

It is a bit much but I signed Henry AND Huntelaar as I thought there would be takers for Berbatov, now I'm stuck with him! Manucho has been transfer listed, therefore he won't play in the first team.

ALSO - Tevez has now been ruled out for 4 months due to a broken foot! So i'm back to 4 strikers up front.

[ww7]

After some wheeling and dealing in the transfer market, i made some money enough to form a decent midfield. Sold Tevez to Real for 29 million (told them to pay 29 million upfront or shove off), Sold Carrick back to Spurs for 15million (told them to pay upfront to and don't try to sock me with monthly payments). Add that to what I got for Fletcher for 7.5 mil (to Spurs too! haha), i got enough to bring in Veloso (11mil), Diarra (4.5 mil), Giovinco (7 mil), Santana (7 mil over 18 months) and Balotelli (loan for 4 mil upfront, and 6 mil for permanant transfer).

I'm happy with what I've got so far. My ass man has been telling me how lazy Carrick has been in the game. I can also see Scholes having the ball robbed from him the moment he touches it (purely because he has lost his pace) and Berbatov is still sulking. So these transfers will come in handy to shore up the weak areas and provide quality cover for the first 11.

[Adiee]

THE GAME IS HERE TOMORROW!!

Apologies, just can't contain my excitement!

[tomsaxton]

And putting your reputation as internation is cheating because you're not an international player, unless I'm mistaken.

It's no more cheating than taking control of Man Utd from the start. It's all fantasy. People enjoy the game in different ways.

[libertine]

Fabio, Evans Petrucci and Welbeck all have

-9 PA

which is great!