Pep's Manchester City 17/18

[Moutorious]

59 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

Whilst i have no great desire to "recreate Peps tactics" (see above post), this part is something i have been working on trying to emulate, if not recreate.  Creating and controlling space are so important in football, and have to go hand in hand. The other linked factor which compliments this is overloads. A lot of Peps tactical approach is premised on creating an overload in one area. Will try to do a few screenshots below to show what i mean: 

Situation 1 - Double Overload 

In the shot below, we have created one overload already, and are on our way to creating a second. In the black box, you can see Gagliardini has the ball and has team mates either side of him. The opposition here have 2 CMs (The DM is naturally too deep to become involved at this point) and one of the CMs (number 4) has had to pick up our #77 who is breaking forward.  

This initially gives us a 3 v 1 overload on the remaining CM for Roma (#6). Of course Roma need to help this guy out, so what happens is there wide men (AML and AMR in this game) have to come infield to help. In particular i have highlighted #8 who has been drawn quite far in field, which then gives us our second overlap developing, and this time in a more dangerous area. We have a 2 v 1 overload now down our right on the opposition LB 

This actually leads to a lovely constructed goal, which i would show if i could get FM to properly upload clips to youtube  

Situation 2 - Central Overload and Half Space

So this one starts without standard shape in place. In actual fact, the opposing keeper has just taken a goal kick and it is about to land on the head of Valero (yes, i am using Borja Valero at LB...). Interestingly, you could look at this shape in quite a few ways. Almost a diamond in the middle there, but key is we have a standard solid looking back 4, in the event that Valero does not win possession, 

As it happens, Valero does win it and takes it down, now what happens is he pops it quickly into Gagliardini, who you can see has started to move toward him.  At the same time, Cancelo has come infield to recieve the next pass, and this is where we pause to see what situation we have created. By having the RW playing as wide as possible, and stretching the field side to side, we create a lovely half space for our #10 to run into if he so chooses. The reason we have created this, is because the opposing LB has started to drift out to cover our wide man. The opposing wide man cant do that, partly because at this stage Roma are behind and gone attacking, but also because he has been drawn in to deal with the start of a central overload again. 

As it happens on this occasion, our #10 does not choose to go into that half space (it is the 93rd minute, and he knackered to be fair), but instead drops back in and again we create a central overload, 4 v 2 this time which makes retaining possession easy.  It also frees up the RM (who is cut off this shot - oops) to be an easy passing option on his own out wide. 

Is that a recreation of Peps tactic? No, i would not say it is. Some of the roles likely are, but other aspects are just me using (or trying to use - honestly i am not that good at it) the options available to me in game to try and recreate those 3 principles - Space Creation, Space Control and Overloads. 

what did your tactic look like to create this, if you don't mind?

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

But if you want high possession numbers you need a tactic with sideways and backwards passes. Mentality in FM is a risk factor and possession tactics are not high risk factor. So if you want to create one on Control Mentality, then you need to balance that out with player roles and duties plus TIs. The same thing needs to happen if your starting mentality is Counter - you can balanced that out with more adventurous roles and duties. You can dominate the opposition in their half with Counter mentality too if you choose the other variables correctly. 

Thanks. I will keep that in mind. Ideally I want my system to be like Barca when they were excellent to watch around 2008-09 under Guardiola in his 1st season in charge. I wouldn't know where to start though in terms of team shape or mentality.

[Jambo98]

45 minutes ago, Moutorious said:

what did your tactic look like to create this, if you don't mind?

I dont mind sharing, but i suppose i would caveat it with two things: 

1) The tactic overall is nothing amazing, it has its defensive problems and at times against teams who press us and play high tempo, we look awful. We just had a 2 nil lead over Fiorentina and completely collapsed to lose 3 v 2, including 2 goals from corners

2) The space creation stuff is heavily linked to player types, so what works in the Inter midfield, will likely not work exactly the same elsewhere. 

With that said........

In game i make quite a few tweaks.

 - Have swapped the IWB between defend and support, and yet to settle on that.

- The CM(a) was a Mez (s) but felt like i wanted both roles to be attacking to get into the half spaces so moved to CM(a) for some variety. 

- Sometimes will add "run wide with the ball" to the Mez to create a Right side overload for short periods of the game, then will take that off again

- The ST often changes in game. AF really at first glance is not that well linked to the rest of the system, but it can be used to create space vertically by pushing back the dline. Also, Icardi is unbelievable as an Advanced Forward........but at times i switch that to DLF(a) if i want him coming back to link the play more, or when Eder comes off the bench. 

 

It is typical of any tactic i make on FM so far, creates some of what i want, lovely space creation at times, overloads happen. Other times, we look like West Ham. 

[yonko]

1 hour ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Thanks. I will keep that in mind. Ideally I want my system to be like Barca when they were excellent to watch around 2008-09 under Guardiola in his 1st season in charge. I wouldn't know where to start though in terms of team shape or mentality.

Barca were excellent to watch during all 4 of Pep's seasons. The peak for me was 2010-11 season with Villa and Pedro around Messi. Each season was different with little tactical tweaks from Pep though.

If you're not sure where to start from, Standard / Flexible is always a good & simple beginning. Set up a second version with Control / Structured and a third with Counter / Fluid. Then think of roles and duties for each, as well as TIs.

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

Barca were excellent to watch during all 4 of Pep's seasons. The peak for me was 2010-11 season with Villa and Pedro around Messi. Each season was different with little tactical tweaks from Pep though.

If you're not sure where to start from, Standard / Flexible is always a good & simple beginning. Set up a second version with Control / Structured and a third with Counter / Fluid. Then think of roles and duties for each, as well as TIs.

Thanks. I will give it a go 

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

indeed, evidently Miles is a fan.......

I think you misunderstood (or i badly articulated) what i meant by the fact that Pep asks his striker to do everything. He does, but not all at the same time. You could make an excellent argument that Robert Lewandowski is a prefect definition of a "complete forward" - he really can do most things in the forward area of the pitch. However Pep would specifically want him do one aspect (slight over simplification here for the purpose of discussion) for 10mins, then something entirely different for 20mins when he changed the system. So in effect, for 10mins Lewan might be asked to operate as an Advanced Forward - Play right on the line, push back the defenders to create the space for his advanced midfielders. Then, Pep notices something, and changes it all. Now Lewan is to drop deeper and drag defenders with him so the wide men can come inside, and then the fullbacks can advance beyond them to........create an overload. 

Long story short, to recreate how Pep uses a "complete forward", you cannot really use the FM complete forward role. You will need to alternate the role given to your striker multiple times during the course of the game, depending on many factors. 

All coaches make changes, very few do anything even close to what Pep does. I dont have the sources to hand, but Phillip Lahm has talked eloquently about it in the past. At Bayern, Pep had the team completely versed in around 8 or so main "systems" and they would be asked to seamlessly move from one to the next during a game. During most games Bayern will, at times, have operated with a back 5, a back 4, a back 3 and a back 2.  The same player have moved from pivote to number 10 and back several times. Wide men will have changed from hugging the line to cutting inside. The key is all the changes must happen in unision. Other managers would make one of the tweaks at a time, maybe 2. 

The challenge that comes with that, and one of several reasons why last season was not a run away success, is that it requires 11 men to learn a vast discipline and depth of tactical knowledge, and not only that to 100% buy into it and make the changes without giving it a second thought. Lahm has stated it took well over a year for Bayern to adapt to this, and that was with a squad including many of the most intelligent football players you will ever find 

Sorry - bit of an essay and not overly relevant to the thread, hopefully my other post is more tactical relevant  

Without a doubt, Pep micro manages every game to the smallest details more so than any other manager....maybe even ever. That's because he's obsessed with controlling the game. 

We can change roles all the time in every game in FM. I do not see that as an obstacle. The 3 tactical slots allow us for 3 versions, but then each version can have many role combinations which can be changed and provide even more versions.

BTW, Pep doesn't just change one role for one player. He changes several roles at the same time. Which is exactly what we can and should do in FM. Example: when you change the role of your ST, you should also change the role of the players around and behind him to take advantage of the new ST role.

2 hours ago, Jambo98 said:

I dont mind sharing, but i suppose i would caveat it with two things: 

1) The tactic overall is nothing amazing, it has its defensive problems and at times against teams who press us and play high tempo, we look awful. We just had a 2 nil lead over Fiorentina and completely collapsed to lose 3 v 2, including 2 goals from corners

2) The space creation stuff is heavily linked to player types, so what works in the Inter midfield, will likely not work exactly the same elsewhere. 

With that said........

In game i make quite a few tweaks.

 - Have swapped the IWB between defend and support, and yet to settle on that.

- The CM(a) was a Mez (s) but felt like i wanted both roles to be attacking to get into the half spaces so moved to CM(a) for some variety. 

- Sometimes will add "run wide with the ball" to the Mez to create a Right side overload for short periods of the game, then will take that off again

- The ST often changes in game. AF really at first glance is not that well linked to the rest of the system, but it can be used to create space vertically by pushing back the dline. Also, Icardi is unbelievable as an Advanced Forward........but at times i switch that to DLF(a) if i want him coming back to link the play more, or when Eder comes off the bench. 

 

It is typical of any tactic i make on FM so far, creates some of what i want, lovely space creation at times, overloads happen. Other times, we look like West Ham. 

This looks like an attempt to implement some of Pep's tactical plan vs Chelsea.

[Jambo98]

Well, its an attempt to do what i discussed / demonstrated in the previous post?  

[yonko]

12 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Thanks. I will give it a go 

No problem. Let me know how it goes. FYI, we can probably set up a tactic to play pretty much the same way on the 3 sets of mentality + team shape combinations, if we balance out the roles, duties and instructions correctly. So that is why I'm saying that we should not be so hung up on what mentality and team shape need to be used for possession tactic. And I haven't even thrown the formation into the equation. But I do not want to confuse you even further.

Start with the 3 combinations I mentioned. Add a few Tis for possession with a subtle differences here and there. And then balance that out with roles and duties - you can change those as it plays out anyway. Set up as many pre-season friendlies as you can against very very easy opponents so you can experiment while all your player get match fitness and high morale (through winning those friendlies). IMPORTANT: Do not get hung up on player's roles suitability at all! In my custom skin for FM17 I had removed that graphic completely from my tactic pitch view on the player icons. As Cleon has said many times in the past, every player can play every role....they will just play it differently through their attributes and PPMs. The only things to consider when choosing roles are: how will it play and how will it link with other roles, and will it do what you want it to do in the overall scheme of things.

[Fritz13]

38 minutes ago, yonko said:

IMPORTANT: Do not get hung up on player's roles suitability at all! In my custom skin for FM17 I had removed that graphic completely from my tactic pitch view on the player icons. As Cleon has said many times in the past, every player can play every role....they will just play it differently through their attributes and PPMs. The only things to consider when choosing roles are: how will it play and how will it link with other roles, and will it do what you want it to do in the overall scheme of things.

This 

My best IWB last year was a retrained CM 

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

This 

My best IWB last year was a retrained CM 

That's in line with Pep's theory that midfield players can play in every position.

Fabian Delph is a prime example of that.....and England NT can benefit from it cause they've been lacking good left fullback since Ashley Cole divorced that Cheryl chick (stupid guy).