Can this player be put into goalscoring chances?

[Bunkerossian]

A few days ago I started a save with South Korea. My best offensive player, Son Heung-Min could not get into a single chance. He was played as an IF-A, with the striker being a DF-Su/De. What should I do to fix the situation?

[Atarin]

Just from a brief look I'm not sure what you're trying to do. You're on Control but your roles and duties don't appear to suit ball retention. It seems like you're trying to build on the right and release Son on the left, which is fine but your right hand side is set up to counter rather than control the ball and manouvre the opposition away from Son's attacking zone.

[Bunkerossian]

I have no good attacking right back. So I need a standard winger on the right in any case.

[jorgvandervloed]

In the 4-1-2-2-1 tactic I'm sure he will get his chances, if not,  have a look at the striker. He will be very important to create space and a DF (D) isn't a very mobile role. Maybe a DLF (S) or a F9 (S)? 

In the 4-2-3-1 tactic, I'm a bit unsure of what you want to create here? Do you want your striker to drop deep while you have three players behind him already for example? 

[AFCBeer]

The theory of a striker dropping deep and having your wide players as the main goal threat is a little overrated by FM managers IMO. Can Son not just play as the striker himself if he is your best player?

If you are certain this is the way you want to play, then don't use a Defensive Forward. He is hard coded to play no risky passes and (I think) hold up the ball. It's no surprise Son isn't getting chances. A DLF or F9 would be better choices or even going strikerless. 

[Bunkerossian]

The strikers I have- outwith Son, are all hard-working, tall players who are bad at scoring. I honestly thought the striker could use his work rate to keep the back line busy while Son would be played in by the Regista/AP.

[Bizarre Own Goal]

With an IF-A and a SS-A, they'll be looking to attack the same space to get in on goal. So I would look at using the 4-1-2-2-1 as you'll have more space to exploit.

Also the DF on defend and the SS-A will be taking up a similar starting positions too, which will cause confusion. If you want to persevere with the defensive forward, you should change to a support role. That way he'll keep the back 4 busy instead of the oppositions defensive midfielders.

[Bunkerossian]

2 minutes ago, Bizarre Own Goal said:

With an IF-A and a SS-A, they'll be looking to attack the same space to get in on goal. So I would look at using the 4-1-2-2-1 as you'll have more space to exploit.

Also the DF on defend and the SS-A will be taking up a similar starting positions too, which will cause confusion. If you want to persevere with the defensive forward, you should change to a support role. That way he'll keep the back 4 busy instead of the oppositions defensive midfielders.

Wuldn't an IF-A and SS-A create an overload on the defense in that area? Or does the game not work that way?

[Bizarre Own Goal]

With a team full of great players, potentially yes, as they would have the necessary attributes to be able to do their own thing when in that type of situation. But Son has positioning of 7, decisions of 9 and team work of 10, so surely this will come into play when trying to create an effective overload of an area.

Plus you're focussing on overloading an area of the pitch where there will be a lot of opposition bodies depending on the formation that they use. With the current player roles you're looking at 3 players occupying a similar position in front of a back 4, and if the opposition deploy a DM then there's no space in that area, and therefore there won't be any viable passing options. So it'll be harder for your players to create clear cut or even half chances.

The 4-1-2-2-1 offers some variety as you're allowing your 2 CM's to get forward as well as the IF-A cutting inside but your left back is allowed to get forward so there's a threat on each wing, space for the IF to run into and bodies to support from deep.

[Bunkerossian]

Quote

With a team full of great players, potentially yes, as they would have the necessary attributes to be able to do their own thing when in that type of situation. But Son has positioning of 7, decisions of 9 and team work of 10, so surely this will come into play when trying to create an effective overload of an area.

Plus you're focussing on overloading an area of the pitch where there will be a lot of opposition bodies depending on the formation that they use. With the current player roles you're looking at 3 players occupying a similar position in front of a back 4, and if the opposition deploy a DM then there's no space in that area, and therefore there won't be any viable passing options. So it'll be harder for your players to create clear cut or even half chances.

The 4-1-2-2-1 offers some variety as you're allowing your 2 CM's to get forward as well as the IF-A cutting inside but your left back is allowed to get forward so there's a threat on each wing, space for the IF to run into and bodies to support from deep.

 

What role would you suggest for the AMC in the asymmetric 4231?  And if my strikers are bad at scoring and aren't too creative, can a change in the midfield roles in the 41221 help? Another reason why I used a Df role was to hinder opposition teams from starting attacks from the back. In theory, maybe even cause catastrophic errors in possession of the opposition defenders.

[Bizarre Own Goal]

You could easily change the ST's role and then use PIs to get him to close down more or even op instructions. 

It depends on how you'd like the rest of your midfield to play. AM - s or Enganche could work?

Having midfielders who can get up and down the pitch could help with arriving in the box for crosses but also help in defensive phases. So a CM-s/B2B/BWM-s etc. 

[alanschu14]

I have had good success feeding attacking wingers with a DLF (as well as CF-S and F9) as I find those roles play a more explicit supporting role to help feed the overlapping wingers with some through passes.  If your strikers have some decent strength I'd probably try them as DLF-S to help hold up the ball, maintain possession for your winger to slice in for a pass.

[Bunkerossian]

26 minutes ago, alanschu14 said:

I have had good success feeding attacking wingers with a DLF (as well as CF-S and F9) as I find those roles play a more explicit supporting role to help feed the overlapping wingers with some through passes.  If your strikers have some decent strength I'd probably try them as DLF-S to help hold up the ball, maintain possession for your winger to slice in for a pass.

I have strong strikers, but they aren't good passers. If I can tell a CF-S to shoot less often, I'll use that.

@Bizarre Own Goal Wouldn't a B2B endanger me defensively when using a 4-2-3-1? I was hoping the AM would arrive into the box, when my midfielders can't (One is the creator, while I need one to defend mainly).

[Bizarre Own Goal]

Maybe look at shifting your SS-A into the AMRC slot to give the IF more room to move and then change your ST to a CF-S. With an overlapping LB you could have 4 players supporting the ST and 2 CMs protecting the defence.

[Bunkerossian]

1 minute ago, Bizarre Own Goal said:

Maybe look at shifting your SS-A into the AMRC slot to give the IF more room to move and then change your ST to a CF-S. With an overlapping LB you could have 4 players supporting the ST and 2 CMs protecting the defence.

More asymmetry then? Seems reasonable. SS-A fits my AMC well, but what would an AM-Su do? That role always seemed vague. The player has good Composure, so I could count on him to not miss sitters that much. Versus England I played a 4-4-2 that worked well- but one of those brute strikers had a sitter and he blew it. Could've won. Need to limit their chances of shooting.

[alanschu14]

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

More asymmetry then? Seems reasonable. SS-A fits my AMC well, but what would an AM-Su do? That role always seemed vague. The player has good Composure, so I could count on him to not miss sitters that much. Versus England I played a 4-4-2 that worked well- but one of those brute strikers had a sitter and he blew it. Could've won. Need to limit their chances of shooting.

I use AM-S and it's pretty much what it sounds like, a support player that patrols just outside the box supporting players via passes and being a passing option themselves.  Good players can still take advantage of this and slide into the box when opportunities present themselves as well.  I use one in my 4-4-2 Diamond Narrow and give them PI to roam and move into channels as necessary. What I want from him is basically to give a link up option between my midfielders and strikers and he is free to float around just outside the box (and into it sometimes) to do that.  I find with this set up he doesn't crowd into space too aggressively and will fill in gaps to help threaten opportunities.

Depending on how the game goes they could serve primarily as getting assists setting up others, sneak in for the odd goal, or not directly contribute on the stat line but still help keep defenses occupied by keeping them honest.