Strikers - through the middle

[GlesgaKillie]

Hi folks,

I am currently struggling to get a striker to work running off the back of a defence or into channels to exploit space. However, I notice the AI manages this pretty much every game and carves through my defence straight through the middle.

I have tried various formations using two, three and lone strikers. I have also used various types of team instructions and player instructions.

Basically the problem still persists. How do I stop conceding these goals through the middle and how do I score them myself.

Now I have scoured this forum. It's telling me on various threads to defend deep to avoid being hit by early crosses, passes into space and more risky passes, balls pumped into the box and balls over the opposition defence, which in itself are the instructions given to exploit space which I have tried.

So, lets say for example I want to make a 4-5-1 work. How would I go about it in a way that the striker attacks behind the defence running onto through balls and how do I set up in the game to do so myself?

Been playing various versions since 98. Skunnered with this.

[RTHerringbone]

But what specifically have you tried? What things do you think are needed to first defend against through balls, and what things are needed to benefit from through balls?

I'm not deliberately being an arse (as per the Stupid Questions Thread), but you need to at least detail something that you have tried. Otherwise it's just guesswork. What 4-5-1? A flat 4-5-1 or a more conventional 4-3-3? If a flat 4-5-1, why?

[GlesgaKillie]

Cool I'll give a few examples then.

In answer to your questions I would assume a fast defence and the ability to intercept balls would defend against through balls. Not lunging in as well and staying on feet. I would assume the ability to pass the ball through a specific space would help with through balls, i.e. into channels. Therefore players doing more risk and diret passing to a player running into a channel.

Here are a few formations I have tried the last hour and typical instructions I have tinkered with. Some instructions are deselected. Just going based on what Iv'e read on here. As to why I have tried a flat back four, just my preference. I am willing to try anything that works. I have a complete open mind on this.

[RTHerringbone]

Well, the stand out issue is the prevalence of Support Duty Wingers who hit crosses early, and the absence of creative central players to play the through balls? I'm not sure how you expect to score from through balls in systems which focus on wing play?

A 4-4-2 will typically struggle in modern football where we have so many systems with 3 central midfielders. The 4-3-3 seems a bit odd in that the DM has a Support Duty and a CM has a Defend Duty - what is the plan with that one?

Do you have any images of your goals conceded from the Tactics > Analysis > Goals screen?

[GlesgaKillie]

Iv'e tried systems with AMC's set on AP and AP's and DP's. Like I said, those are the formations of the last hour. I was only hitting early crosses with wingers as I was informed to exploit space behind a defence that was the way to go.

As for the formations, they are just the recent one's I have tinkered with. I have tried playermakers centric formations to no avail.

You know, you could try and answer the question. I admire the fact you've moved it onto what I am not doing correct. That's fine. You could just tell me how to make a striker work.

If the answer is a attacking playermaker sending direct, risky passes through to an advanced forward running into channels then i'll tell you now, it ain't working. Hence why i'm trying all manner of illogical formations and instructions.

Here is what previously worked;

Oh and I know the instructions make no sense whatsoever, but it worked;

Now here is what I would like to work. My ideal formation and instructions. Seeing as that is the road you want to go down and i'm willing, nay desperate for a solution;

[GlesgaKillie]

Let's just assume I am a total idiot. Shouldn't be a hard assumption to make. Please could you tell me, what team and player instructions to use and what's the best way to set up an advanced forward to get in behind a defence and work the channels. It can be whatever formation, system, anything you like. I'd just like to get an advanced forward to work.

Please.

[RTHerringbone]

How and why would an Advanced Forward get in behind a defence though? He's on the Highest Duty setting so the defence are going to try to have him in front of them all the time? If you want passes into space, you need space which typically means a lower Mentality and not having an Attack Duty up front, as that will just force the AI to defend deep.

[GlesgaKillie]

Ok so based on what you've just told me, the advanced forward and poacher will NOT get in behind the defenders because they are on the highest duty setting? Correct?

[GlesgaKillie]

I'm assuming the following was just added for banter yeah?

Or is it the case they only work with standard, counter, contain mentalities? Seriously?

I am very confused now. So attacking only works when players are drawn out, i.e. with a false nine, deep lying forward, so a player overlaps? So in order for a poacher or advanced forward to work, they need to be in a system that is defensive and they essentially don't do as described?

[RTHerringbone]

Ok so based on what you've just told me, the advanced forward and poacher will NOT get in behind the defenders because they are on the highest duty setting? Correct?

The Poacher will sit on the shoulder and not work the channels so unless you're playing a team with a really high line, he'll have limited space to attack. The AF again is leading the line and pushing against the defensive line. Again, it is about space. To get behind a defence, you need space. You don't create space by compressing it and pushing against the defensive line; you need to draw it forward and then play passes behind it.

[GlesgaKillie]

Right, ok. So what striker roles do exploit the space in behind a defence? Who runs into channels? Does this mean long balls don't work in the game over the top unless the striker is on a support duty?

As I said in the opening post, i'd just like to know what works. I reiterate that. You can refer me to a specific page or whatever. I'm quite happy to take on board any information. It's just i'd like to know how to get a striker to run the channels and/or get in behind a defence.

I'm also now very confused about the mentalities. I can't understand how an advanced striker won't run into the channels unless its a defensive formation.

Really appreciate any advice.

[RTHerringbone]

Right, ok. So what striker roles do exploit the space in behind a defence? Who runs into channels? Does this mean long balls don't work in the game over the top unless the striker is on a support duty?

I'd hugely recommend just starting a FMT save and testing stuff. It has no Tactics Familiarity so things just work as well as they can immediately. If you experiment with lone strikers on Attack Duty (any Role) and compare with Support Duties (any Role), it should become immediately clear, especially if you watch a Full Match for a few minutes.

Moves Into Channels is visible in Player Instructions. It's either defaulted in, defaulted out or can be added.

Long balls can work with Attack Duties, but again logic is the thing to think about. If I'm a striker on the shoulder of my defender and the defending team is deep, how much time and space do I have to deal with a long ball before it bounces and reaches the keeper? It's all about Mentality and Duty as far as I'm concerned.

[GlesgaKillie]

I'll give the FMT save a try and will test what you've mentioned on that.

[themadsheep2001]

It's not a case of what works/doesnt work, it's about context. The opposition have an effect on your approach as much as you do.

He didnt say he wont run the channels, but he will find it harder to find pockets of space if they are already sat on their 6 yard line. You cant get into space behind if there is no space, which means you need to look to create the space, draw defenders out with movement and passing, or trying to move the ball quicker than they can adjust and defend. That's when he gets behind the line or behind a defender.

[RTHerringbone]

I'll give the FMT save a try and will test what you've mentioned on that.

Just look at a couple of things - where is your striker(s) positioned relative to the AI defence. Where is the space? Then look at where the ball is and who in your team has it. What is their Role? What instructions does that Role have coded in (again, visible from the Player Instructions). If he's a BBM or BWM, is he the best man to play a pass into whatever space exists?

The solution is the space for the man who is the target of the pass, and the right man on the ball to play the pass.

[GlesgaKillie]

Thanks, that's some great info to go on, so i'll start implementing it and see where I end up. Thank you.

[GlesgaKillie]

Ok, so I took on board what both RTHerringbone and themadsheep2001 said. I also read the brilliant thread on the art of counter attacking by Cleon.

Using the advice and tips on there, plus applying what RTHerringbone said about "how I wanted my side to play" I have successfully created a counter attacking/control tactic that solved my concerns and attacked through the middle.

So from one massive whining, moaning, dour faced ****** I'd like to say a massive thanks to the mods on here. I'll try not to be such a belligerent **** as much in future.

Cheers guys

[bleventozturk]

Interesting how this works when you have nobody with attack duty. I am sure the FM tactical gurus will find explanations for it

[RTHerringbone]

Interesting how this works when you have nobody with attack duty. I am sure the FM tactical gurus will find explanations for it

The concepts are all here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/444680-The-Art-of-Counter-Attacking

[bleventozturk]

The concepts are all here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/444680-The-Art-of-Counter-Attacking

Thanks for the link. The reason I found it interesting was that I remember so many feedback posts from more experienced people here telling some other people 'you have nobody attacking the box, where will the goals come from!' Personally I always thought it should be fine to have most/all of the team on support duty.

[ajsr1982]

I got this to work well enough using a DF and a Poacher in a 4-4-2. It's not the only way I attack, but I get plenty of joy in behind with long balls over the top. It's in the lower reaches of the English leagues though. I'm not sure how well it would work elsewhere.

I use a Control strategy to encourage early ball forward, and 'More Direct' Passing. I also have my defensive line slightly deeper to encourage the opposition on a little more. I'll post it later if I find the time. It seems to work. Now, if only my forwards weren't profligate fools.

[Dr. Hook]

Thanks for the link. The reason I found it interesting was that I remember so many feedback posts from more experienced people here telling some other people 'you have nobody attacking the box, where will the goals come from!' Personally I always thought it should be fine to have most/all of the team on support duty.

Well keep in mind that the thread was all about a true counter attacking style, where you sit deep, soak up the pressure, then break. When the counter is on, players will attack the box. In more balanced or attacking setups, you do want players getting forward at some point to cause a goal threat which is where you see that analysis.

[bleventozturk]

Well keep in mind that the thread was all about a true counter attacking style, where you sit deep, soak up the pressure, then break. When the counter is on, players will attack the box. In more balanced or attacking setups, you do want players getting forward at some point to cause a goal threat which is where you see that analysis.

Makes sense. Thanks