My players just do not want to press high on the pitch

[xantheose]

First of all, about the tactic, I am trying to emulate Bielsa's Athletic Bilbao football and I've picked a random team from Premier League. Thought that Swansea could be a good option as their previous manager played attacking, possession oriented football so they might have the players to fit my system.

Here is the tactic

http://imgur.com/WDsLGU8.png

I do not have a Muniain-type of player so I tried to use Pablo Hernandez for that IF role. I had to do a few changes to fit the players in roles (IF should have been on attack, Winger on support, LWB on support and RWB on attack, as Muniain was more attacking minded than Susaeta). Generally I want a high pressing, possession oriented football, with slow build-up from defence and direct, fast football from forward players. To do this, I added "More Direct Passing" for my CMs and IF/W. Bony acts like Llorente, holding his position, not good on ball, but strong in air and plays short passes.

Not only that the players do not retain possession, averaging somewhere below 55% in all the matches I played so far, we also concede a lot because of stupid defensive postioning. You can look up on these pictures that I'm going to list below.

But what intrigues me the most is that the high pressing is non-existent. The opposition players can do all they want with the ball, they have a lot of time to pick a killer pass, or to pass to someone else and retain the possession in their favour. My players just can't seem arsed to do the high pressing.

http://imgur.com/MqzN6wu.png

I played in Europa League Playoff with Sturm Graz and the final score was 4-2 for us. As you can see in this picture, Kainz is put under pressure to pass the ball or shoot, but the other player encircled in Blue is unmarked and he can pick the pass from Kainz. The players that are supposed to mark him and put more pressure on Kainz are bulked for no reason in that group of four, encircled in the Turquoise.

http://imgur.com/RtTqwzQ.png

Dudic was on the ball unmarked, with no pressure from my players so he could have picked his time to think for a pass, or to advance into our half. The two players encircled in Turquoise are apparently marking one single player and they are letting the other one in Blue to pick the ball. Furthermore, Shelvey, encircled in red, has to deal with two opponents. Lucky that the pass was completely misplaced and it was intercepted by my LWB.

http://imgur.com/D27wUXn.png

Same story against Tottenham, Rose is unmarked and he can advance/pick a pass without any kind of pressure. My players are retreated in their own half for no god damn reason.

http://i.imgur.com/rs8WTnr.png

The two players encircled in Purple are marking no one and are just floating around for no purpose. Walker again is left completely unmarked and he can do what he wants, put a dangerous cross (well, that's unlikely for him ) or run down the right flank.

http://i.imgur.com/Ni37Bl7.png

The player encircled in Red is left completely unmarked and if Dembele passed to him I'm sure we were in real danger.

http://i.imgur.com/OHS5aYg.png

Dembele unmarked. Walker unmarked. Two players encircled in Green are marking only one opponent. What a waste.

http://imgur.com/U7bu9wR.png

And a picture when we're in attack, again, Chiriches is not pressed high up on the pitch and he can advance with the ball with no problem at all. My player encircled in Blue did not press him at all.

[Cleon]

Tight marking and the hard tackling (get stuck in) are the likely reasons for silly defensive errors and mistakes.

You want more pressing yet don't use it in the Team instructions, why not?

[xantheose]

I didn't use it because I thought that my forward players are pressing the opponent defenders by default. Am I supposed to remove both Tight Marking and Get Stuck In?

[Mercurio.3]

What's your team's mentality?

[xantheose]

Standard.

[THOG]

Your team has not been instructed to press particularly high. Standard + Push Higher will give you a medium-high block, but that's still going to give the opposition a fair amount of depth in which to work. On top of that, I'm not a particularly big fan of using the 433DM when I'm trying to keep the opposition pressed into their own half. The DM provides cover for the MCs, but the narrow shape in the centre means the flanks tend to be completely exposed once the ball is worked behind the wide forward. If you're not using a halfback who will hold a back three when the team is pressing high, I'd go with a flat three in midfield.

The other thing I'd note is that it's not necessarily a bad thing if your team is not marking every opposition player 1v1. Defending and attacking are based on creating situations of numerical superiority in active zones of the pitch, so for the defending side, that calls for leaving some attackers open in order to concentrate more defenders around the ball.

[xantheose]

Because they're not marking the right players in the right positions, my team is conceding silly goals and I do not want that. Also, emulating Bielsa's formation, I had to use the 433DM. My defensive midfielder is set on DM (D).

[THOG]

Because they're not marking the right players in the right positions, my team is conceding silly goals and I do not want that. Also, emulating Bielsa's formation, I had to use the 433DM. My defensive midfielder is set on DM (D).

It's difficult to tell what's happening from a single screen shot, but it seems like the main problem you're facing (aside from the defensive block being lower than you want) is that play is being switched to the free fullback and your narrow shape in midfield means you lack sufficient balance in the centre when the ball is played wide (which is further exacerbated by the use of wide forwards), leaving the weak side flank too exposed for the midfield to shift over in time.

[Cleon]

It's difficult to tell what's happening from a single screen shot, but it seems like the main problem you're facing (aside from the defensive block being lower than you want) is that play is being switched to the free fullback and your narrow shape in midfield means you lack sufficient balance in the centre when the ball is played wide (which is further exacerbated by the use of wide forwards), leaving the weak side flank too exposed for the midfield to shift over in time.

I suffer with quick changes of direction or against teams who use the width of the pitch with any shape that uses a DMC-MC-MC trio. As you mention, its one of the draw backs due to the narrowness.

[xantheose]

It's difficult to tell what's happening from a single screen shot, but it seems like the main problem you're facing (aside from the defensive block being lower than you want) is that play is being switched to the free fullback and your narrow shape in midfield means you lack sufficient balance in the centre when the ball is played wide (which is further exacerbated by the use of wide forwards), leaving the weak side flank too exposed for the midfield to shift over in time.

So what can be done here, aside changing the formation (if there's anything I can do). A roam from position for my central midfielders?

Aside from narrowish shape, I am worried that my striker never does the pressing that he's supposed to, on their central defenders. I am not sure if this is a matter of formation anymore (or might be wrong).

[Mercurio.3]

You need Much Higher Defensive Line + Hassle Opponents. Your team will press more if you set a more attacking mentality too.

[xantheose]

Much Higher Defensive Line will rip my defence apart. I've already lost to WHU 1-3 on my own ground and that pissed the **** out of me, so I closed and deleted the Swansea game. Of course, I'm still open for tips as I'm still looking to create a tactic based on Bielsa.

[THOG]

So what can be done here, aside changing the formation (if there's anything I can do). A roam from position for my central midfielders?

Aside from narrowish shape, I am worried that my striker never does the pressing that he's supposed to, on their central defenders. I am not sure if this is a matter of formation anymore (or might be wrong).

Roaming only affects attacking movement. The answer to both questions is to push higher and try to win the ball before you're pushed into your own half. You may also want to look at the mental attributes of the attacking three. How's their work rate? Are they team players? Are they willing to put in the defensive effort you want from your forwards?

Beyond that, vulnerability to a switch of play is just an inherent weakness of the formation. If you find a side is effectively exploiting it, a change of system is the sensible response.

[xantheose]

Okay, will look up into that, thanks for info. I will come back with results.

[thomit]

The Half Back is a brilliant role that can help you quite a bit, I suspect. He forms a 3 man defensive cover (with the CD's) when you're attacking, and in addition provides support and a safe passing option when your attack gets a bit stuck. Just by having a HB there your CD's will position themselves a bit higher and wider. Effectively it's like having a higher d-line without any particular instructions to do so. When you defend, he allows the midfielders in front of him to press hard and early - though I'm not quite sure how this will function with just 2 midfielders in front of him. I imagine a 4132 or a 4141 would be better. Guardiola found out how to do this years ago, using a HB - maybe you should try copying him? The HB is particularly useful if you have attacking wing backs, I have found. Some say there's a flaw in FM with the positioning of the HB vs the CD's some times, in some situations - I have not found that flaw yet, to be honest. In my setup, they perform as expected. I play a 41311 with heavy pressing ("hassle"), and I'm quite satisfied with the pressing. It's not as immediate as I would want, always, but I can live with it as it is.

PS. Heavy pressing and "get stuck in" will probably mean yellow cards. A lot of them. So be careful. I use "stay on feet".

[xantheose]

What other TI do you use?

[thomit]

Control/Attacking with Fluid. When I want to just see out the match, I add the "take a breather" TI.

Shorter passing, work ball into box, play wider, roam from positions, higher tempo and be more expressive. This with Arsenal. Swansea's players may not be quite equal in the technical/creative area, but it's not a huge difference. The "be more expressive" may do more damage than good, for example.

Oh, and "drill crosses" if the striker is not a Giroud (192 cm, high jumping, strength and heading stats. If he's there, I don't use that TI. "Float" is too floaty, imo, and Giroud is quick and agile enough to make good use of hard and low crosses towards the near post, anyway.)

SK/d

WB/a-CD/d-CD/d-WB/a (The WB's should be good running with the ball. If they're not good at dribbling, they have to be quick so they can use the "Knocks ball past..." PPM effectively. If they're not any good with either, I tell them to dribble less.)

HB

BBM-CM/a-BBM (For BBM's, work rate (and stamina) is the one key stat. High, high. Lazy or tired BBM's will make this tactic look stupid.)

AP/a or treq (I use "Roam" on the AP, as I don't think he's affected by the "roaming" TI.)

AF or TM/a. (Depends on who the striker is, obviously. Giroud as a TM/a is absolutely lethal. AF if the striker is not a big brute, but fast. Same rule of thumb with an AF as I do with the WB's)

I'm not concerned with possession. 55% is good. Some matches I have less possession than the opponent - I still win most of them though, so frankly, I don't give a damn. I could easily achieve more possession, but that would blunt my attacking edge. Using the "breather" TI will have my possession % rise sharply (and sometimes add a few goals, actually).

[Mark.]

Control/Attacking with Fluid. When I want to just see out the match, I add the "take a breather" TI.

Shorter passing, work ball into box, play wider, roam from positions, higher tempo and be more expressive. This with Arsenal. Swansea's players may not be quite equal in the technical/creative area, but it's not a huge difference. The "be more expressive" may do more damage than good, for example.

Oh, and "drill crosses" if the striker is not a Giroud (192 cm, high jumping, strength and heading stats. If he's there, I don't use that TI. "Float" is too floaty, imo, and Giroud is quick and agile enough to make good use of hard and low crosses towards the near post, anyway.)

SK/d

WB/a-CD/d-CD/d-WB/a (The WB's should be good running with the ball. If they're not good at dribbling, they have to be quick so they can use the "Knocks ball past..." PPM effectively. If they're not any good with either, I tell them to dribble less.)

HB

BBM-CM/a-BBM (For BBM's, work rate (and stamina) is the one key stat. High, high. Lazy or tired BBM's will make this tactic look stupid.)

AP/a or treq (I use "Roam" on the AP, as I don't think he's affected by the "roaming" TI.)

AF or TM/a. (Depends on who the striker is, obviously. Giroud as a TM/a is absolutely lethal. AF if the striker is not a big brute, but fast. Same rule of thumb with an AF as I do with the WB's)

I'm not concerned with possession. 55% is good. Some matches I have less possession than the opponent - I still win most of them though, so frankly, I don't give a damn. I could easily achieve more possession, but that would blunt my attacking edge. Using the "breather" TI will have my possession % rise sharply (and sometimes add a few goals, actually).

This looks interesting, would work well with my Arsenal save from earlier this year, but with our current surplus of attackers there probably isn't enough room using only 1 Striker and 1 AM!

On the drill crosses thing, could you help me with my understanding, I thought that was more about hard hard they hit the ball as opposed to whether it is high or on the ground. If I was using Walcott up top as opposed to Giroud, for some reason I feel like I have read that having mid fielders cross from deep will work well as they will hit the crosses early for the striker to run onto? (Although that sounds an awful lot like Try Through Balls)

To keep on topic of the thread, I agree that a Narrow formation with a HB is good for pressing, I achieved a similar thing result with a 4-1-2-1-2 Diamond.

[thomit]

you could easily make it a 4132, with 2 strikers, but then - what to do with Özil/Cazorla?*.

Crosses ... well, a shorter cross aimed at a running striker, to the near post or the 6-yard tends to be hard. Floating crosses are looser, and longer. The latter won't be of much use if you don't have any aerial power in the box, while the "drill" will best suit a faster striker. The "drill" cross may very well be at heading height, but it will be relatively flat, not "hang" in the air. That's my understanding of it. Crosses to the opposite side tend to come from more central areas of the pitch, and are governed by other passing settings than crossing as such, I think. A centrally placed playmaker will make those. If you're a big fan of those passes, you should have a central midfielder with the "likes to switch..." ppm in there somewhere. I have Ramsey with that ppm (playing as one of my BBM's), and I see him use it often. Results in quite a few goals actually, from my striker, my CM/a, my WB's or from one of the BBM's deciding to make a wider run into the box.

* Actually, they can both be trained to a striker position quite fast, and even if they're not more than "competent" to begin with, they still can perform well in that position ... preferably as treq's. I did just that before deciding to go 41311 rather than 4132.

Back on topic.