The abstract formation thread

[Seule]

I toyed with trying a 4-3-1-2 except dropping a midfielder back to the DM slot, pushing the fullbacks into the wingback slots to make it a 2-3-2-1-2. So many ideas to try, not enough time in the day....

[jimbobBRFC]

I toyed with trying a 4-3-1-2 except dropping a midfielder back to the DM slot, pushing the fullbacks into the wingback slots to make it a 2-3-2-1-2. So many ideas to try, not enough time in the day....

I know yeah, going to plan something over my lunch at break. Just going to play around with player positions and see what I could make work. i do agree there is not enough time, and once you do find a crazy formation its finding a team with the personell to give it at least the slightest chance of working.

[retrodude09]

I'm still having massive, massive problems with possession, despite being a fairly good PSG side against average French opposition, I just don't know what it is, and it's really starting to annoy me.

[jimbobBRFC]

I'm still having massive, massive problems with possession, despite being a fairly good PSG side against average French opposition, I just don't know what it is, and it's really starting to annoy me.

Sorry for my ignorance Retrodude but what formation are you trying to use?

[retrodude09]

Sorry for my ignorance Retrodude but what formation are you trying to use?

A 4-5-1 (a DMC and 2 MC's) and then a 4-6-0 which is the same as the 4-5-1 but with the striker dropped back to AMC. I tried to implement a W-M but, it gets torn apart so, I'm moving away from that idea although, I may try again at some point, I'm not too sure.

ps - how do i change my username? haha

[nerf]

Yeah I like, its just the DL/DC/DR combination I really dont like. It just never ever seems to work well for me as you said you conceded two goals with the gap between the DC/DL and I just cant find away to get rid of the gap without sacrificing a lot of team width.

I haven't suffered much from this gap, but then I am quite happy to sacrifice width. I narrow my team width to 2, with my DL/DR set to Fullback-Defend. The back three and my Anchor Man are all on Zonal marking.

I also have an ML and an MR in my formation and don't press high, so perhaps their presence helps keep my fullbacks deep rather than being lured forward/wide to close down opponents too early, potentially widening those gaps. I don't think that 'Press More' is wise if you want your fullbacks to remain deep.

When playing against two strikers, I think it can sometimes help (but not always necessary) to move your lone DC back to Sweeper. If you're narrow, your fullbacks then help out picking up the strikers while your DC sweeps. Of course, you then need your midfielders to be responsible for the opposing wingers.

Broadly, I think that in this combination you need to treat your DL/DR as wide centre-backs. Like centre-backs, if you are asking them to move forward, or to press aggressively, or you allow big spaces in front of them with no protection, then they will probably be more vulnerable to being out of position.

[jimbobBRFC]

A 4-5-1 (a DMC and 2 MC's) and then a 4-6-0 which is the same as the 4-5-1 but with the striker dropped back to AMC. I tried to implement a W-M but, it gets torn apart so, I'm moving away from that idea although, I may try again at some point, I'm not too sure.

ps - how do i change my username? haha

What roles etc are you using in the 4-5-1, ive always found it very easy to keep possesion in that formation. On the subject of your username im not sure if you can, unless the mods can do it.

I haven't suffered much from this gap, but then I am quite happy to sacrifice width. I narrow my team width to 2, with my DL/DR set to Fullback-Defend. The back three and my Anchor Man are all on Zonal marking.

I also have an ML and an MR in my formation and don't press high, so perhaps their presence helps keep my fullbacks deep rather than being lured forward/wide to close down opponents too early, potentially widening those gaps. I don't think that 'Press More' is wise if you want your fullbacks to remain deep.

When playing against two strikers, I think it can sometimes help (but not always necessary) to move your lone DC back to Sweeper. If you're narrow, your fullbacks then help out picking up the strikers while your DC sweeps. Of course, you then need your midfielders to be responsible for the opposing wingers.

Broadly, I think that in this combination you need to treat your DL/DR as wide centre-backs. Like centre-backs, if you are asking them to move forward, or to press aggressively, or you allow big spaces in front of them with no protection, then they will probably be more vulnerable to being out of position.

Yeah I know what your saying, I may give it another go at some point in the future Keep us update wiht how you get on using your formation

[Cleon]

I haven't suffered much from this gap, but then I am quite happy to sacrifice width. I narrow my team width to 2, with my DL/DR set to Fullback-Defend. The back three and my Anchor Man are all on Zonal marking.

I also have an ML and an MR in my formation and don't press high, so perhaps their presence helps keep my fullbacks deep rather than being lured forward/wide to close down opponents too early, potentially widening those gaps. I don't think that 'Press More' is wise if you want your fullbacks to remain deep.

When playing against two strikers, I think it can sometimes help (but not always necessary) to move your lone DC back to Sweeper. If you're narrow, your fullbacks then help out picking up the strikers while your DC sweeps. Of course, you then need your midfielders to be responsible for the opposing wingers.

Broadly, I think that in this combination you need to treat your DL/DR as wide centre-backs. Like centre-backs, if you are asking them to move forward, or to press aggressively, or you allow big spaces in front of them with no protection, then they will probably be more vulnerable to being out of position.

Finally someone who actually understands how you should treat the dl/dr when using a lone DC. This set up is easily better than 3 DC'd because everyone knows that doesn't work due to the outer DC's not covering the wings.

[retrodude09]

What roles etc are you using in the 4-5-1, ive always found it very easy to keep possesion in that formation. On the subject of your username im not sure if you can, unless the mods can do it.

SK/S

FB/A - CB/D - CB/D - FB/A

DM/D

AP/S - AP/A

IF/A - IF/S

DLF/S

and then balanced/standard/press more/zonal marking.

It's really starting to annoy me why I can't keep the ball, when it's the first time it's ever been a problem for me.

[jimbobBRFC]

SK/S

FB/A - CB/D - CB/D - FB/A

DM/D

AP/S - AP/A

IF/A - IF/S

DLF/S

and then balanced/standard/press more/zonal marking.

It's really starting to annoy me why I can't keep the ball, when it's the first time it's ever been a problem for me.

Personally Id say its to do with the two Advanced playmakers. Try changing one of them to a DLP support, that way youve got someone who hangs back that little bit deeper and offers an option. Also another tip ive recently picked up is to set your DM as your primary playmaker, unless your playing against a side who use an AMC he will have lots of time and should always be available in space. So anyone attacking who runs out of options will knock it back to him.

Have you used the analysis tab to look at your passes and passing percentages? Look who is giving away the ball, where thye are giving it away and why. Everytime Ive used a possesion based tactic ive found I need to tweak the full backs passing length, they are the most likely to just play a big hoof up the pitch so have a look out for that in the ME.

It could simply be your team is of a lower quality than the opposition?

[Seule]

Finally someone who actually understands how you should treat the dl/dr when using a lone DC. This set up is easily better than 3 DC'd because everyone knows that doesn't work due to the outer DC's not covering the wings.

I personally think it comes down to the reality of having 3 players doing that defensive work. With the formation I posted earlier, I'm giving up just a tick under a goal a game, but I'm also not looking for a lockdown defense, my fullbacks have low closing down, but push high up the pitch to help the attack, leaving the two DM's to cover, it's nowhere near as solid as using the DL/DC/DR combo with the fullbacks treated as DC's but it works well enough for me.

But if I could see anything change in the ME for the future, it would be better ability for 3DC's to cover the wings or for a DM to be able to drop into the back line while someone pushed up.

I've used the three man backline in a different save, where i had good FB's but not good attacking fullbacks. Playing DL/DC/DR with a narrow setting is just as solid as any 4 man backline I've used, I know people say "but then my attack is narrow too," but there are ways around that as well. With good wingers, playing narrow just means there's a whole lot of space for them to rip people apart in.

Football really is a simple game, you have 11 guys a side, a whole lot of space, and a goal at each end. You make some sacrifices to make some gains, if you do it better than your opposition, you come out on top most of the time.

[retrodude09]

Personally Id say its to do with the two Advanced playmakers. Try changing one of them to a DLP support, that way youve got someone who hangs back that little bit deeper and offers an option. Also another tip ive recently picked up is to set your DM as your primary playmaker, unless your playing against a side who use an AMC he will have lots of time and should always be available in space. So anyone attacking who runs out of options will knock it back to him.

Have you used the analysis tab to look at your passes and passing percentages? Look who is giving away the ball, where thye are giving it away and why. Everytime Ive used a possesion based tactic ive found I need to tweak the full backs passing length, they are the most likely to just play a big hoof up the pitch so have a look out for that in the ME.

It could simply be your team is of a lower quality than the opposition?

It's funny you mention the Deep Lying Playmaker actually, as I've just introduced one, and my possession has rocketed - granted, I'm using a 4-2-3-1 with Manchester United (same save) and my possession stat has rocketed.

Although, I do need to look at other things as well so, we'll see.

I like your idea of using a DM as the primary playmaker, although, I don't want to make the team one dimensional and I'd rather everyone get involved, especially with such a high quality team, although, I understand that he'd make a great outball when in trouble and running out of space, but then, if your players are good enough, then they should look for him anyway.

[james95]

I have got what appears to be a decent yet weird tactic.

Gk

Cb (cover)

Cb (stopper)

Cb (cover)

Lb (support)

Rwb (attack)

Defensive Midfielder (support)

Aml (advanced playmaker attack)

Amc (". ")

Amc (trequartista attack)

amc (advanced playmaker attack)

It's been very effective so far.

[jimbobBRFC]

It's funny you mention the Deep Lying Playmaker actually, as I've just introduced one, and my possession has rocketed - granted, I'm using a 4-2-3-1 with Manchester United (same save) and my possession stat has rocketed.

Although, I do need to look at other things as well so, we'll see.

I like your idea of using a DM as the primary playmaker, although, I don't want to make the team one dimensional and I'd rather everyone get involved, especially with such a high quality team, although, I understand that he'd make a great outball when in trouble and running out of space, but then, if your players are good enough, then they should look for him anyway.

4-2-3-1 is a wonderfully versatile tactic. Can be used to keep lots of possesion (Spain) or to counter with devestating tempo (Germany), I never really use it as it is to normal for me but It is a very good tactic. I always try and incorporate a DLP (in my LA Galaxy save its Beckham) as his stamina is running out ive sort of fit him into the Pirlo role. Play him MC lowered his mentality and closing down so he just sits infront of the defence, off the top of my head I think he has finished the last two games with 90+% passing accuracy. He is the outball the pivot, but he can also play a pretty mean "hollywood pass".

I know what you mean and Ive never been an advocate for using a specific playmaker but in this case it works absolute wonders there are no sily hoofs up field as my defence always has an option. The only time problems arise is when the opposition use an AMC, but playing in the MLS I have not come up against one yet, so fingers crossed.

I have got what appears to be a decent yet weird tactic.

Gk

Cb (cover)

Cb (stopper)

Cb (cover)

Lb (support)

Rwb (attack)

Defensive Midfielder (support)

Aml (advanced playmaker attack)

Amc (". ")

Amc (trequartista attack)

amc (advanced playmaker attack)

It's been very effective so far.

Yeah I think you do have a strange one there how do you find chance creation, because the strikerless formation I created, created chances just never scored a lot of goals. I also found that the opposition defence had waaayyyyy too much time on the ball.

[james95]

4-2-3-1 is a wonderfully versatile tactic. Can be used to keep lots of possesion (Spain) or to counter with devestating tempo (Germany), I never really use it as it is to normal for me but It is a very good tactic. I always try and incorporate a DLP (in my LA Galaxy save its Beckham) as his stamina is running out ive sort of fit him into the Pirlo role. Play him MC lowered his mentality and closing down so he just sits infront of the defence, off the top of my head I think he has finished the last two games with 90+% passing accuracy. He is the outball the pivot, but he can also play a pretty mean "hollywood pass".

I know what you mean and Ive never been an advocate for using a specific playmaker but in this case it works absolute wonders there are no sily hoofs up field as my defence always has an option. The only time problems arise is when the opposition use an AMC, but playing in the MLS I have not come up against one yet, so fingers crossed.

Yeah I think you do have a strange one there how do you find chance creation, because the strikerless formation I created, created chances just never scored a lot of goals. I also found that the opposition defence had waaayyyyy too much time on the ball.

It's not been to noticeable as I have closing down on press more and the trequartista seems to be the man who pressurises the defence. On the chances front, I had 14 shots in the last game and scored 3, but in other games I have found the same as you that I seem to miss a lot of chances.

[jimbobBRFC]

It's not been to noticeable as I have closing down on press more and the trequartista seems to be the man who pressurises the defence. On the chances front, I had 14 shots in the last game and scored 3, but in other games I have found the same as you that I seem to miss a lot of chances.

Thats strange as Treq usually have next to no closing down, whats your possesion like, surely it is pretty high in most games? Whether that is due to to not having a recognised finisher, the tactic surely cant affect a teams ability to take a chance. I put it down to my attacking mids not having good enough finishing, worked ok when I played a striker AML as an IF

[eximius-vir]

A while ago I tried a formation that had a line of 4 defenders, a right wing back, a defending midfielder, a right midfielder, a central midfielder and a right attacking midfielder then a Left sided striker.

It pulled the opposition over to the right and the team were able to switch the play creating a lot of goals on the counter from the left sided striker.

Problem I had was that we lost a lot of goals from crossing from the left. I changed the central midfielder to a left wing back and i done well with the formation. Not a lot of possession and not as many clean sheets as id like but a lot of goals scored on the counter attack.

- - - - - - GK - - - - - -

DL - - CB - - CB - - DR

LWB - - CDM - - RWB

LM - - - - - - - - - - -

LW - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - -ST

[james95]

It's not been to noticeable as I have closing down on press more and the trequartista seems to be the man who pressurises the defence. On the chances front, I had 14 shots in the last game and scored 3, but in other games I have found the same as you that I seem to miss a lot of chances.

Possession is not actually too high most I had was 65%

[jimbobBRFC]

A while ago I tried a formation that had a line of 4 defenders, a right wing back, a defending midfielder, a right midfielder, a central midfielder and a right attacking midfielder then a Left sided striker.

It pulled the opposition over to the right and the team were able to switch the play creating a lot of goals on the counter from the left sided striker.

Problem I had was that we lost a lot of goals from crossing from the left. I changed the central midfielder to a left wing back and i done well with the formation. Not a lot of possession and not as many clean sheets as id like but a lot of goals scored on the counter attack.

- - - - - - GK - - - - - -

DL - - CB - - CB - - DR

LWB - - CDM - - RWB

LM - - - - - - - - - - -

LW - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - -ST

Can definately see why you dont have much possesion. The overload down that left flank though is unbelievable, can imagine with a quick switch to the right wing you score so many goals.

Possession is not actually too high most I had was 65%

ahhh thats interesting, I was expecting loads of possesion when I had no striker and lots of mids. But obviously your having a similar problem.