Building The Squad

[furiousuk]

That's one of the great things about FM. It really lets your imagination run wild which makes it all the more addictive and immersive

Big +1 to that! I like simplicity and simplifying things but there are some incredibly subtle things that slip into FM that 90% of FMers miss - the fact that some of the old hands around here can still learn something about FM when they're 15/20 years into a save is testament to how incredible FM is!

But yes, I've never seen a player not favourite the national manager when they hand them their first cap! Good that the national manager looks like he'll handle your boy well though.

Labyad definitely looks like he's got some promise - no real problematic weaknesses (he'll never be good in the air or defensively but I could live with that perfectly well) and I'd say his technique and flair are awesome for a youngster, they don't tend to rise very much but they'll probably round out to 18 or maybe 19 by the time he's in his early 20's if you handle him right.

First things first - he is fighting for a spot with plenty of very established players, how much are you realistically going to be able to play him? He is more than capable of going to a very good club in the Adelante and thriving - unless you want to drastically try and rearrange his attributes (he looks pretty well rounded to me - just needs to improve) I'd get him out on loan pronto, preferably to a good feeder with a good manager. This kid needs to play and play and play. But, and there is a but, Balanced personality on a real boy isn't always a good thing.

Real boys will never be described as having a poor personality in FM even if they do - they'll be described as Balanced. Although he could be a genuine balanced - the fact he makes good relationships with good players and looks up to Ronaldo is a sign he is ambitious and he likes his training schedule might well mean he is professional although it isn't that heavy (but it is 'involved', I'll elaborate in a sec). Media-friendly is generally pretty good so he might well be fine. If you wanted to tutor him that would be a good idea and you'd have to keep him at the club which lets you have more of a look at him and maybe loan him next year when he is that bit better anyway.

Now, in terms of training - you're doing far too much. You can set the sliders wherever you like because with just 10% training time devoted to his schedule it's not going to make much difference. You've got:

* PPM training

* High match prep (possibly understandable if this is pre-season)

* Position training

* Individual focus

All this means that he is barely working on his attributes at all. I haven't much experience with such an extreme schedule so I can't really comment - I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea that he is just training Tactics, Attacking and Aerobic but I'd keep a close eye, if he starts leaking from other areas then you might regret it later - Technique & Flair that you mentioned are in ball control which you aren't training!

Do you really want him as a striker? He already plays lots of positions (this is an issue when training, not a bad one but something that needs considering) and he lacks the strength to match it with big, burly DCs, he's appalling in the air and always will be and his finishing is pretty carp too (although as a playmaker up top with high technique & flair it could be fine). I'd say this guy needs a bit more space to pull the strings.

I understand the Comes Deep to Get The Ball - sounds great as you've mentioned you want him as striker. Do you have a suitable tutor that could maybe teach him? Otherwise leave it - teaching PPM's can be really useful. I can't remember exactly what Comes Deep does though - it might just set his Forward Runs to rarely, in which case don't bother learning it because you can set it manually, a quick google check should throw up an answer.

The individual focus sounds like a good idea - even if you see him primarily as a playmaker a bit more off-the-ball never hurt any attacker. If you continue learning a PPM though it's an extra thing that takes away from his training.

What did you pick him up for? Looks like a good buy whatever it was and sounds like you have a fantastic plan for him in the future but I'd just try and get some more info on how to train him. Have a look at my schedules in my other long thread for an example (you don't have to follow my way because mine are generic and it sounds like you really want to get more involved with this guy but it might be good to see a few examples) - I'd strongly recommend checking out Cleon's threads on player development if you haven't already as she goes into loads of depth on how to develop a schedule and why.

[JOSEPH!]

Labyad definitely looks like he's got some promise - no real problematic weaknesses (he'll never be good in the air or defensively but I could live with that perfectly well) and I'd say his technique and flair are awesome for a youngster, they don't tend to rise very much but they'll probably round out to 18 or maybe 19 by the time he's in his early 20's if you handle him right.

First things first - he is fighting for a spot with plenty of very established players, how much are you realistically going to be able to play him? He is more than capable of going to a very good club in the Adelante and thriving - unless you want to drastically try and rearrange his attributes (he looks pretty well rounded to me - just needs to improve) I'd get him out on loan pronto, preferably to a good feeder with a good manager. This kid needs to play and play and play. But, and there is a but, Balanced personality on a real boy isn't always a good thing.

Real boys will never be described as having a poor personality in FM even if they do - they'll be described as Balanced. Although he could be a genuine balanced - the fact he makes good relationships with good players and looks up to Ronaldo is a sign he is ambitious and he likes his training schedule might well mean he is professional although it isn't that heavy (but it is 'involved', I'll elaborate in a sec). Media-friendly is generally pretty good so he might well be fine. If you wanted to tutor him that would be a good idea and you'd have to keep him at the club which lets you have more of a look at him and maybe loan him next year when he is that bit better anyway.

Now, in terms of training - you're doing far too much. You can set the sliders wherever you like because with just 10% training time devoted to his schedule it's not going to make much difference. You've got:

* PPM training

* High match prep (possibly understandable if this is pre-season)

* Position training

* Individual focus

All this means that he is barely working on his attributes at all. I haven't much experience with such an extreme schedule so I can't really comment - I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea that he is just training Tactics, Attacking and Aerobic but I'd keep a close eye, if he starts leaking from other areas then you might regret it later - Technique & Flair that you mentioned are in ball control which you aren't training!

Do you really want him as a striker? He already plays lots of positions (this is an issue when training, not a bad one but something that needs considering) and he lacks the strength to match it with big, burly DCs, he's appalling in the air and always will be and his finishing is pretty carp too (although as a playmaker up top with high technique & flair it could be fine). I'd say this guy needs a bit more space to pull the strings.

I understand the Comes Deep to Get The Ball - sounds great as you've mentioned you want him as striker. Do you have a suitable tutor that could maybe teach him? Otherwise leave it - teaching PPM's can be really useful. I can't remember exactly what Comes Deep does though - it might just set his Forward Runs to rarely, in which case don't bother learning it because you can set it manually, a quick google check should throw up an answer.

The individual focus sounds like a good idea - even if you see him primarily as a playmaker a bit more off-the-ball never hurt any attacker. If you continue learning a PPM though it's an extra thing that takes away from his training.

What did you pick him up for? Looks like a good buy whatever it was and sounds like you have a fantastic plan for him in the future but I'd just try and get some more info on how to train him. Have a look at my schedules in my other long thread for an example (you don't have to follow my way because mine are generic and it sounds like you really want to get more involved with this guy but it might be good to see a few examples) - I'd strongly recommend checking out Cleon's threads on player development if you haven't already as she goes into loads of depth on how to develop a schedule and why.

I agree, I think he does need match time. I am nervous to send him out however as I want to keep an eye on him personally as oppose to scout reports - even though I trust them. In the way I play with my wingers Madrid don't have too many options in their squad. I don't want Labyad to settle as a winger, I prefer him centrally, however he is playing there intermittently at the moment due to injuries of which I have in abundance. This is short term however and yes, in the long term when the squad is settled he won't be getting game time. I need to decide where he needs to be to best develop - I might have him for his first year though personally and send him out on loan in my second season.

I didn't know that about the personality, thank you! I hope that with media-friendly and his ambition the balanced personality doesn't turn out to be a negative one. In terms of a tutor I am actually thinking about Ozil. I had this in mind when I first signed him but need to be sure with myself that it is the right decision. A loan option was clear to me from the start I think, like you say I need to ensure he is going to the right place. I wouldn't have thought before this recent new outlook on FM i have that I'd need to check the manager - thanks for that one too

In terms of training I do have little to no idea. As soon as I posted those screenshots though I realised that the balance was way, way out. It has been changed recently, and changed again. It isn't preseason, but early on. I was very concerned at the team's lack of cohesion in terms of my formations but the results (and the way we are getting them) have been unreal. It has since been lowered and lowered again from what you've recommended. Well I have always liked the idea of a CF actually being my playmaker, dropping deep and using more advanced players runs to exploit space and use his creativity. I guess it takes a very specific type of player though? Agreed Labyad's physicals aren't up to scratch but I don't want him to challenge in the air at all really - if it comes to him doing so my tactics aren't working well. You make a good point though. I think early days I am happy with his training being slightly more 'erratic' than normal - I want a platform on which to build and this early training will define him as a player later down the line. I can hone his training and development in two years once I see him more on the pitch. Is that a realistic approach or am I being too proud? I have since refined his training however and his workload from what you've said and it is a lot more balanced to areas I need.

Would you say this is an accurate description of Comes Deep to Get Ball:

"Will drop off to create that little bit of space for himself and link with deeper players, particularly good for passing defensive midfielders and central midfielders, as it gives extra space to find the pass, and strikers as they drop away from their marker forcing him to hold position and possibly allow a shooting opportunity, or follow him and be dragged out of positions."

Sounds about right to me but you'll know more. I do definitely want his eyes straight at goal when he does drop deep though, seeing those passing opportunities.

Off the ball is very important to me. My central players are all very creative almost forming a spine. I signed a DM that was perfect for me as him along with Khedira allow the more creative players, Alonso and Sahin, to do what I need them to. For Labyad to be successful and utilise his decent teamwork attribute in my team he needs to find himself space to then make best use of his abilities.

I got him for 2.9 Million. PSV accepted way below what all my scouts thought - they don't like him in real so maybe this had an influence? Like I say this is my first major in depth look at a player really - really appreciate the feedback. I will look at those threads you have suggested! Sounds like they will boost my understanding hugely.

[furiousuk]

The thing is that when he drops from striker there may not be many immediate options in front of him and he'll probably never be amazing at holding the ball up. Messi isn't either, despite his incredible technicality, but when he doesn't have options he can run with it - this would definitely be a good option for Labyad and is an instance where Holds Up Ball & Runs With Ball can work despite their conflicting interests.

Conversely, from AM in the formation you are using he could drop deep and have 3 options in front of him most of the time - you could add a full-back or 2 to this as well and maybe a CM if you wanted to them to push forward (I wouldn't recommend this but it's up to you of course). Just a thought about him playing up top anyway - it could certainly work.

The definition of Comes Deep looks pretty accurate to me but try googling what it actually does (I think the Tactical Therorems & Framework might tell you as well - if you haven't read it then check out the sticky at the top of the forum, still well worth a read), that definitely is equally applicable to Forward Runs set to Rarely. Many of the PPM's simply force a slider into a position - there is absolutely no point in wasting training time on these PPMs because you can do it yourself (unless you are lazy and don't want to bother with the tactics much - in that case it's worth doing).

If you're in the season already you probably don't need match prep at 50%. I've never noticed it gives much of a boost anyway - I'd recommend lowering it to 10/20% and gaining extra training time so that your schedules can actually have a chance at moulding your players.

2.9M sounds like a good price - even if he doesn't work out quite as you expect you'll probably make a healthy profit to use on the next starlet. Hopefully he'll work out just fine! I like the way you're fleshing out a plan of development for him - in all honesty making a schedule isn't very difficult but working out how you're going to use it can be, sounds like you've done the difficult bit already!

[JOSEPH!]

I agree with you actually regarding the striker and rethought it - he is enjoying his training which is fantastic as it encompasses everything I want him to be. I've been playing around with the combinations of the AM/CF as we spoke about earlier a lot - I have a good few variants I can employ. Really enjoying seeing both my central attacking players drop deep at the minute and without the attacking potency throughout the middle as a result I've reinforced this with an advancing late into the box DM/CM who can finish.

In terms of training you're right, something I noticed after you pointed it out. I really am quite keen on Coming Deep for him, even if it is just a slider change, I will ensure it happens through personal instruction. Don't get me wrong I am fascinated by the tactical side but I'm interested in the development through PPM. I'm sure I'll just find you are correct though

I am 12 games into the season in all competitions. I am so happy with the tactics and the versatility and different options it provides me. Really fine tuning player instructions and starting to understand the ME a bit more. My record is fairly impressive. Along with a 3-0 win over Barcelona (Super Cup) I havent yet conceded in 12 games and scored around 25, I think I am tactically dominating games (ha), restricting opponents to less than minimal shots on goal and chances (including Barcelona). My proudest victory however was over Rubin in the Champions League. They are flying high, beating OM and Dortmund in our group to be second. They played a fluid 4-4-2 that was difficult to break down - this isn't a common tactic in La Liga so my tactics were proving slightly fruitless (although the quality in players maintained a decent level of performance before I changed them). They were dominating possession and creating chances, my attack wasn't really doing much. Although this may sound quite basic; I stretched the play out to ensure space. Building from defence which causes all defensive players to pass a lot shorter, playing a lot deeper and wider to give myself more time on the ball and to stretch their formation and sitting back to counter. All combined well with the effect of really drawing them out and pretty much bypassing their midfield then tear apart the back four using movement from my attackers. 3-0 victory, hat trick from Higuain and some wonderful tactical dominance. Trying to become a reactive manager, if thats the right word

Yeah I hope the plan I've laid out is realistic and works for him. One thing I have noticed is he is very temperamental - perhaps due to being young and not very level-headed but when he is nervous he is riddled with mistakes but when I do manage his mood right in team talks or what have you he performs at a decent level. Nothing outstanding - he got 70 minutes against Rubin because of injuries. I am hoping Kaka will be a great tutor as, after we've talked about it Furious, he will stay a AMC and control the game from there. Kaka is outstanding at that. Finds himself space and just picks out beautiful passes to advancing team mates. He is also described as a 'model-professional' so I definitely want Labyad to have that quality. Perhaps tutor him after he comes back from his year out on loan next season as, for some reason, it isn't giving me the option for Kaka to tutor at the minute (any ideas?).

I am starting to plan ahead where I think I'll need a goalkeeper or what have you and buy young, tutor from the right players and eventually succeed them. Second choice keeper at the minute is not up to scratch and I want Casillas to start helping me make that transition early for a young player so when Casillas does retire, god forbid, I have a suitable replacement. I'm hoping to chain him to the posts and not let him leave. Or offer him a coaching role - not sure which yet.

[furiousuk]

Has Kaka just tutored someone else? There is a cool-off period which generally means you can only practically tutor once a season - you can sometimes squeeze more but it often ends up running over the off-season which is slightly less beneficial (come to think of it, does anyone know if improvements in personality still occur due to tutoring during the off-season?)

I've always found young players to be a little mistake-prone, even if they have great personalities. It might be that they have a low pressure attribute or some other personality 'flaw' that I'm not aware of but I think it's just to do with age and expectation really - there are probably cases of youngsters who just thrive in the 1st team environment with no discernible effect e.g. Andy Farrell in Rugby League, his son Owen in Rugby Union or maybe Rooney as he just stepped up with very little ill-effect of youth (although he still obviously had much to learn - the other 2 examples in different sports just seemed to be 'fully-formed' from the age of 18!), there will be other footballing examples (many I expect!) I just can't think of any right now :o

Reactive management is definitely the way to go, it seems to be only in England that we're a bit prosaic in our approach to tactical evolution. Guardiola & Barcelona have been a great exponent of it over the last couple of season - almost always the favourites and the better team but often mix up the way they play to make sure they hide any potential weaknesses and exploit any opposition weakness. It's catching on in England and many top coaches have done it for years - Ferguson maybe hasn't always been a 'tactical genius' but he's not afraid to mix things up and develop a plan, his standard 442 was not a standard for very long and for most of his truly successful years he has played a 442 hybrid with either a 4231 or, just about, a 433/451.

PPM's are great and something that I often overlook. They really add flavor to a player and I'd actually like to see more of them - particularly those traits that don't just affect the sliders (like shoots with power or 'switches ball to other flank').

[Falahk]

(come to think of it, does anyone know if improvements in personality still occur due to tutoring during the off-season?)

improvements in personality does happen in the off season, thought I suspect that they happen faster when the player plays games on regular basis, for example if he gets called up for international duty during the off season, then the player seams to progress faster with personality aswell

[furiousuk]

improvements in personality does happen in the off season, thought I suspect that they happen faster when the player plays games on regular basis, for example if he gets called up for international duty during the off season, then the player seams to progress faster with personality aswell

Yes this makes sense. I don't know if personality attributes take up CA (I suspect not) but as all of their attributes are footballing-based it makes sense they'd progress best when they are actively practising their football.

[Cleon]

I think this thread deserves a bump

[lemeures]

improvements in personality does happen in the off season, thought I suspect that they happen faster when the player plays games on regular basis, for example if he gets called up for international duty during the off season, then the player seams to progress faster with personality aswell

Do you find a player developes better if played with his tutor? I often change a formation slightly to get a central midfielder or defender playing alongside his tutor, assuming that if they play well there is an increased chance of liking each other. In real life this would make perfect sense, but not sure if thats true in game or if its just another little detail I imagine works because I want it to...

Great thread and definitely got me thinking. I'm currently on an fm brake til 13 comes out, but struggling not to get the game out again (was a permanent addition to the disc drive for 9-10 months prior)

[R0ca]

Just sitting here watching my Real Tea, hand Zaragoza there asses led me to think Why?

Why am i able to do this? (Bare with me here this isn't a post to boast pardon the pun)

But the reason isn't my skill or lack of skill as a manager, it's my squad.

Furious has hit the nail on the head here and should be congratulated because what he has given the community is a template on how to build a squad.

If you can build a squad and have a understanding of how player instructions interact with each other your on the right track when it comes to FM.

A Versatile squad is so valuable, I've been lucky enough to create a squad where an injury is a blessing as it gives someone else the chance to step up and come into the team. this someone most likely won't be a carbon copy of his predecessor however because this is the definition of my squad:-

Having someone who can offer something different. I look at 2 of the best squad builders in the world in Sir Alex and Jose and I see interesting trends.

If we look at who Real could play on the left hand side We have Di Mariá (Winger) Cr7 (Inside forward) Ozil (Creator). Thats one position but 3 different ways to play it, now on the face of this it could provide a problem Cr7 gets injured and there is no replacement? but the way I look at it is I have to either adapt my playing style or shoehorn Di Maria or Ozil into his position.

In actuality it can work quite differently, Di Maria and Ozil can provide different options and combinations. So where as CR7 is greedy and will look to go it alone most of the time Ozil will look to feed Higuain which can be a very potent combination.

The point im trying to make is by having variation to your players you can really build a dynamic adaptable squad which will give you tactical flexibility.

Don't have a midfield full of DLP's vary it and play with the combinations to see what works best.

^ See what I mean?

[furiousuk]

A cracking example of the power of the squad! So many 'tactical' issues can be solved with clever player selection but you need some differences in players to be able to make that decision in the 1st place.

There's always times as well where you just don't know which tactical approach is going to work so you throw something together to simply try and maximise your strengths and take a bit more time over your bench so that you can mix things up if you come unstuck. I've lost track of the number of times I've hit a brick wall against a team and it's only substitutions that have broken through it - often partly to rescue my poor decisions before kick-off.

[R0ca]

A cracking example of the power of the squad! So many 'tactical' issues can be solved with clever player selection but you need some differences in players to be able to make that decision in the 1st place.

There's always times as well where you just don't know which tactical approach is going to work so you throw something together to simply try and maximise your strengths and take a bit more time over your bench so that you can mix things up if you come unstuck. I've lost track of the number of times I've hit a brick wall against a team and it's only substitutions that have broken through it - often partly to rescue my poor decisions before kick-off.

I just experienced exactly that in my last game. 0-0 approaching half time with valladolid CR7 gets injured just before half time, (which was a blessing as him and the team we're playing awful).

Both myself and the opposition we're playing a flat 4-4-2, Complacency crept in. I thought hey If i just play deep and wide the space this creates between the strata will be enough. Wrong answer they just dropped the midfield back and had there 2 strikers close down.

I then switched to a 4-2-3-1 after the injury and they tired, the pressing from there forward line was less intense meaning one of there central midfielders kept having to push up leaving abit more space for my AMC to operate in. It was anything but convincing but managed to grab a 2-0 win.

Although with all that being said. I think i may need to sell a forward as i feel i'm starting to over rotate in order to accomadate players.

Here you can see my squad:-

Ignore all the unregistered players. They are their to mentor at this stage. I feel it's quite diverse every players offers something slightly different, but as you can see I have 13 players to play in a max of 5 Positions.