Sad Git Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I think it actually takes a fair bit of intelligence to be a top footballer, or sportsman. Are footballers educated? No. Articulate? No. But intelligence, capacity to learn and mental agility, is a different thing. Are Frank Lampard, David James or John Terry stupid people? No. This thread is full of elitist, middle-class sneering and it doesn't do anybody any credit.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Man, you do live up to your username - I was just 'avin' a cheap laugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bordel Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I believe he is refering to FUN level of FM. just look at the games he play.what he expect is to have fun, what is quite difficult(for me) with this years FM. and please stop insulting his IQ, just because he likes HA, or doesn´t like FM. it is not showing much about your own IQ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesjunior Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Maybe it explains why very few top players ever become top managers!!!?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks23 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Errr... Frank Rijkaard, Johan Cruyff, Franz Beckenbauer, Zico (just negotiated Fener into the quarters of the CL), Roy Keane (early days granted), Mark Hughes, Alex McCleish (actually almost anyone who has played under SAF) I could go on and on.... I think that particular argument is flawed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jopo12 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulB75: His favourite film is "Home Alone". I don`t think he is representative of the FM playing public and their level of intelligence! At least I hope not .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess he still knows his (and everyone's) football better than everybody here. I'd find pretty amusing if Michael Schumacher told that he sucks at racing games and dislikes them because he doesn't understand them (well, Steve Vai can't play Guitar Hero and being a guitarist myself I would imagine it is hard for real musicians because it is obviously different. But non-guitarists seem to like it because they've never learned real and correct playing). Though the difference here is that not too many people complain about racing games, so they are somewhat "realistic" and imaginable. Or is FM a football management game for people who have nothing to do with football? Maybe that's why there are so many who don't like it. And who gives a hecky what movies MR likes. Has it anything to do with football? Maybe liking Home Alone proves the person sucks at FM? I'd love to hear what movies FM lovers like then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZlatanFollower Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 :O and HE'S my vice captain, time to sell and move on methinks just kidding Micah, i love you really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hufton Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Did anyone bother to notice that he didn't say he's bad at the game or that he doesn't understand tactics, but that there are too many other features that make the game take longer than absolutely necessary. I don't think his tactics can be criticised too much considering how intelligent and tactically astute he is on the pitch considering his age. In any case, players don't need a great depth of tactical knowledge, they just have to fit into a set-up and play their own game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJdeMarco Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jacks23: Errr... Frank Rijkaard, Johan Cruyff, Franz Beckenbauer, Zico (just negotiated Fener into the quarters of the CL), Roy Keane (early days granted), Mark Hughes, Alex McCleish (actually almost anyone who has played under SAF) I could go on and on.... I think that particular argument is flawed! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You've mentioned 7 managers out of numerous thousands of ex-footballers to demonstrate your point which is a very weak way to prove any argument. As a counter argument, I will take a small sample also but from a very much shortened list. In this case, the 1986 England world cup squad, just 22 players in total, 14 of which went on to management. This is the whole list of 22. Which 14 of them had successful management careers? (bonus points for knowing all 14 that actually went into managemnt because I didn't have a clue some of them ever did). Peter Shilton Gary Stevens Kenny Sansom Glenn Hoddle Alvin Martin Terry Butcher Bryan Robson Ray Wilkins Mark Hateley Gary Lineker Chris Waddle Vivian Anderson Chris Woods Terry Fenwick Gary Stevens Peter Reid Trevor Steven Stephen Hodge John Barnes Peter Beardsley Kerry Dixon Gary Bailey Any riposte? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DJdeMarco: This is the whole list of 22. Which 14 of them had successful management careers? (bonus points for knowing all 14 that actually went into managemnt because I didn't have a clue some of them ever did). Yes: Peter Shilton Kenny Sansom Glenn Hoddle Terry Butcher Bryan Robson Ray Wilkins Mark Hateley Chris Waddle Vivian Anderson Chris Woods Terry Fenwick Peter Reid John Barnes Kerry Dixon Gary Bailey No: Gary Stevens Alvin Martin Peter Beardsley Stephen Hodge Trevor Steven Gary Lineker Any riposte? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I make that 15, not 14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 This bit made me laugh, hard: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I still remember the first edition that had me in it when I was younger though - I was only about 16. I bought myself but I was useless so I had to drop myself! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJdeMarco Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DJdeMarco: Yes: Peter Shilton Kenny Sansom Glenn Hoddle Terry Butcher Bryan Robson Ray Wilkins Mark Hateley Chris Waddle Vivian Anderson Chris Woods Terry Fenwick Peter Reid John Barnes Kerry Dixon Gary Bailey No: Gary Stevens Alvin Martin Peter Beardsley Stephen Hodge Trevor Steven Gary Lineker Any riposte? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I make that 15, not 14. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I should never have expected less from you. I'm obviously innumerate too. How many of them were hugely successful and known for their immense tactical prowess though, that is the teaser? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am genuinely surprised by his comments tbh. Its shows what I suspected for a while now .. that modern English footballers have absolutely no tactical awareness whatsoever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That didn't seem to follow, at all, from my reading of his comments: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is too detailed now though, there are too many things to do and it is too technical for me when all you want to do is get on to your starting XI and your tactics without worrying about much else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> could certainly be taken to mean "I have to worry about technical stuff all day at work, and when I get home, I just want to crank through matches". Like Dave C said, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He's saying that, in his life, he wants to come in, pick a team, and play a season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> God knows, there are times I feel like that. There are times when I enjoy the complexity, and times when I'm exhausted and yearn for the CM01/02 "just click Continue" days. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you are in a highly competative, highly professional environment and competing at the top level of the sport you should have a greater understanding of the game on a tactical level. Else how do you compete? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Honestly, there's a difference between being able to pull something off, and understanding why you're being asked to pull something off - or when to change because the opposition have sussed it out. To some managers, that would be exactly why there is a manager: I can just hear the exchange: "I just thought..." "We don't pay you to think, lad, we pay you to play footie!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arrogantio: Exactly. Real managers don't determine the players' positioning on the pitch to the nearest metre and don't need to spell out what risks not to take when a goal up but they earn their money through observation like "that right back tends to drift forward too much so look for the opportunity to play diagonal balls in behind him, especially since their keeper is dodgy under crosses, and I want someone to try to get in front of their quick lone striker to cut off his supply with another standing goalside at all times, AND LET's HAVE SOME PASSION LADS. Which bears no relation to the FM tatical setup whatsoever.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> See .. people love to say that, but I read that paragraph and see exactly how to translate that into FM tactical terms: in fact, I've done every aspect you describe, at least to my satisfaction: For the taking advantage of the right back: - left midfield, forward runs Often, attacking mentality so that he tries to get in behind the right back. - Central midfielders and strikers on "Play Through Balls" so that they put the ball into space. - I might try "focus passing down left" if he wasn't getting enough service, or maybe a side-arrow to pull one striker out into that gap. For your "double cover the lone striker", I've done exactly that - Central defender on Explicit Man Mark - lone striker; Loose marking - Defensive midfielder on Explicit Man Mark - lone striker; Tight marking The DM tries to cut off service, and the central defender stays goalside. This guy came in one day complaining that he knew exactly how the back six in a 5-3-2 should play, but he couldn't get them to play the way he wanted. He gave a very articulate explanation of exactly what he wanted each player to do ... and I was able to translate that into FM instructions for him that got his defense set up exactly the way he wanted. Now, why that isn't clearer is a different issue: from his posts, it was clear that he was very smart and understood real football well enough. I'm an unsophisticated American: I couldn't have told you what the right way to play a 5-3-2 was, but once he told me I was able to represent it via the sliders. So there's some disconnect there: the tactical interface "makes sense" once you've gotten your head wrapped around it, but if its unclear to an intelligent person who knows football, there's something a bit wrong.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsyBlah Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 What did he say? He said blessed are the cheesemakers! Blessed are the cheesemakers?! Whats so special about them? Obviously he meant any manufacturer of diary produce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsyBlah Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Good post amaroq though, i aint got a clue bout the slider thingy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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