Jorge Campos Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 One thing that appears to be a fatal flaw for adding lower level competitions is that they don't have any match rules in the database. They appear to have only their base structures, such as number of teams, match days, and number of rounds. So I'm at a loss to add any leagues properly. It seems impossible to find information on match rules for foreign leagues, even when they have extensive Wikipedia articles. I'm also concerned about whether people creating XML files will actually add all the correct match rules and other regulations that govern these competitions. I'd rather not play competitions that are not realistic. Also, I've found that some lower levels are not properly rendered in the database. The French CFA2 is a perfect example. All the teams are lumped into a single group, so the multiple divisions of that level are missing. This means that some leagues will be impossible to add without a lot of additional work to fix the existing structure, if it's possible to do this correctly at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbaltaxGrape Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Asking for lower leagues and user created leagues to be perfectly accurate to their real life counterparts and structures is a bit much. I think the fact that the possibility of editing leagues at all and all the other features that have been added to the editor so far is a huge step compared to what it was. Also there are functions to add rules like limits on foreign players, how many subs are allowed and so on, I'm just not sure how well they work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollyh Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Unfortuantly I think many people will be disappointed with the new editor, as I've seen some pretty optimistic and extravagent structures and systems that people have thought out that aren't going to be possible to create although I have to admit I did expect there to be a few more things to specify about your created comp, e.g. not being able to specify playoff venues, those playoffs then were played at an 'unknown' neutral stadium in the game which was pretty annoying and it doesn't seem possible to make the FA Cup with the preliminary rounds either. Though it is fantastic that it's been added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bladesman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 While it is true that the editor is not the most powerful entity in the known universe, it is perfectly possible to recreate most real world competitions. Of course, there are some cases where this first edition won't yet be capable. It's also perfectly possible to define rules for matches and leagues etc - look at similar leagues for ideas, or put in what you think is appropriate. Doing your research will be important if you want to get it right anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thengil Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I can tell you that it's impossible to perfectly create the German lower divisions. The promotion/relegation structure is, quite frankly, horrible there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_football_league_system It made me want to cry when I saw it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionaire Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I still dont know how to set the 2 legs for promotion playoff, or draft 8 teams for playoff from 3 leagues Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan A Wadge Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 i was just reading the german league structure, thats quite unfair were you have to do a playoff with 2 other league champions in order to obtain promotion. that must be the hardest league to get out of! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bladesman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I think, in this version, custom playoffs are 1 leg only. This will no doubt be addressed for a future editor version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Campos Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 A bigger problem may be that lower levels like the German Oberliga may not even have the correct numbers of clubs in them. The numbers in the database don't seem to match up with the 2009-19 clubs listed on Wikipedia. And by this I mean that the database seems to be missing clubs. So it's not a case of Wikipedia omitting something. I suppose that this could be corrected, but it's more work. And I'm still disappointed that we'll have to do a lot of competition research to get the match and squad rules correct. And that's assuming that the information is available online. I was very excited about the new editor, but it's turned out that it's going to be far more complicated and sometimes impossible to add lower levels to the game. SI made it seem so simple in the blog videos, but after going back and viewing them, it's obvious that they skipped a number of critical steps when they added a lower league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bladesman Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I added 879 clubs for my file... We cannot expect to implement massive changes without doing some research. Mine was an extreme case, but it shows it is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Campos Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Well, it's all been pretty disappointing. It appears that there are very few leagues in the world that can be accurately added to the game. I was led to believe by the FM10 blog videos that this would be much simpler than it really is, but I guess I didn't understand that the database was lacking in basic competition and match rules. I thought these may have been included for the lower levels that are immediately below the playable leagues. So, unfortunately, it means that even top leagues in places like Bolivia can't be added accurately. But I guess it helps explain why SI has refused to add more leagues for several years now. They don't believe it's worthwhile to go through the trouble of coding more complicated promotion and relegation systems and researching the match rules. I beg to differ, but as a paying customer I don't really have a say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Well, it's all been pretty disappointing. It appears that there are very few leagues in the world that can be accurately added to the game. I was led to believe by the FM10 blog videos that this would be much simpler than it really is, but I guess I didn't understand that the database was lacking in basic competition and match rules. I thought these may have been included for the lower levels that are immediately below the playable leagues.So, unfortunately, it means that even top leagues in places like Bolivia can't be added accurately. But I guess it helps explain why SI has refused to add more leagues for several years now. They don't believe it's worthwhile to go through the trouble of coding more complicated promotion and relegation systems and researching the match rules. I beg to differ, but as a paying customer I don't really have a say. This thread http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-manager-2010/Football-Manager-2010-new-features-blog-Day-11-the-new-data-editor-article160431.html detailed what you could and could not do. And I myself said in the next Mirror blog 1. What were your first impressions of the new Editor? The new editor is a wonderful addition to FM10. It is literally a whole new ballgame as now users have the ability to remodel the football world to their own tastes. Whether it be tweaking the really lower leagues to make for interesting careers in levels previously unheard of in the series or creating refined versions of the big leagues, or even continent-wide knockout cups, I think there's something for everyone - and plenty more for long-time perennial editors such as myself. I can say quite categorically since picking up the series in 1999 I've spent more time in editors than I have playing the game. 2. How easy did you find it to create your first league? I have to be honest. It is not going to be a straightforward exercise for the most inexperienced of editor users. You have to know what you want to end up with, and have to have an idea about how you plan to get there. Yes, a limited league can be created easily, but there's much more fun in refining it, adding rules, fiddling with dates and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Campos Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 This thread http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-manager-2010/Football-Manager-2010-new-features-blog-Day-11-the-new-data-editor-article160431.html detailed what you could and could not do. And I myself said in the next Mirror blog I read all of this in great detail when it was released. The videos were still misleading, and so was much of the discussion about how easy it would be to unlock leagues that were already in the database. There were posts from beta testers on these forums that also conveyed that idea. The impression was created that unlocking leagues that were already in the database would be quite different from the limitations that we would face in trying to create leagues from scratch. Nowhere in this information did it say that well-researched leagues already in the database would be lacking in core data, sometimes with clubs missing from the appropriate levels, and it did not say that leagues in the database would have no match rules or other regulations established. I'm not expecting the 8th level of football in France to be perfectly accurate, but I would expect the first levels just below the playable leagues to have what we need, along with some of the top level leagues around the world that aren't playable. I suppose it's our mistake for not knowing this anyway, but I have never used the editor much before competition editing was announced and promoted. Oh well. There isn't much we can do about it now, and I think it's clear that the only thing that will ever allow us to have these much-desired leagues in our games is for SI to code them. That isn't going to happen, so we'll be stuck with either creating totally unrealistic leagues or living without them. I'll be living without them. The only hope for all of us is that SI might finally see how popular the competition editing is and start coding the unplayable leagues. They're so caught up in this nonsense about leagues not being marketable because they don't sell copies of the game in those areas of the world. The reality is that many of the hardcore fans in the UK, Europe, and the rest of the world routinely play in more obscure countries and would love to play in lower levels in more places. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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