Ajax System for FM2011 onwards “AFC Ajax“ 1990s (Discussion)

[Marz]

Hey again Marz!

By the way, are you using the offside trap in your setups?

I do not use it, I feel it is too risky in modern football.

Have you tried playing 2 and 5 as DCR and DCL with instructions to hug the touchline? Maybe that way they will play wide in attacking phase and get tight when defending, closing the channels for opposition players.

The DLC and DRC positions do not exist in the ME (match engine.)

Nope... didn`t work..

They just stayed in the center.. tried pushing width to maximum but no change

The link above is about that.

marz:

Just curious how you start with your team in FM2010. I am currently set up as balanced with standard?

I do not use the wizard, in terms of mentality 10 to 14.

Marz:

Any chance you will be posting your current tac soon?

Have not been able to play, and currently also not interested in playing; due to the many compromises that have to be made.

[grimness]

I know about mid-positions lacking but that was best term to describe outside central defenders

[Marz]

I know about mid-positions lacking but that was best term to describe outside central defenders

I used to use those terms myself, shame that it looks like we will not be using them in future.

[Marz]

Marz:

Any chance you will be posting your current tac soon?

Maybe tomorrow, depending on how much I can paper over the ME.

Currently I am retrain my players to be comfortable (accomplished) in these positions as a minimum:-

#9 – S and AMC

#11 - AML and S (playing from SL)

#7 - AMR and S (playing from SR)

#10 - AMC and MC

#8 - ML and MC

#6 - MR and MC

#4 - DMC and DC

#5 - DL and DC

#2 - DR and DC

#3 – SW and DC

[crazyscotsman]

looking forward to it!

Maybe tomorrow, depending on how much I can paper over the ME.

Currently I am retrain my players to be comfortable (accomplished) in these positions as a minimum:-

#9 – S and AMC

#11 - AML and S (playing from SL)

#7 - AMR and S (playing from SR)

#10 - AMC and MC

#8 - ML and MC

#6 - MR and MC

#4 - DMC and DC

#5 - DL and DC

#2 - DR and DC

#3 – SW and DC

[Marz]

Maybe tomorrow, depending on how much I can paper over the ME.

Going to see what the next patch brings.

[crazyscotsman]

do you know when the next patch is supposed to be released?

[Marz]

Normally a few weeks after the transfer window ends.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Could you post your current tactic? I'd like to see how you set it up in 2010 compared to mine?

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Will you posting a tactic anytime soon?

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Found the attached link and thought it might be of interest?

http://www.huntsvillefc.org/HFC/coaches/education/DutchDevelopment.pdf

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Do you have all plaers on zonal marking and the sl & sr on man?

In FM07 I was unbeaten for 2 seasons plus a few games in the league and domestic cup, lost a few matches in European competition. Compared to FM07 I’ am scoring less goals but the difference in squad quality has a lot to do with that.

I do not use the tactic wizard, so I cannot help you with that. The game also has an issue with wing forwards, see posts #68, 69, 70.

Believe it or not, I’ am currently playing like this against 442:-

SL S SR (sometimes playing the wingers from AML & AMR)

AMC

MC MC

DMC

DC DC

SW

GK

Ridiculous isn’t it.

Against 433/451 I drop the DMC back to DC and push the DC's out to DL & DR.

I’ am going to be on holiday till 3/4 jan 2010. So everyone have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

[Marz]

Marz:

Do you have all plaers on zonal marking and the sl & sr on man?

Recently I have tried this formation for a full match and watched the AI (assistant managers) reserve team match:-

SL (#11) S (#9) SL (#7)

AMC (#10)

MC (#8) MC (#6)

DM (#4)

DL (#5) DR (#2)

SW (#3)

Everyone is on zonal-marking (with the #4 on team [zonal/man-marking] so it can be switched from zonal to man-marking when the opposition plays a front 3), the #5 & 2 are on man-marking. Tight marking is set to all but the #9 & 10 (who are on team , again so it can be quickly switched).

Mentality for #11, 7, 5 & 2 is set to 2 less than the current team mentality.

Runs from deep is set to rarely for all players except for the front 3 and the #10 (and the sweeper keeper).

[grimness]

http://www.myfootball.com.au/Newsletter/FFA_images/1-4-3-3_formation_v2.pdf

Good read which might inspire people to try creating their tactics. Good info how to set up both offensive and defensive 4-3-3 and also it almost has written every role for tactic creator

[crazyscotsman]

when will you have your tactic ready to share with us?

Recently I have tried this formation for a full match and watched the AI (assistant managers) reserve team match:-

SL (#11) S (#9) SL (#7)

AMC (#10)

MC (#8) MC (#6)

DM (#4)

DL (#5) DR (#2)

SW (#3)

Everyone is on zonal-marking (with the #4 on team [zonal/man-marking] so it can be switched from zonal to man-marking when the opposition plays a front 3), the #5 & 2 are on man-marking. Tight marking is set to all but the #9 & 10 (who are on team , again so it can be quickly switched).

Mentality for #11, 7, 5 & 2 is set to 2 less than the current team mentality.

Runs from deep is set to rarely for all players except for the front 3 and the #10 (and the sweeper keeper).

[grimness]

Marz when playing #2 and #5 at DCR and DCL positions do you use Hug the touchline for wide play?

[Marz]

when will you have your tactic ready to share with us?

At the moment I feel tactics in FM10 cannot be made to resemble the Ajax System of the Van Gaal era. I hope with the next patch SI will move backwards in terms of the tactical choices we had; but I seriously doubt that it will happen.

Marz when playing #2 and #5 at DCR and DCL positions do you use Hug the touchline for wide play?

Not sure where you play your #5 & 2, DCR & DCL positions do not exist in the current ME. If you are playing them from DC position then in my experience the wide play instructions seem to have no effect; the same goes for the run from deep instruction.

If you play them from DL and DR you could try the cut-in instruction, I have not watched enough full games to comment on the effects.

[grimness]

I'm currently playing with 4 in the line at the back. Using Libero settings similar to the ones in tactic creator for #4. He is moving up to DMC position when in possession and he gets really close to the MCs. Gonna play some more and if it works out I'm gonna share it here.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

would it be possible for you to post your set piece settings for corners, set pieces, throw ins etc?

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Here is the link to my 3-4-3 tac> let me know what you think

http://rapidshare.com/files/340073075/Alba_3-4-3.tac.html

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

original link not working for some reason - please try this:

http://www.filefront.com/15416853/Alba_3-4-3.tac

[Marz]

I'm currently playing with 4 in the line at the back. Using Libero settings similar to the ones in tactic creator for #4. He is moving up to DMC position when in possession and he gets really close to the MCs. Gonna play some more and if it works out I'm gonna share it here.

Did it work out; the #4 (playing from DC) moving to DMC/MC?

Has anyone tried to giving the #8 & 6 wide play instructions of move into channel with runs from deep on rarely (might be effective for the narrow DMC, MC, MC & AMC combination)?

Marz:

would it be possible for you to post your set piece settings for corners, set pieces, throw ins etc?

&

Marz:

original link not working for some reason - please try this:

http://www.filefront.com/15416853/Alba_3-4-3.tac

I am trying to write up about the ME problems; which is going to be very time consuming. If I am not too irritated by pointing out obvious flaws and can muster to play some FM10 I will post my settings.

[Guv'nor]

Returning to this thread after some hard hours in the lab. Notts County back-to-back promotions, much debt to the brilliance of Nathan Tyson and Nicola Mitea. Still not 100% satisfied with the returns from the wide strikers, but its getting better. Dropped RFD down to mixed, closing down, high but a few notches off the highest, set to man-marking opposing fullbacks, tightly, with a high normal mentality! It worked ok, still toying with it. Where are you at now Marz?

[Marz]

Crazyscotsman, I watched my first team play 45minutes in full match mode; and had a look at your settings. Tactic looks as good as it can be in the current ME situation. One thing I would say is, that you should maybe try to put some players who are already on the same individual setting onto a team setting. That would be less time consuming when you have to change the overall approach.

Did you still want me to post my set-piece instructions or have you now tried making some of your own set-piece instructions?

Returning to this thread after some hard hours in the lab. Notts County back-to-back promotions' date=' much debt to the brilliance of Nathan Tyson and Nicola Mitea. Still not 100% satisfied with the returns from the wide strikers, but its getting better. Dropped RFD down to mixed, closing down, high but a few notches off the highest, set to man-marking opposing fullbacks, tightly, with a high normal mentality! It worked ok, still toying with it. Where are you at now Marz?[/quote']

Mitea one of the players who kick started my success in FM07 by frequently causing havoc on the left wing.

RFD (runs from deep) should be mixed for all strikers, unless you want them to try to break the off-side trap; Inzaghi style.

From what you have seen in your matches do your wingers break towards the ball from their marker. Controlling the ball then dribble at their direct opponent (mostly a fullback) or pass to the #8 or 6 (or even #10) for a combination move?

As for defensive roles of the wingers/strikers I prefer zonal-marking as it is more flexible. In theory (against a back 4), if the opponents’ right full-back has the ball, the left winger should be responsible for him (same as man-marking). The striker also on zonal should move towards the right sided central defender. While our right wingers/striker should move into an area between the left sided central defender and left back.

In terms of FM10 formation I’ am playing this:-

#11 at SL, #9 at S, #7 at SR

#10 at AMC

#8 at MC, #6 at MC

#4 at DMC

#5 at DL, #2 at DR

#3 at SW

With a drop of 4 in mentality (still tweaking as I have only recently started playing FM10 again) for the #11, 7, 10, 4, 5 and 2 roles.

As the #5 and 2 play to wide (when the team have possession or not) I have set crossing, runs from deep, run with ball to rarely.

[Zico10]

MARZ, I've got an AJAX tactic for you to test and see if you like it. First 2 tests, watch full match Getafe 3 v 1 Barca and Valencia 1 v 4 Getafe. Looks solid, lots of possession and chances. Do you want me to Pm you or post here?

[Guv'nor]

How are people finding the wide strikers? Trying to get them involved in the game as much as possible, but not getting the desired effect. Cutting inside opens up space for wide midfielders, but the team as a whole doesnt seem to be connecting with this role. Employing a direct style with counterattacking and uppermost normal tempo. Base formation is a flat 3-4-3, with wide strikers FR FL. Marz, are you using the same base system? How are you finding it?

Zico, thanks for the post, tried to use some of your ideas, but being Stoke, theres not a wealth of technically able players. Conceeding that possession is a luxury we cant afford, favouring a counterattacking system aimed at hitting teams swiftly on the break. The conundrum now, amongst other things is, 'closing down'. Counterattack relies on men behind the balll, closing down own half per se. Watching the ME, this seems to invite players deep into our territory before putting a foot in! Could tight marking help here?

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Many thanks. Which players would you suggest to move to "Team" settings? Also, I think my set-piece instructions seem to be doing okay for now so no need for you to post yours. Thanks for the offer though.

Crazyscotsman, I watched my first team play 45minutes in full match mode; and had a look at your settings. Tactic looks as good as it can be in the current ME situation. One thing I would say is, that you should maybe try to put some players who are already on the same individual setting onto a team setting. That would be less time consuming when you have to change the overall approach.

Did you still want me to post my set-piece instructions or have you now tried making some of your own set-piece instructions?

Mitea one of the players who kick started my success in FM07 by frequently causing havoc on the left wing.

RFD (runs from deep) should be mixed for all strikers, unless you want them to try to break the off-side trap; Inzaghi style.

From what you have seen in your matches do your wingers break towards the ball from their marker. Controlling the ball then dribble at their direct opponent (mostly a fullback) or pass to the #8 or 6 (or even #10) for a combination move?

As for defensive roles of the wingers/strikers I prefer zonal-marking as it is more flexible. In theory (against a back 4), if the opponents’ right full-back has the ball, the left winger should be responsible for him (same as man-marking). The striker also on zonal should move towards the right sided central defender. While our right wingers/striker should move into an area between the left sided central defender and left back.

In terms of FM10 formation I’ am playing this:-

#11 at SL, #9 at S, #7 at SR

#10 at AMC

#8 at MC, #6 at MC

#4 at DMC

#5 at DL, #2 at DR

#3 at SW

With a drop of 4 in mentality (still tweaking as I have only recently started playing FM10 again) for the #11, 7, 10, 4, 5 and 2 roles.

As the #5 and 2 play to wide (when the team have possession or not) I have set crossing, runs from deep, run with ball to rarely.

[Guv'nor]

Are you using the new tactic framework or converting to classic?

[Zico10]

How are people finding the wide strikers? Trying to get them involved in the game as much as possible' date=' but not getting the desired effect. Cutting inside opens up space for wide midfielders, but the team as a whole doesnt seem to be connecting with this role. Employing a direct style with counterattacking and uppermost normal tempo. Base formation is a flat 3-4-3, with wide strikers FR FL. Marz, are you using the same base system? How are you finding it?

Zico, thanks for the post, tried to use some of your ideas, but being Stoke, theres not a wealth of technically able players. Conceeding that possession is a luxury we cant afford, favouring a counterattacking system aimed at hitting teams swiftly on the break. The conundrum now, amongst other things is, 'closing down'. Counterattack relies on men behind the balll, closing down own half per se. Watching the ME, this seems to invite players deep into our territory before putting a foot in! Could tight marking help here?[/quote']

Guv'nor, the passing is very short, so even Stoke can play with this setting. The same time counter-attacking is on, which turns your defense a bit hard to break down, and as the team drops a little deeper, leaving the 3 strikers up with 2 wingers always give you room to hit them hard on the counter. The first 2 games with Getafe v Barca and Getafe v Valencia, went very well, and most of all, finally I was able to make the Wingers work exactly as I wanted. I'm just waiting to see if Marz wants me to post it here, so people can try it or i can PM' you if you are interested.

[Marz]

MARZ, I've got an AJAX tactic for you to test and see if you like it. First 2 tests, watch full match Getafe 3 v 1 Barca and Valencia 1 v 4 Getafe. Looks solid, lots of possession and chances. Do you want me to Pm you or post here?

You and other people are more than welcome to post in this thread, as long as it stays on topic or has some relation to it.

[Marz]

How are people finding the wide strikers? Trying to get them involved in the game as much as possible' date=' but not getting the desired effect. Cutting inside opens up space for wide midfielders, but the team as a whole doesnt seem to be connecting with this role.[/quote']

My wide strikers are getting involved, not sure why it’s not working for you. One simple solution could be the influence attribute of your wingers. If it is very low than it means that they are not very influential on the pitch; but this normally improves if you keep playing them.

I train my wingers to be at least accomplished in the following positions AML for (left footers), AMR for (right footers), and all in the Striker position.

From a tactical point, they should be dropping off the front line. To achieve that I’ am currently using -4 difference in mentality from the Striker who is leading the line.

The winger should be deciding if he can make a run in behind the opponents defence (that is why I general give them mixed run from deep instructions); for a through ball. Or to drop off and then link with the players on his side either #8 & #5 or #6 & #2 and #10; those are the three primary options. To help the other players to link with the winger I use the wide play instruction “move into channel” for the #8, #6 & #10.

One thing I try to combine is “runs from deep” from the #8 & #6 and the wingers’ wideplay instruction. A winger who is instructed to “hug the touchline” should be playing with a #8 or #6 who is set to run from deep “mixed”. While a winger who is told to “cut inside” (and probably have long shooting on often) needs a #8 or #6 who is set to “rarely” running from deep. This principle is like the midfielders or half-backs not going past their winger on the flanks. Thus not dragging extra opponents into that space; and making 1v1 situations more likely to occur for the wingers.

Counterattack relies on men behind the balll' date=' closing down own half per se. Watching the ME, this seems to invite players deep into our territory before putting a foot in! Could tight marking help here?[/quote']

Paul C:-

A counter attack in FM is launched when a team gets the ball and there are less than X opposing players between the ball and their goal.

Ticking the counter attack box means that X is a higher value.

Once on counter attack, a team will play as if on highest mentality until the counter attack phase of play ends.

If you have examples where you dont feel this is working as it should, then let me know and I will be happy to look at a pkm example.

Are you using the new tactic framework or converting to classic?

I use the classic mode to create tactics' date=' as it is more flexible.

Employing a direct style with counterattacking and uppermost normal tempo. Base formation is a flat 3-4-3, with wide strikers FR FL. Marz, are you using the same base system? How are you finding it?

In terms of passing all players are on 10 (match situation dictates if it needs to be increased or decreased) for all but the #3 & #4 who are on the highest normal passing instruction, while the Striker is on the highest short passing instruction. As my team gets better I will probably lean towards a shorter passing game.

I try to balance tempo according to, what one of my coaches’ advice is. In the match I then look for how much the opponents are pressing along with what approach is needed.

Please be more specific in terms of how you are trying to implement the formation/FM10 positions. I personally do not think a Zaccheroni styled flat 343 is much use, or has any relation to this topic. My team currently line up like this:-

#11 at SL, #9 at S, #7 at SR

#10 at AMC

#8 at MC, #6 at MC

#4 at DMC

#5 at DL, #3 at DC, #2 at DR

I’ am still unsure if the #3 should play from SW or DC, the same goes for the #10 (AMC or MC). The #4 is also a problem position. In theory when the team gain possession the #3 should move into the space of the #4 who has move into the space of the #10, with the #10 moving into a space opposite the Striker (but slightly deeper).

Grimness has posted that he was able to give the #3 (DC) instructions that made him move towards the DMC/MC space. Using settings similar to the tactics wizards libero settings. I have tried that but my players just stand next to the DC.

In the current ME I think playing the #5 and #2 from DC position is pointless, as they provide no width in build-up or establishment of play. Wideplay instructions are ignored, when playing them in the DC positions; and the current options are useless for the fullback positions. (And even if they would have an effect on players in the DC, it is pointless as they currently start following the instructions from the central position. They should already be in semi-wide position, when the play is restarted; and the team are in possession.)

So I think in the current ME the half-backs need to play from DL and DR. But as we do not want them to play like full-backs a few things need to be adjusted. One thing I’ am currently trying is, playing with a “narrow” team width. I’ am hoping that the #5 & #2 stay as close as possible to the centre of the fullback position. While the wideplay instructions of the midfielders #8 & #6 and wingers override the team width instructions.

Potential problem I see is that there could be conflict in the settings. Going to post back when my team have played more matches with these instructions.

Marz:

Many thanks. Which players would you suggest to move to "Team" settings?

I currently have my Striker, #8 & #6 and the Goalkeeper on team mentality; with the rest on reduced settings from the team mentality.

[Guv'nor]

Marz, what your suggesting is that a team set to counter-attack, will do so with more frequency, even in instances where the opposition have more players in the defensive phase? In agreement regarding pairing the wide striker instructioins with those of the wide midfielders. If they are cutting inside, then there is no need for overlap. RFD is therefore set to rarely for these wide midfielders, with crossing at a premium and more focus on throughballs. Though are base systems are different, we are using similar roles: wide strikers, a 3 man defence etc, so there is alot of overlap between the 2 systems, making discussion more relevant than first thought.

[Zico10]

@Guv'nor, to make my wingers get involved, they are hugging touchline to provide width, but with freedom to roam when in attack providing lots of passing options, and same time leaving that space for the CB/Full-Back to stretch the pitch in attack and is working beautifully.

@Marz, I play full width of the pitch but my CB/Full-Back's, come inside to defend as CB if needed. Just give them "normal play" when wide instead of cutting inside (doesn't work anyway), and thick roaming; that will free him from getting stuck always in the Full-Back position.

NB. People sometimes get confused with the Roaming option thinking that the player will go awol or always forward.

It simply just free him from stick to position, thus making his role more fluid.

At the moment my tactic is working a treat.

[Marz]

My internet is down (I'am currently on a temp solution), will hopefully be back from monday/tuesday.

[Menz]

Marz, how's it coming? Have you had chance to have a play around with the 10.3 ME?

[Marz]

Sorry I have not been playing FM10 at all. If I do, I will post my thoughts as usual.

[grimness]

I'm not satisfied with my libero in 10.3 playing from DC position. High creative freedom, mentality on 20, roam from position, RFD often and move into channels. Still he stays back.

On 10.2 I've seen him run through center and looking for space. Also when I play him from DMC postion with three tight defenders at the back and same libero settings he runs to the opposition box if needed. Drifts out wide and sometimes goes to fullbacks position so I have two players on same position.

For now I'll keep him on DC position 'till I get good enough players for experimenting as it offers me defensive stability. I'm focused on setting up other positions.

[Marz]

@Marz, I play full width of the pitch but my CB/Full-Back's, come inside to defend as CB if needed. Just give them "normal play" when wide instead of cutting inside (doesn't work anyway), and thick roaming; that will free him from getting stuck always in the Full-Back position.

NB. People sometimes get confused with the Roaming option thinking that the player will go awol or always forward.

It simply just free him from stick to position, thus making his role more fluid.

At the moment my tactic is working a treat.

Thank you for the information; this was one thing I had not tried. I will definitely try this for the #5&2 and #8&6 positions due to the defensive positioning.

I'm not satisfied with my libero in 10.3 playing from DC position. High creative freedom, mentality on 20, roam from position, RFD often and move into channels. Still he stays back.

On 10.2 I've seen him run through center and looking for space. Also when I play him from DMC postion with three tight defenders at the back and same libero settings he runs to the opposition box if needed. Drifts out wide and sometimes goes to fullbacks position so I have two players on same position.

For now I'll keep him on DC position 'till I get good enough players for experimenting as it offers me defensive stability. I'm focused on setting up other positions.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Menz]

Marz are you playing FM10 again at all?

[SUCK IT]

Hows it been working Zico

[Zico10]

Hows it been working Zico

Good, very good thanks. The 2 CM's the roaming is optional, by default I left them with "no roaming". Check it and see which one suits you best.

[ladro]

file is unavailable to me zico

[Zico10]

Cheers Suck it.

[SUCK IT]

No problem. I tested the tactic, Not sure if it was player on a short or long pitch. I played a Long pitch. Won my frienldy games only around 2-0 agianst Bury and Newcastle Town. Got beat by Chelsea 1-0 in the Community Shield. Completely Dominated. Think it may be to do with the space in that diamond at the back

[Ufo]

http://www.filefront.com/16353579/Ajax%203-4-3%20by%20Zico10.tac

Zico10's AJAX Tactic

Hm, unavailable too...

[SUCK IT]

No That ones available to me

[grimness]

Filefront has some problems. Gives blank page. It was weird that it was working for some time without errors

[Zico10]

Update on the AJAX formation:

Download Link 1:http://www.filefront.com/16357539/Ajax%203-4-3%20by%20Zico10.tac

Download Link 2:Ajax 3-4-3 by Zico10.tac"]Ajax 3-4-3 by Zico10.tac[/url]

[Guest]

download not working

[Zico10]

download not working

Up and running .