The 2-6-2 Framework. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM08. - PART II -

[u]

Zagallo, first of all thank you, this is a great job and i am loving your tactics.

I have a question, what do you reckon i should use for a more defensive/safer way of football? I just started a Chelsea game and i am leaking some goals i hate to see a world class defence leaking. (i am doing opp instructions)

Do you think i should play 442defend tactic or 442poss regularly? even against better sides. I rather win 1-0 then 3-2 but it is just me.

Cheers i hope you get my point.

[u]

"even against better sides"

i meant worse sorry. (cant edit my post)

[Guest]

Hi u. Thank you. Being Chelsea I wouldn't use the possession or defensive tactic at all. To play it the safe way, try control and reduce width down to mid normal and maybe team mentality some notches. Also reducing the offensive instructions (fwr, rwb, ttb) for the FBs and the MCd could enforce this. The counter tactic could be used with less fwr and ttb and reduced team mentality as well.

The reason I rarely use possession and defensive with good teams is that no matter how strong your opposition is, a more defensive style of play will invite the opposition. If you are defending for 90 minutes, chances are high that at some point you will concede - no matter how good your own d-line is. Maybe from a set piece, maybe some lucky shot or simply a mistake from a DC. With good teams and great attacking players, the aim is not to hold a 0-0, but to win. So I would always start with an attacking setup, maybe with switching to a more holding play after 2 or 3 goals.

Anyway, if you insist on playing it only defensively, maybe the framework needs to be changed as a whole. Then the FBs more attacking style would fall down to a backline with quite similar mentality. The closing down would be reduced then and all attacking instructions set to rarely. But I haven't tried this yet. Think that might help?

[MazeMouse]

I've been using this framework with RKC. Tweaking to suit certain players. All adaptations from the control and deep tactics (depending on home or away and what my scout mentions about their attacking speed)

First season absolutely stormed the league with NO losses and only conceding 11 goals over the course of it scoring 87 with a total destruction of FC Den Bosch in a 11-0 goal fest...

Cup was also a shocker since I had quite an easy way to the finale (nice draws with D1 and low PD teams) where I managed to beat a worn out PSV squad.

Now in second season I've just started the friendlies which I'm completely destroying as well. I'll update as soon as I'm a bit further in. It should be interesting to see how I'll fare in europe with a freshly promoted squad filled with talented youngsters. (I just decided to broaden my squad with cheap youngsters instead of adding a few good players)

I've also noticed my strikers becoming less effective during the season (and during my friendlies in second season) and decided to play with the targetman settings. Turning them off made my strikers more "loose" in their play and started dragging opponent DC's out of position making more space for my MC's who took over scoring duties. Might be interesting to mention for players without able strikers or noticing the same scoring trouble as the AI tries to adapt.

[MazeMouse]

This might not be a super-tactic. But with the right tweaks it's damn near to it

[chriseldiablo]

This '2-6-2' certainly made my team relegated. Well, I play 4-4-1-1, maybe thats the reason....

[chriseldiablo]

Back with some REALLY interesting results...

I love to play the weak teams, taking them all the way to the top. So after I got relegated with the team, I restarted a new game due to lots of bugs in my game, as well due to that I wanted to add my small hometowns team, making it my favourite.

Anyways, enough chit-chat.

I started a new game with my Macclesfield, as I find that team VERY challenging. I didnt want to give up using a formation including 5 midfield players & 1 lone striker, due to that I have hard time finding any good guality strikers to my not-so famous team + that I ahve virtually no funds for transfer.

So, I made a 451 formation, using the mentality from you '2-6-2', setting my 2 DC's on 3 and ONLY set my lone striker on 17, rest on 14 team setting. My forst match of the year is a friendly vs Nottingham Forest, a team I know that will fight in the top of Championship.

I ran the game 3 (!!!) times from a saved game to be SURE this really was working, cause I really didnt believe the first results, nor the 2nd... At the 3rd I had to trust it:

1st match: 3-1

2nd match: 3-1

3rd match: 3-0

All in favor of Macclesfield at home...

For those who wonders about the other "major" differences I have in this '2-7-1' setup compared to the '2-6-1' is that I set everyone on loose zonal marking with low closing down own area, except the Wingers who has Closing Down 11. Both my CM's are on Mixed Forward Runs, same goes for the Fullbacks & DM.

In my former 4411 where I got relegated, I had both DC's on mentality 3 + Am & Striker on 17. I guess this little difference is what really counts?

Let me add that I ran the game as well against Nottingham using the '2-6-2'. I won the game 3-1 there too...

I had my own tweaks there as well, same as when I played the '451' as I really do believe my players & team perform much better using loose zonal marking. I really dont get my players "into" the man marking stuff for some odd reason....

Anyways, good job zagallo, seems like this is really some earthcracker!!

KUPTG, this is by far the most promising theory I have tested! Will be back with more results in my new Macclesfield campaign later.

Cheers, Chris.

[chriseldiablo]

It should say '2-6-2' above, not '2-6-1'. Too bad we're not allowed to edit....

[Sanctimonius]

Just writing to say, after taking on board the tactical philosophies here, it seems to be working really well with teams I would expect to perform...ok in the league.

Well done on the research and hard work, I really enjoyed finding out so much about tactics. It's nice to see an attempt at using real-life tactical awareness and applying it to the game.

[Powello]

Hey Zagallo and all.

First of all may I say great work with the thread and especially the tactic. I am currently into my second season as stafford using this set. I am really liking it.

But now into my second season and even though I have a much stronger side I am not doing as well as I'd hoped. Do you have any suggestions for tweaks for me please.

I use the control tactic for home games and possesion for away.

Cheers in advance

[Guest]

Cheers guys for the feedback. Glad it works well for you.

@chriseldiablo

Where on earth is Macclesfield...? Anyway, hope the results go on like that.

@Mazemouse

Thanks for the targetman hint. I also tried that in my Wigan test with good result.

@Powello

Guess you ran into re-ranking after the first season. In this case, try a slightly higher closing down for the strikers, midfielders and/or team so that you gain possession earlier. I'd also recommend to use a more attacking setup. Attacking or control at home, control with lower team mentality away. When using attacking, you can still adjust via team mentality, width, d-line or the FBs instructions (fwr, rwb) in case you become too open. Going into games too defensively will invite the opposition - and the better they are the higher the chance that they score at some time. Good luck though.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by zagallo:

@chriseldiablo

Where on earth is Macclesfield...? Anyway, hope the results go on like that.

The last place on earth you want to get stranded.

[eltjon]

zagallo i love this tactic...!!!!!!

i use it with my milan, i don't win 7-0 or 8-0 but i love to see the movements of my players....

this is the most stable tactic than i used...

thank you so mutch zag

[John Swarbrick]

Nice post zagallo.

I am now attempting to put together these ideas and combine them with my own theories and ideas to create a tactical set.

How could I set up Rooney and Tevez in a 4-4-2? I know they both are similar types of players so that would suggest their instructions be similar but I would really appreciate your ideas on how to set them up. Should i have one rarely forward runs another mixed, or one rarely another often? I want to attempt to set them up like they play in real life.

Thanks.

[3alawi]

can i use it in 8.0.2 ???

[real_pervert]

Hi Zagallo,

Your 262 tactics set really rock, especially the control tactic. I've used it for my Milan side for four seasons and won me three Serie A titles and 1 UCL. I mainly use the normal tactic in almost all of my games (except for difficult away games against, in which I use the counter tactic).

The changes that I've made to the normal tactic:

- Lower DC's mentality by two notches

- Have my DCs to tight mark and man mark

- remove tight marking and man marking from my fullbacks

- Apply the same closing down level to my back four

- Use more conservative GK settings (forward runs rarely, lower CF and mentality)

With the above changes, the normal tactic becomes more reliable defensively.

Regarding the opposition instructions (OI), I use them based on the team I'm playing against. For weaker teams, I only 'close down always' on their GK and DCs.

In difficult away games against top teams and fierce rivals, I always use the modified counter tactic and here's the OIs that I use:

- GK/DC: Close down always and tackling 'hard' (depending on the opposition's conditions and bravery)

- Fullbacks: Close down always, show on left foot for DR and vice versa.

- DMCs/MCs/AMCs: Close down always and show onto weaker foot (depending on the player's strong foot, for instance if the opposition midfielder is a right footed player, I ask my player to 'show onto left foot' on the midfielder)

- If the opposition use a midfielder in the 'AMC' slot (using formations other than the flat 442), then I'll have my players to 'close down never' on him, as I don't want my players (especially my defenders) to get dragged out of position and leave too much space in the back to exploit.

- Wingers: Close down/tight marking always, same 'show onto weaker foot' rule on fullbacks is also applied to opposition wingers.

- Explosive STs: Close down never, tight marking always, show onto weaker foot.

The above settings, combined with the 'Have faith' individual team talk for my key players, can have a devastating effect at times on my oppositions..

Thanks again Zagallo! KUTGW!

[Guest]

Hi all. Sorry for not contributing for some time now. My computer crashed and I had to wait a little for the new one...

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback.

@ssaun is cool

Great results. Especially with the youth team. Wow.

@real-pervert

Good to hear that you experimented with the settings. I my last games I used Ais that were close to yours. Especially the close down never for explosive strikers seems to bee important imho.

@3alawi

Yes. It was optimized for 8.0.2.

[SkidRo]

tested the tactic out for one match using valencia as a one off building the tactics from the insructions on the first page and not downloading them. i hav enoticed that the level o fdefending is very high. my team was winning more tackles then im used to and at times when my wingbcks were beaten my DC would come across and stop the winger : o

my only down fall in the match was that the other team manged to break through the high defence line once or twice but due to my teams good defending stopped them. because of that i took ti for granted and didnt lower my defensive line and well in about the 80th minute the oppositions scored a one on one.

other than that looks quite good but thats only judging from one game. im gonna further test this in the second season as my current tactic is working for me soo good i beat arsenal 6-0 mwhahah but when i hit second season i'll give you some reports. cheeers for your awesome input on this tactic.

[inkognieto]

great post

[Rocknrollpear]

Hi Guys,

I must say after reading through this thread I was desperately looking forward to trying out thses tactics. After applying the tactics on my train journey home and looking forward to not necessarily a win, but an encouraging performance against Manchester United at Old Trafford, I was pleased with the game only being a 3-2 defeat. We were even 3-0 down when I switched from counter attacking to the more possessional approach.

The next game was against Middlesbrough away however and we got battered 8-1!!! It was the league cup and again I started with counter attcking tactics. I put it down to bad luck and my defence not being great but they did have 21 shots, with about 14 being on target!!! Thing is I beat this team 3-2 a few games before in the league with my old tactics.

Then played Chelsea away in the league and was beaten 4-2, so a difficult 3 fixtures to start using the tactic in anyway but I havent seen how we were any better than before. I dont want to criticise the tactic as the creator has clearly spent a good deal of time tweaking and perfecting the tactic, and has been generous in sharing it. I just hope after signing a few better players that operate the key positions that make this tactic successful, Il have a little more luck. My right back is still a young and undeveloped player but needs playing as my second choice wont ever be good enough for challenging the top table teams although he is currently slightly better than the young Belgian I have. My left back is good but may not have the stats for the job. The Russian winger Zhirkov is probably my most recognised decent player and I have a few other useful players such as Chevanton, who I got on a free after he was released by athletico. Other players I have are mostly developing regens who id say are roughly the standard of Derby players of the 'real life' campaign this year just gone. I have Danny Haynes still although I dont consider him good enough for the first team and a very good Colombian striker in Christian Nazarith who Chelsea and West ham are interested in. Not seen him to be prolific as yet but did do very well in the championship last season aged only 19/20. Both goalkeepers arent really ready for first team football, one coceding 14 in 4, the other 2 in 9 but the problem is I just can sign anyone better as Im Doncaster and the clubs reputation just isnt high enough, thought Id be able to get a decent argie from Recreativo but No. Defence needs improving if anything. Best CB is DUPLUS from Sochaux I think it was. currently 16th in prem after about 8 games, wins over West Brom and Middlesbrough, couple of draws.

Hopefully,I might be able to strenghten up a little and improve towards the latter part of the season, my team should improve naturally as the season goes on anyway as I have a few potentialy brilliant players that are just still a little young and developing. Very good lithuanian right winger with PA of 193 but he's only at 134 at the moment. Good stats for dribbling, crossing and creativity though so should be a star.

Il keep going and fingers crossed the results will start coming in.

[Rocknrollpear]

..................may I add that when beating west brom, the idea of having 2/3 options to pass to which Zagallo explained in the first post worked brilliantly. The winger, full back, DM and AMC all passed around superbly until finding a nice pass to my striker just inside the box in a little space that was created from the superb passing flow and he netted it and almost made me climax.

That was very encouraging and at points looked just like the screen shot with Stancu visible in it that Zagallo placed next to the explanation.

( :

[yugular]

Is zagallo with us anymore? His name on the left side of the screen is different than others...

[zagallo]

Hi yugular. Yes, I'm still here. Had to change my email and account before the forums move to the new provider - so probably that's why the name appears differently. But - I'm alive and kicking (sorry for the pun...).

[yugular]

Originally posted by zagallo:

Hi yugular. Yes, I'm still here. Had to change my email and account before the forums move to the new provider - so probably that's why the name appears differently. But - I'm alive and kicking (sorry for the pun...).

Nice to know you are still here! btw. Why do you had to change e-mail account? How do I know if I have to?

[zagallo]

yugular, thanks. I'm here but don't spend much time in the forums atm. Busy with work and FML beta testing.

That was also the reason why I had to change things around. The FML login was different from my forum login. And for the forum change you need to have both the same... You also need a SEGA pass account to access the forums then. If you don't have one you should sign up for it.

You can find the announcement in the tactics & training forum. The thread is pinned at the top and called "Forum migration - Monday 7th July". Some more info you can find here:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8191933985/m/5372061114

See you.

[Guest rinaldo!?!]

i can't download from filefront, megaupload and rapidshare could you give me another link please or could someone send me to rinaldo_82@yahoo.com, thanks ^^

[Guest julian_mintz]

This is quality...

[Wayne\'o]

in your screen shots it shows you dont play a flat 4-4-2?

[zagallo]

in your screen shots it shows you dont play a flat 4-4-2?

Hi Wayne, nope, I do use a regular flat 4-4-2. Don't be misled by the pictures that show the attacking movements of the players on the pitch. I used them to illustrate what the positioning of a flat 4-4-2 in the actual game looks like. If you watch a game playing the flat 4-4-2 you will see that the d-line and the m-line are not flat when in possession and attacking - but that the wide players move up a bit. That offers important passing and combination options - the strength of the 4-4-2.

[KevMS84]

Just wondering if Zagallo is going to adapt this tactic set to FM09? I use them for the base of my tactics whenever I join a club in FM08, but aside from tweaking to fit my team I'm useless with creating tactics. Would love to be able to use my much beloved Deep Control again in 09.

[haseley1981]

you have way to much time on your hands mate

[luckygz]

so do alot of ppl. at least alot of us here appreciate his work.

[KevMS84]

you have way to much time on your hands mate

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about?

I've been using this framework as the base for my tactics in FM08 for quite some time, so when FM09 comes out I just go to that handy dandy search function to find this long lost thread, and post. Not exactly time consuming, is it?

[lougehrig]

Interesting idea. I use something along these lines with a 3-4-3 (I used to use a 2-5-3, but that stopped working a few years ago).

Alot of the same dynamics with the triangles all over the pitch.

-The two outside forwards act as wingers / attacking midfielders. Forms a nice triangle with the central midfielder, winger, outside forward. This allows you to play a traditional number 9 with strength / heading ability and then use two pacier wing forwards.

-I like the concept of not using fullbacks. They are probably the weakest position in the world and hard to find anybody decent. I'd rather employ defensively skilled wingers to fill this role and they seem alot more plentiful.

-With 3 central defenders, you can shut down a traditional 4-4-2.

I score goals from all situations.

-40% from crosses to the forwards or central midfield from outside the box

-25% from interplay, quick one-two involving the central players (forwards and central midfielders)

-15% from corners

-20% from long-balls / flick-ons. you can use the central striker as a target player and have the two pacier wing forwards play off him.

Alot of variety and alot of interesting angles are created. Sure beats the boring ole 442.