English Premier Division Data discussion

Some  little things from a (potentially biased) Everton fan,

#1 the penalty taking Attribute, Im not sure what the exact number should be, however DCL, and Townsend are likely considered the penalty takers when fit, however they are rated 7 and 6 respectively, rating them among the worst on the team, behind players who have never taken a pen in their careers.

#2 Pace & Acceleration -  Gordon and iwobi should be faster relative their team mates.

#3 Duncan Ferguson  -  no longer works at Everton

Edited October 29, 2022 by sgludvigsen

Moises Caicedo from Brighton has 6 Determination. Surely a mistake,right? 

Casemiro has 14 Marking (One of the best DM in the world,if not the best)  and Maguire sits at 17 marking. Another mistake,right? Heading 17 for Maguire,a player who is very innacurate with his head when recieving a cross from a set piece. Maguire should not have any quality bigger than 15.

Lisandro Martinez has 12 determination,lower than it should be in my opinion. The man is very passionate and determined in every game he plays. He is a beast and very eager to win.

 Victor Lindelof has 10.25 milion euros/year as fringe player. That can't be right.

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg has 9 long shots,should be higher in my opionion. He even has a trait with "shoots from distance" and he has a good long shot in real life.

Bernardo Silva 16 dribbling,when considering the guy is a wizard with the ball as his feet. Should be higher than that. 

 Garnacho has no player traits. When in reality he cuts inside from left wing and likes to place shots,likes to dribble and take 1v1s. His set piece is stronger than  6 ( for corners ) and 6 ( free kicks )  and penalty taking  8 is a bit low. He scored from a penalty kick in the FA Youth Cup Final. 

Garnacho at Man United plays for Argentina but still has Spanish as nationality.

Garnacho has Spanish second nationality as he was born and raised in Spain.

On 29/10/2022 at 10:19, x-11 said:

Moises Caicedo from Brighton has 6 Determination. Surely a mistake,right? 

It's null in the database so will be randomly generated every time you start a new save. However, it's probably fair to say I should have filled in a value for his determination already. Frustrated I missed that, will be addressed for the winter update. 

Regarding Arsenal... A lot of good work done but here's some suggestions before the full release:

- Xhaka should be made more suitable to the mezzala role which makes him so good this season - I think his finishing and off the ball movement should be increased (we've all seen how many times he made the difference just by popping up in unpredictable attacking positions). Also, someone mentioned his determination earlier and I would agree it should be increased - nowadays, he does seem obsessed with winning and improving himself/the team. His stamina could also use a slight boost, given that he rarely misses a game but still maintains consistency.

- White could be considered natural in RB position since there's hardly been a better player in this position so far this season

- Jesus aggression should be 15+. He's a real pain in the ass for the ball playing defenders and often too eager to win possession - hence his yellow card record. Also - he really does like to dribble through the centre and does it quite well

- Partey's long shots and leadership attributes could be lowered down a bit. On other hand, his aggression, balance, composure and flair could be slighly increased.

- Odegaard - I know you've already fixed the leadership issue but his aggression cannot be 7!? OK, he's not the bravest and strongest but his pressing efforts are one of the things that's makes Arsenal's gegenpress finally tick. Take few point off his long shots and add it to aggression and/or work rate...

- Martinelli is not a natural striker- give away those point to increase his aggression and bravery. 

- Whatever it takes, give us Nwaneri

P.S. I hope someone besides me is counting Balogun's goals in Ligue 1...

Arsenal fan here - Jesus 16 finishing is far too high for someone who underperformed his xg by 20 goals at city and is underperforming his xg again at arsenal. Would suggest 13 or even 12 in an ideal world. Also an argument for his composure to be lowered instead. 

That should be balanced by increasing his dribbling to 17 (always goes on a mazy run in almost every game), acceleration and pace to 16 (very quick over the first 5 yards especially). Aggression to 15 (he’s an absolute nuisance and his stats should reflect the fact he’s the embodiment of what a pressing forward should be). Determination of 13 is also low (he never gives up in a game and is relentless). Bravery increase to 15
 

the game presents him as a clinical advanced forward which is quite far away what he is in real life so he needs quite a bit of changing imo. His stats should be more reflective a pressing forward which is essentially what he is.

Edited October 31, 2022 by _mxrky

18 hours ago, josipk said:

Regarding Arsenal... A lot of good work done but here's some suggestions before the full release:

- Xhaka should be made more suitable to the mezzala role which makes him so good this season - I think his finishing and off the ball movement should be increased (we've all seen how many times he made the difference just by popping up in unpredictable attacking positions). Also, someone mentioned his determination earlier and I would agree it should be increased - nowadays, he does seem obsessed with winning and improving himself/the team. His stamina could also use a slight boost, given that he rarely misses a game but still maintains consistency.

- White could be considered natural in RB position since there's hardly been a better player in this position so far this season

- Jesus aggression should be 15+. He's a real pain in the ass for the ball playing defenders and often too eager to win possession - hence his yellow card record. Also - he really does like to dribble through the centre and does it quite well

- Partey's long shots and leadership attributes could be lowered down a bit. On other hand, his aggression, balance, composure and flair could be slighly increased.

- Odegaard - I know you've already fixed the leadership issue but his aggression cannot be 7!? OK, he's not the bravest and strongest but his pressing efforts are one of the things that's makes Arsenal's gegenpress finally tick. Take few point off his long shots and add it to aggression and/or work rate...

- Martinelli is not a natural striker- give away those point to increase his aggression and bravery. 

- Whatever it takes, give us Nwaneri

P.S. I hope someone besides me is counting Balogun's goals in Ligue 1...

Quite a few marginal, subjective suggestions here, which is fine considering this is a discussion thread and I will always read and consider stuff like this.  Nothing you have suggested is wrong necessarily, but then neither is anything I have set, and I have set what I have set for a reason.  Just wanting to check you have seen both of Partey's recent goals from outside the box, though?    

5 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Arsenal fan here - Jesus 16 finishing is far too high for someone who underperformed his xg by 20 goals at city and is underperforming his xg again at arsenal. Would suggest 13 or even 12 in an ideal world. Also an argument for his composure to be lowered instead. 

That should be balanced by increasing his dribbling to 17 (always goes on a mazy run in almost every game), acceleration and pace to 16 (very quick over the first 5 yards especially). Aggression to 15 (he’s an absolute nuisance and his stats should reflect the fact he’s the embodiment of what a pressing forward should be). Determination of 13 is also low (he never gives up in a game and is relentless). Bravery increase to 15
 

the game presents him as a clinical advanced forward which is quite far away what he is in real life so he needs quite a bit of changing imo. His stats should be more reflective a pressing forward which is essentially what he is.

Potentially a fair point about Jesus' finishing.  But this definitely highlights the dangers of making changes too early after a transfer.  I had received Jesus from the Man City researcher and made some changes, but not sweeping changes to his attributes, as I had to trust his analysis, despite the fact I'd seen him play in the context of the Arsenal system in a few games.  I did however raise his finishing as he banged in a stack of goals in pre-season and carried this form into the start of the league campaign.  We've missed having a striker who could actually score goals for a while and his finishing did look consistently very good in these games.  Obviously in recent matches (all since my AR deadline) he's not scored, but that's just how form happens sometimes.  On reflection I should probably have been a little more conservative with the finishing attribute.  I'll give him a full review in the new year, having had over half a season of watching him every week.

25 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Quite a few marginal, subjective suggestions here, which is fine considering this is a discussion thread and I will always read and consider stuff like this.  Nothing you have suggested is wrong necessarily, but then neither is anything I have set, and I have set what I have set for a reason.  Just wanting to check you have seen both of Partey's recent goals from outside the box, though?    

Yes, they were a joy to watch  I was just taking in account all those attempts he sent high and wide over the past seasons... If he continues like this, I expect 16+ for his long shots in the winter update 

@Dan Ormsby- very minor one, but Arsenal's 2nd goalkeeper kit is more of a bright turquoise than a light green. 

Also doesn't look like light grey change socks are included, or the grey 3rd goalkeeper kit (I haven't seen them in-game)

Edited October 31, 2022 by llama3

William Saliba is homegrown in real life, but not in the game.

5 hours ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Potentially a fair point about Jesus' finishing.  But this definitely highlights the dangers of making changes too early after a transfer.  I had received Jesus from the Man City researcher and made some changes, but not sweeping changes to his attributes, as I had to trust his analysis, despite the fact I'd seen him play in the context of the Arsenal system in a few games.  I did however raise his finishing as he banged in a stack of goals in pre-season and carried this form into the start of the league campaign.  We've missed having a striker who could actually score goals for a while and his finishing did look consistently very good in these games.  Obviously in recent matches (all since my AR deadline) he's not scored, but that's just how form happens sometimes.  On reflection I should probably have been a little more conservative with the finishing attribute.  I'll give him a full review in the new year, having had over half a season of watching him every week.

Thanks. Anything on Saka's strength? 9 seems very low. He dominates full backs physically

Edited October 31, 2022 by _mxrky

Arsenal's Saliba's composure is 13 in the game,which I think is not high enough. One of his main strengths is how he can keep his cool with the ball at his feet and he remains calm even if he is pressured by multiple opponents at the same time. 

Multiple sources, such as the Athletic and Skysports, highlight that his composure is one of his skills that makes him so good. If you rewatch Arsenal's matches or search twitter you can find multiple examples when he was extremely calm in dangerous situations.

Sources:

https://theathletic.com/3652063/2022/10/04/william-saliba-arsenal-tottenham/

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12717881/william-saliba-allows-arsenal-to-move-up-the-pitch-and-dominate-opponents-as-evolution-under-mikel-arteta-continues

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rio-ferdinand-arsenal-william-saliba-28133635

 

Recommendation:

Increase Saliba's composure to 16.

 

Thank you,

David

17 hours ago, llama3 said:

@Dan Ormsby- very minor one, but Arsenal's 2nd goalkeeper kit is more of a bright turquoise than a light green. 

Also doesn't look like light grey change socks are included, or the grey 3rd goalkeeper kit (I haven't seen them in-game)

Thanks, @Pete Sottrel does the kits as I'm not great with colour shades.  The database is now locked for the game release, but we can look into this for the winter update.

16 hours ago, momo11arsenal said:

William Saliba is homegrown in real life, but not in the game.

Hi there, we don't believe this is correct.  Saliba qualifies as U21 in game, so does not have to be registered for either the Premier League or Europa League in the first season.  He should gain homegrown status if he stays at Arsenal until next season, both in game and real life.

16 hours ago, _mxrky said:

Thanks. Anything on Saka's strength? 9 seems very low. He dominates full backs physically

Yes, we raised Saka's strength a little already and there will be a change for the full game release.  Strength works in tandem with balance, which is set at 16.  So the effect in the match engine following the minor adjustment should be accurate for what you describe.

1 hour ago, cocoadavid said:

Arsenal's Saliba's composure is 13 in the game,which I think is not high enough. One of his main strengths is how he can keep his cool with the ball at his feet and he remains calm even if he is pressured by multiple opponents at the same time. 

Multiple sources, such as the Athletic and Skysports, highlight that his composure is one of his skills that makes him so good. If you rewatch Arsenal's matches or search twitter you can find multiple examples when he was extremely calm in dangerous situations.

Sources:

https://theathletic.com/3652063/2022/10/04/william-saliba-arsenal-tottenham/

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12717881/william-saliba-allows-arsenal-to-move-up-the-pitch-and-dominate-opponents-as-evolution-under-mikel-arteta-continues

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rio-ferdinand-arsenal-william-saliba-28133635

 

Recommendation:

Increase Saliba's composure to 16.

 

Thank you,

David

Hello, there won't be any more attribute adjustments as the database is locked now for such changes until the winter update.  That said, I don't agree.  Saliba is 21 and is still developing.  While he may play in a generally composed manner, especially for a player his age, he has scored avoidable own goals and given the ball away under pressure at points this season.  A rating of 13, with his PA as it is, gives him room to develop, as he quite obviously to me, is still doing.  He is not a complete defender yet despite his strong start to this season.  16 is too high for composure at this stage.  I could have perhaps set it at 14, but as I've said before we're not really after marginal attribute quibbles, though I do appreciate this is a discussion thread and you have backed up your opinion with links to analysis.

2 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Hello, there won't be any more attribute adjustments as the database is locked now for such changes until the winter update.  That said, I don't agree.  Saliba is 21 and is still developing.  While he may play in a generally composed manner, especially for a player his age, he has scored avoidable own goals and given the ball away under pressure at points this season.  A rating of 13, with his PA as it is, gives him room to develop, as he quite obviously to me, is still doing.  He is not a complete defender yet despite his strong start to this season.  16 is too high for composure at this stage.  I could have perhaps set it at 14, but as I've said before we're not really after marginal attribute quibbles, though I do appreciate this is a discussion thread and you have backed up your opinion with links to analysis.

Gabriel has 14 composure and has made way more errors under pressure than Saliba, not only this season, but also last.   Do you think Gabriel is more composed comparatively to Saliba. I don’t really think anyone can come to that conclusion.

2 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Gabriel has 14 composure and has made way more errors under pressure than Saliba, not only this season, but also last.   Do you think Gabriel is more composed comparatively to Saliba. I don’t really think anyone can come to that conclusion.

Gabriel has 12 composure in the DB.

1 hour ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Hello, there won't be any more attribute adjustments as the database is locked now for such changes until the winter update.  That said, I don't agree.  Saliba is 21 and is still developing.  While he may play in a generally composed manner, especially for a player his age, he has scored avoidable own goals and given the ball away under pressure at points this season.  A rating of 13, with his PA as it is, gives him room to develop, as he quite obviously to me, is still doing.  He is not a complete defender yet despite his strong start to this season.  16 is too high for composure at this stage.  I could have perhaps set it at 14, but as I've said before we're not really after marginal attribute quibbles, though I do appreciate this is a discussion thread and you have backed up your opinion with links to analysis.

Hello, I did not consider his PA, so 16 might really be too high, I must agree. But I still think that his composure is definitely well above average even at Premier League level, it is one of his most talked trait - and a lot of football analyst/writer share this opinion - that is why I think 13 is too low. As you have said, generally he is composed, and I think the mistakes he makes could rather be influenced by other attributes in the game, such as consistency and concetration, as these can improve as he gets older. Even the best defenders, like Van Dijk, make sometimes mistakes from time to time when out of form or have a bad day. 

I respect your opinion, composure is not something that can be measured easily, but I hope that you will consider improving his composure attribute in future updates.

 

Il y a 5 heures, Dan Ormsby a dit :

Hi there, we don't believe this is correct.  Saliba qualifies as U21 in game, so does not have to be registered for either the Premier League or Europa League in the first season.  He should gain homegrown status if he stays at Arsenal until next season, both in game and real life.

Thanks for answering me!

That's not the case in the game. There is no days to eligibility in the player`s profile.

Dont know if its already been mentioned but the values of some of The Arsenal team seem a little high Ramsdale 240m Martinelli £263m and 5 others valued at over £150m

Doing a Chelsea save and have noticed a couple of things, the main one being the lack of Cesar Azpilicueta's name on our favoured persons list? Over 10 years at Chelsea now, club captain, won everything possible with us and is the definition of consistency and professionalism. I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years and I think most of us hold Dave in the same regard as JT, Lampard and Big Pete at this point. If he's not in that top tier of legends then he's unarguably one tier below and should definitely be in our favoured people. I also don't appear to be able to arrange a testamonial for him. 

 

Mason Mount should be a natural at CM, he's said as much himself in multiple interviews and played there all through the youth system. Here's a couple of examples:

4 days ago:

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/article/mount-on-his-favoured-position--giving-his-all-for-club-and-coun & https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mason-mount-names-his-favourite-position-after-impressing-in-chelseas-win-at-burnley - Both from November 2020

 

Kalidou Koulibaly has an 8 for concentration? Seems incredibly harsh on a guy who has been one of Europes top centre backs for years now. Not sure if that's just literally based on that one game against Arsenal in 2019 lol, but here's an article comparing him to VVD in 2020 when he was linked to United and it shows he made one error leading to a goal, compared to VVD's 2 - https://talksport.com/football/756602/kalidou-koulibaly-virgil-van-dijk-napoli-liverpool-man-city-man-united/. 

Another article about him here - https://tribuna.com/en/news/chelsea-2022-07-13-why-koulibaly-is-perfect-rudiger-replacement-3-key-reasons/ - points out that - "Another big Koulibaly strength is his concentration. He rarely makes mistakes: just three errors leading to an opposition shot in the past five seasons with Napoli."

8 concentration for a guy who made just 3 errors leading to shots, not even goals, in 5 years is mental.

Harry Maguire made 16 mistakes leading to goals in 2021 - covered here https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2021-11-man-utd-news-how-many-errors-leading-goals-has-harry-maguire-made - and still has a 12 for concentration. By that logic Kouliably should have at least 40 concentration 

I'd also echo what an earlier commenter said in that Trev Chalobah seems to be slightly hard done by, and Reece James 100% still has room to get even better. Could be one of the best right backs of the past 10-20 years if he carries on developing, and there's nothing to suggest he won't.

At the other end of the scale, Jorginho seems quite overrated. He is a great passer of the ball, but I don't think 18 is accurate. He often misplaces those crucial killer balls. 18 is something more like Fabregas for me, I think 16 would be fair for Jorgi. 15 for off the ball movements seems very high for a bloke who never gets forward lol, as well as 15 for concentration being on the high side too. He's got a mistake or two in him.

Finally, I think Chilwell should be a natural at LWB as well as LB. Not sure what your criteria for a natural position are but if Kai merits being a natural as a ST because he's been used there for a year for us then Chilwell is surely a natural LWB at this point. 

13 hours ago, pidge444 said:

Dont know if its already been mentioned but the values of some of The Arsenal team seem a little high Ramsdale 240m Martinelli £263m and 5 others valued at over £150m

We don't set player values as researchers.  If you think these are too high in the context of the game, then please raise this on the gameplay transfers forum.