Abnormal amount of cards every other game despite not having "Get stuck in" included

Yeah, I'm having this too.

9 games into the season on my save and already 19 red cards across the league. This would extrapolate to 80 in the season which is not far off double real-life Premier League figures.

Source:

https://www.gambling.com/online-betting/strategy/essential-premier-league-betting-stats-10400

Game save:

https://oc.sigames.com/owncloud/index.php/s/Kzvhd0MdU3v4Nv4

Getting Stuck In isn't inherently a guarantee your players will get more bookings/red cards. There is certainly the risk but upping the aggression and willingness to challenge of better defenders can yield better results. If they give away fouls it may be earlier in the cycle of play and in less dangerous/compromised positions. It'll be something for QA to check, but I think having the instances through pkm's of players actually getting the bookings might be more beneficial. Being able to analyse the situation in matches that results in the yellow cards and are players letting optimal chances to tackle pass them by and then committing in a more panicked manner later on for example. 

You've provided a link @IgnorantLobster but can you also mention the save game file name?

Sorry for the delay, see attached.

Nate FC v Ajax.pkm Nate FC v AS Monaco.pkm

Some more examples

Nate FC v Real San Sebastián.pkm Nate FC v West Ham.pkm Newcastle v Nate FC.pkm Viktoria Plzeň v Nate FC.pkm

With Get Stuck In I'm getting too many yellows and reds as well as giving away a stupid amount of penalties. Without it on, I'm getting less reds (but still getting a fair few of them unneccessarily) and still giving away a stupid amount of penalties. Tackling needs fixing. It's ruining my experience of the game. I have stopped playing the game now until the next update. There's no point fighting it, you can't overcome it - it's broken.

Edited November 19, 2022 by ZWS

Thanks for the additional examples that have been provided. In terms of looking at tactics which may not rack up so many cards, it could be worth visiting the tactics & training section. While there have been a few posts about cards and some are known issues - its not seemingly universal to all styles of play.

4 hours ago, ZWS said:

With Get Stuck In I'm getting too many yellows and reds as well as giving away a stupid amount of penalties. Without it on, I'm getting less reds (but still getting a fair few of them unneccessarily) and still giving away a stupid amount of penalties. Tackling needs fixing. It's ruining my experience of the game. I have stopped playing the game now until the next update. There's no point fighting it, you can't overcome it - it's broken.

Agree- and the AI (even though Im aware it doesnt differentiate human and AI) seem to be able to foul away all match. This has been an issue for a few releases now. As has been mentioned just a couple of matches show this, doesnt matter what we do in terms of mitigating it, and Ball Winning Midfielders I tend to only give a half each as they pick up yellows without fail.

I had 4 red cards in a row playing 5-3-2 (3 games) and 5-2-1-2 (1 game) (with get stuck in for all 4 games). Also had 2 in a row with 5-3-2 (1 game, stuck in on) and 4-2-3-1 (1 game, stuck in off).

Since turning 'Get Stuck In' off completely on all my formations, I had 2 red cards in 5 games using 5-2-1-2. At that point I didn't even save the game, I quit because I had enough of the amount of red cards - so it never registered. But if I had,

That's 8 red cards in 38 games. None were goal scoring opportunities, on average they were around the centre of the pitch and random. The players weren't wound up, they happen without any real reason behind them. They are unforceful red cards that end up looking unnatural to the direction the game is playing out. It also looks unnatural when watching games on extended highlights.

I'm playing in the EFL in my save where tackling stats are poorer but so are the quality of player we face. If we compared to the PL over 38 games in real life, Everton had the most red cards last season with 6. Arsenal next with 4. I have 8.

Gave away 9 penalties in 38 games. None lead to a red card, just constant clumsy tackling. 1 penalty given away every 4.2 games. 

Man City earnt the most penalties last season (9). There were 103 penalties in total in the PL last season. That means on average, you would earn and/or give away 5.15. I have given away 9 penalties and earnt 6. So this is slightly too high. 

If we were to class these as "moments" - 8 red cards + 9 penalties = 17 moments in 38 games =  44.73% of my games are being decided by these moments. That's close to nearly half of my games are being influenced (and mainly decided) by a red card or a penalty (against me).

It's not far off, but it's slightly too high. Max. it should be around 40-41% with get stuck in on, with it creeping up depending on player aggression, poor tackling stats compared to your opposition and a few other attributes.

I don't think the formation is the problem, nor do I think the red cards are the problem, it's the tackling that's resulting in red cards AND penalties that I think is broken. But it may be related to something else e.g. the way players are (or aren't) tackling, or running around in a circle around their player rather than standing still, or running away from the player or the ball etc. The players seem to have a lack of intelligence at points of the game that wouldn't affect the game, that then swing the game unnaturally.

Edited November 20, 2022 by ZWS

Can confirm this is an issue. I'm getting 4/5+ yellow cards every game and quite often a red card from a second yellow too. 

I am not using any kind of unique tactic, just the preset 'control possession' tactic. I have made sure "get stuck in" isn't selected. Not sure if there are much other tactical changes available to reduce the amount of yellow cards?

I am not playing any differently to previous FM games and it's becoming almost unplayable now.

Another one, AI is just foul, foul, foul all game due to this. And truly it doesnt make a difference and I may as well just use hard tackling when a more conservative approach gets me games like this.

 

 

 

Southampton v Tottenham.pkm

Appreciate the provision of additional information, it all helps with the QA team investigating issues like this. 

I've had 5 two footed lounges in one season with 7 to play. Not even an second booking sending offs always straight reds for crazy lunges. team is not setup to be in anyway aggressive. It ridiculous

A bug I came here to report as I've definitely experienced this.

 

11 competitive games and I've had 34 yellows and 2 reds (1 straight). 

got 2 straight reds in same match, after previous 2 games getting straight reds for lunges. And almost 90 percent of derby games human player will get sent off or give a penalty away

There should have been a hotfix for this, it ruins the game

10 Games in and 4 Red Cards? 

 

Get Stuck In is not part of the instructions. 

 

Another 6 fouls to me 15 to oppo, dominated game, and reduced pressing as didnt need to but still very unbalanced. Bellinghams yellow and my 3rd was actually the 4th foul we'd made too.

Tottenham v FK Austria Vienna.pkm

6-0 Win- I toned down my pressing after 2 early goals, 74% possession:

Me: 12 Fouls 3 Yellows

2 of my yellows are for first and only offences:

 

Them: 32 fouls, 3 yellows.

Clear Persistent fouling from the AI:

Clear from the highlights that the AI just hard tackles and fouls away all game without a care as they arent being punished for racking up a foul every 3 minutes.

It really doesnt feel like a level playing field, and its quite annoying taking into consideration keeping yellows down only to see the opposition get away with this time and time again.

Tottenham v Watford.pkm

Another- the AI have kicked lumps out of me all game. Sessignon injured with a horrendous tackle and no card.

 

 

Both my yellows are for first and only fouls:

Starting to feel like the new improved AI this year is simply that the game cheats. This really needs to be fixed.

 

 

Southampton v Tottenham.pkm

The yellow/red card frequency in FM23 is similar to real life. We believe this could be related to the tactics that you guys are using. 

Can you show us the tactics you are using for the matches in that you receive many cards, please?

On 30/11/2022 at 10:45, Jimmy Wong said:

The yellow/red card frequency in FM23 is similar to real life. We believe this could be related to the tactics that you guys are using. 

Can you show us the tactics you are using for the matches in that you receive many cards, please?

Sorry thought that was in the PKMs. Anyway another- all my yellows are from first fouls:

 

Opposition- not the same issue despite 30 fouls in the game:

31 fouls to 11- surely this isnt my tactic when the opposition are fouling away all game:

 

Attached my tactic (this just after so you can also see 2 of my players have been injured by the persistent fouling) , and screenshot:

 

The data hub suggests my tactic is fine:

And Im clearly the most fouled team:

Respectfully I think you need to look at this from why in games I'm dominating and have no need to win the ball back or risk fouls that the distribution of cards allows the opponent to foul away all game without penalty.

Your point that yellow and reds are close to real life, hints that the refs are allowing silly numbers of persistent fouls without punishment because its aiming or somehow locked into keeping card numbers realistic rather than have refs punish by merit.

433upload.fmf Tottenham v Burnley.pkm

them making fouls left, right and center

4 of my last 5 matches.

Two fines for ill-discipline. 

 

EDIT: to include tactics. Didn't see SI feedback comment before posting. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Jackk!

Does the team think these numbers are normal? really? I already shared this issue with the team during the beta period. It's a disgrace that it still hasn't improved.

Just to add, Ive now tried taking off tight marking on my strikers and midfielders, also dropping pressing to slightly more often and same thing.

Can almost guarantee that one of my players will pick up a yellow card off the first foul and within the first 5 minutes.

All for there being a tactical fix but this seems highly unlikely from what we are posting.

 I think in the current game the chance to get a yellow for each foul made is way too high.

Here are some match stats for Manuel Akanji. His dirtiness is 8 which is fairly good.

But you can see in three games he got booked for only one single foul made which is ridiculous.

 

BTW, don't use the total number of cards in the league as execuse.

If I choose to simulate all matches until the end of the season, I will get less cards. So it's the match engine issue.

Edited December 7, 2022 by nicholas.shen