Possession issue

Issue #2

AC Milan - Fiorentina.pkm

30 minutes, Milan won 3-0, possession 48/52 (was 46/54 few minutes before). Opposite team had zero shots.

Full game is 6-0. 51/49 %, shots 14/7

Our passing is 435 (very low for this style if compare with FM22), opposite 395

Issue #3

Salento - AC Milan.pkm

Oppostite team scored quick goal by penalty. No attacks more in first 30 minutes for them.  Milan had 5 shots, 3 on target, xG 1.03, total ball control. Real numbers - 57% in control minute (30), but lower % in prev minutes. 

Minute 72 - after penalty/goal opposite team had no shots at all, but possession is 58% only (more typical is 65% and higher) for this moment.

75-90, opposite team switched something and start to dominate

Passin 530/411

Issue #4

I turned off 'counter' for better possession. Changed Mez(a) -> Mez(s) and replayed Brianza - Milan.

I won 0-3, my possession just 45%

Brianza - AC Milan 2.pkm

In other hand in next game this tactic made amazing 72% of possession! Salento - AC Milan 2.pkm and 57% on Old Trafford Man UFC - AC Milan.pkm

Edited October 27, 2023 by Novem9

Issue #5

Bologna - AC Milan.pkm

519 passes and just 52% of possession

Also I noticed my style always Gegenpress. Before it was Vertical Tiki-Taka, Tiki-taka or Possession under control (or something like this). I believe it linked with this issue

Yea, I'm noticing this too, much lower passing volumes as well. Think it might be in part because of the constant heavy touches players take causing them to lose the ball all the time, especially wingers, so once the ball goes out wide, it's difficult to see it get recycled.

I’m having the same issue with a 433 tactic (1DM 2 CM) … Very difficult to mantain possession even with very short passing and tempo and work ball into box 

Noticed this as well. It seems like a similar issue that you mentioned from FM22 (sharing the thread in case it can be used as some sort of reference) .
 

It appears that teams are more passive and prefer to pass the ball around the back without going past the center and in turn our players unable to press well enough/the press isn't effective to prevent this. I've tried multiple ways to counter this - more aggressive pressing/tempo, trying to go heavy up top with up to 7 players playing in advanced positions but at best we settle for 50/50% possession while the AI has 0 shots on goal all game.

If more examples are needed besides the ones from OP I can also do some tests and send some pkms.

Adding this pkm to the thread

FC Blau-Weiß Linz v FC RB Salzburg.pkm

Another one

Wolfsberger AC v FC RB Salzburg.pkm

In response to the points raised by the OP, we'll continue monitoring this and seeing if we can finetune the ME to make things appear more realistic stat wise. The ME is a very difficult to balance - it's not just a case of making some possession based improvements and then fixing the issue, every change has the potential to cause more severe knock-on ones. 

We'll continue to make some changes and hopefully you notice improvements in the next version. 

 

24 минуты назад, Kyle Brown сказал:

In response to the points raised by the OP, we'll continue monitoring this and seeing if we can finetune the ME to make things appear more realistic stat wise. The ME is a very difficult to balance - it's not just a case of making some possession based improvements and then fixing the issue, every change has the potential to cause more severe knock-on ones. 

We'll continue to make some changes and hopefully you notice improvements in the next version. 

 

Feel free to ask me more pkms or some any details. I want to pay your attention for issue#4, 72% possession in next league game + 57% vs Man Utd away, but just 45% with victory 3-0 - this is strange

I'm no expert but il add a pkm too. 

It says i had 48% possession but looking at the game it looks like I had more.

It seems my players just don't press enough even though my TI's are all maxed out. In the game before this, I played against Man U and had 62% possession.

I'm sure it's just my tactics but I've had quite a lot of games and the possession stat doesn't seem right. Like I said I'm no tactical expert but this tactic is designed to keep possession and I am a far superior team. Many thanks.

Barcelona v Vigo.pkm

I also noticed this issue, and unfortunately I cannot provide PKM. I played Bayern Munich, and the entire game was almost an offensive and defensive drill in the opponent's half of the pitch, but the statistical data shows that I only had about 40% ball control rate throughout the game, while in reality it should be around 60-70%.

Here's another contribution.

Looking at the other stats, there's no credible reason for Brighton having 38% possession in this game.

 

Brighton - Wolves.pkm

 

On 04/11/2023 at 00:14, borreicho said:

Here's another contribution.

Looking at the other stats, there's no credible reason for Brighton having 38% possession in this game.

 

Brighton - Wolves.pkm

 

On 03/11/2023 at 15:17, gunnersguy said:

I'm no expert but il add a pkm too. 

It says i had 48% possession but looking at the game it looks like I had more.

It seems my players just don't press enough even though my TI's are all maxed out. In the game before this, I played against Man U and had 62% possession.

I'm sure it's just my tactics but I've had quite a lot of games and the possession stat doesn't seem right. Like I said I'm no tactical expert but this tactic is designed to keep possession and I am a far superior team. Many thanks.

Barcelona v Vigo.pkm

Just to clear up one thing that seems to be getting repeated incorrectly in this thread.

Possession in FM and by lots of stats companies is calculated by the number of passes completed by a team, divided by the overall passes completed in the match then brought to a whole number. This is how it's done in real life up until very recent years where a few stats companies have started to go off on their own direction with some complexity on top but still with this as a large factor in how it's calculated. 

So there is actually a credible reason why Brighton have 38% possession in this game it's because they have completed 333 passes vs Wolves 545. 

Total passes = 878

Brighton Possession = 333 Divided by 878, X 100 = 37.92% rounded up to 38% Possession.

Old possession (Literal time on ball like a chess clock) hasn't been used since 2009 in real life and it is still in FM under the name "Ball share" 

Hi

I know how possession is calculated.

The thing is, tough, I've seen a lot of football matches and there aren't many were the team that dominates it (in this case makes more than 20 shots, has 12 corners, etc) doesn't also have superior possession. 

Also, the screenshot and the game I gave as example isn't the exception. It's almost the rule. Specially in away games (altough the screenshot is from a home game).

But I recall this being an issue previous years, or at least last year, and it got fixed in an update.

Thanks 

FM team will this bug be fixed? its ridiculous to have tiki taka or control possession in tactics and not being able to actually do that! my team cant get over 45% of possession and around 400 passes, I loaded up the same tactic from FM23 where I had 60% and more possession and over 600 passes per game, its out of this world to think I beat a last place team 6-0 and have less possession and passes then them, this needs to be fixed asap!

What I don’t get is that the AI seems to have no trouble keeping possession; when I put my assistant manager in for a game my team completely outplay the opposition winning 4-0 with 70% possession but when I play it I get 42% possession and lose.  The other day I played one match and couldn’t touch the ball, then I put my assistant manager in charge for the same game, same tactics and same lineup he gets 78% away from home winning 2-0!! 

Mind you the FM 23 and FM 24 match engine is far better than previous ones which was like pulling teeth trying to get your players to do anything .

I agree with OP. Underdog teams have way too much possession and pass completion ratio. Especially against 3 Defender sides it's impossible to win the possession game even as much bigger team. I fixed that by somehow creating an so far invincible 3-2-2-3 myself.

The pass completion ratio is glaringly broken. I usually see % around 90%, rarely below 85% and almost never below 80% even against lower league sides in cup matches resulting in high possession. For me it feels like there's something wrong with the waste time TI.

Edited November 21, 2023 by SenorKraut

Is this still under review? I think the match engine is very good actually and if SI also believes it is balanced and doesn’t plan any big change for now it would be nice to know. Don’t really want to spend my time trying to implement a style of football that doesn’t seem compatible with the current match engine.

I know it’s not a black-and-white issue like that and you’re busy people and have many other areas of the game you have to work on. Many thanks.

1 hour ago, gunnersguy said:

Is this still under review? I think the match engine is very good actually and if SI also believes it is balanced and doesn’t plan any big change for now it would be nice to know. Don’t really want to spend my time trying to implement a style of football that doesn’t seem compatible with the current match engine.

I know it’s not a black-and-white issue like that and you’re busy people and have many other areas of the game you have to work on. Many thanks.

if you think when I with Barcelona beat some small team like Getafe 5-0 and have over 20 shots on goal and they only have one shot but still have more possession then me and more passes you dont know anything about football! and I am not saying its just one match, its all the matches like that and I play a tiki taka play style which should have at least vs low teams more then 60% of possession and twice or triple the amount of passes, not the other way around, for me that is bad match engine and I play this game since 2002

I am joining this band wagon - atm it seems impossible to create a team that can consistently dominate possession. I have some of the best midfielders in the world, currently in my 4th season in FM24 and I am still struggling to make that happen. Until reading this I thought it is my tactics so I tried several variants, self made and downloaded tactics and all provide simillar results. You dominate one game 70%-80% possesion only to crap your pants next game with 40%. The interesting part is that it's not always related to how strong the opposition is - it is true it happens more often against stronger teams but sometimes you just end up 40% against the last team in your league which is not even set up to hold the ball. Hope the fix comes soon enough!

For anyone struggling with this - I am coming back with some workarounds that worked for me after additional testing.

Some context: Looking at the analytics it seems that in most situations the opposing team has a lot of possesion in their own half, particularly around defenders and DMs. In my case it doesn't help that I play a 4-3-3 DM Wide which means that the opposing team will always have superior numbers in their own half. A high pressing style doesn't seem to do much of a difference (I believe this is the issue here and hopefully SI will fix it with the next patch).

Here's what I'm doing:

- I've set everyone from the middle up (so midfielders, wingers and strikers) to "Close down more". If you are already playing a "More urgent" or "Much more urgent" pressing style, drop it down a notch, add the "Close down more" PIs then move it back up to your initial setting

- When I don't have a stable superior possesion by min 30 - I start aplying PIs to man mark most of the opposing players (I use "Mark specific position" and not "Mark specific player"). Depending on the opposition's formation, I usually mark everyone except one of their CDs (the one with weakest passing/control ability if they play with 4 atb) and except their strikers. So basically I end up with everyone except my CD's and my GK to man mark specific position.  This seems to do a world of difference! Now this is extremely tedious and you have to keep close attention to changes in the opposing team's formation otherwise you're in for a bad time. I really do hope that SI fixes pressing so this becomes more of a tool to tactically edge the other manager rather than the norm.

On 29/11/2023 at 20:28, ontiu17 said:

For anyone struggling with this - I am coming back with some workarounds that worked for me after additional testing.

Some context: Looking at the analytics it seems that in most situations the opposing team has a lot of possesion in their own half, particularly around defenders and DMs. In my case it doesn't help that I play a 4-3-3 DM Wide which means that the opposing team will always have superior numbers in their own half. A high pressing style doesn't seem to do much of a difference (I believe this is the issue here and hopefully SI will fix it with the next patch).

Here's what I'm doing:

- I've set everyone from the middle up (so midfielders, wingers and strikers) to "Close down more". If you are already playing a "More urgent" or "Much more urgent" pressing style, drop it down a notch, add the "Close down more" PIs then move it back up to your initial setting

- When I don't have a stable superior possesion by min 30 - I start aplying PIs to man mark most of the opposing players (I use "Mark specific position" and not "Mark specific player"). Depending on the opposition's formation, I usually mark everyone except one of their CDs (the one with weakest passing/control ability if they play with 4 atb) and except their strikers. So basically I end up with everyone except my CD's and my GK to man mark specific position.  This seems to do a world of difference! Now this is extremely tedious and you have to keep close attention to changes in the opposing team's formation otherwise you're in for a bad time. I really do hope that SI fixes pressing so this becomes more of a tool to tactically edge the other manager rather than the norm.

yes you can play around, but making tactics then dont make sense are bad for the game, in the last 10 years it was close to reality, at least from that side no its not, that is a shame for this game!

it doesn't help that every AI manager in this edition either plays a 5 at the back, or a tactic with both an IWB and an IFB.