Need some Input on my 4-2-3-1 w/ Chelsea (I Can't Score :( )

Hey Everybody,

I'll try and make this as quick but as detailed as possible. I'm in my second season at Chelsea and won the league last year with high goal differential and some generally good play. My tactic in the new season though doesn't seem to be working as well and I really didn't change much. It just seems I'm not creating as many clear cut chances as I'd like and I've even but beaten in possession recently by what I'd consider lesser teams.

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 in which my goal is to control the midfield, control possession, and score mostly by through balls from the midfield, but I'm happy with low crosses too. I'll post screen shots so you can see my set up and a couple recent results. I just feel like I'm not creating enough goal scoring chances as I'd like certainly not scoring as many goals as I'd like. Any suggestions can help, thanks fellas!

In terms of PI's, don't really have much except Costa is given license to run into the channels

I don't think your instructions match what you've said you want, and I don't think your roles&duties compliment your instructions.

I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 in which my goal is to control the midfield, control possession, and score mostly by through balls from the midfield, but I'm happy with low crosses too.

Retain Possession reduces risky passes (through balls) but you've got all three attacking midfielders making forward runs often. Players will be looking for high percentage passes but your attack is effectively running away from the rest of the team leaving limited options, especially when you've ask them to play at a high tempo so will take less time to look for options.

If you want players making lots of forward runs then you need players able to play them through, even if you remove "Retain Possession" who's going to do that with the roles & duties you've selected?

Just so you know, Automatic duty just selects Defend, Support or Attack duty depending on your team mentality, so on Control it will be support. Your two FB-S will make you less open to counter down the flanks, but won't offer much to your attack as often. You lack runners from deep and only have runners from attacking midfield so lacks some variety.

Changes i'd consider:

1) Remove Retain Possession, High Tempo and Be More Expressive. Allow your players to play balls to the runners. You want to control possession which High Tempo will hurt, . Fluid gives a good amount of creative freedom, I don't think you need more.

2) Change either your AML to IF-S or AMC to AP-S. Have an extra creator for the runners.

3) Change DL to WB-S to offer a more consistent runner from deep rather than all from AMC. Should stretch things and make more space whichever option you decide from point 2.

4) Matic isn't the most mobile player, and his partner is allowed to roam from position (can move further away) potentially leaving a lot of space for Matic to defend. Keep an eye out for this if your getting counter attacked.

5) Increase pressing and/or defensive line. Your formation has a lot of advanced players so the best way of defending is pressing.

Hey Thanks for the feedback! I think a lot of what you said makes sense, just a couple quick questions

1). If you were to change the RPM in the midfield to another role, what do you suggest would work? DLP?

2). I find that increasing the pressing (close down more) drags my players out of position will increasing the pressing effect my defenders in a potentially negative way?

3). Would you consider adding any PI's?

From my opinion, I think:

1. CM (D) usually will close down opponent on your final third, and if opponent team have amc, maybe, you better partner it with cm (s) with holding position, or dlp (s).

2. If you're try to play possession, try to narrow your team width. I usually use fairly narrow/narrow or balance, depends on opponent team formation.

3. Diego Costa is a very good striker, so I prefer use him on DLP(s) or CF(s) and partner him with AP(s)

4. I rarely use close down more on fluid mentality because it usually makes my player out of position. Try use sometimes and see how your team doing it. You can add PI for player that you think not doing enough closing down.

Sorry for my bad english. Hope this advice will help you

Have you given Costa the P.I - Move into Channels? You say you've allowed him to roam in the channels.

If so, with a lone man, this will move him away from the centre of goal, to the space between CB & FB. Who do you have taking his place in the middle in front of goal once (if) he makes that run and creates space? No-one. If you do have it selected and want to keep Move into Channels you need to use a runner or two from deep or cutting in from wide (IF) as others have said above. This is where I would start.

Seems a waste of Diego Costa though if you have him dragged away from the centre of goal.

One other point, have a think about your shape and watch if players are too far out of position especially during transitions.

You are using the Fluid team shape and the TI Be More Expressive, which is quite a lot of creative freedom you are giving the team on top of the aggressive Control mentality.

Have a quick read of the Mentality and Team Shape sections (especially the part about creative freedom) in the FAQs sticky at the top of this forum to understand a little more if you need to.

4-2-3-1 is my favourite formation im currently having lots of success with Everton using a possession based 4-2-3-1.

3 things that immediately stick out are:

1. Costa is wasted as a DF S he will just sit in front of the oppositions back 4 laying off balls when he should be using his skill to run at them creating openings for hiself as well as others, Id suggest trying an AF.

2. Your have selected Retain Possession which is something thats more useful for the last 10mins of a game when you just want to keep hold of the ball and keep a lead, work ball into the box with short passing works well in a possession based 4-2-3-1.

3. You have selected Retain Possession and Be More Expressive which contradict each other and sort of cancel each other out, try removing both and see how your team plays.

Hey Thanks for the feedback! I think a lot of what you said makes sense, just a couple quick questions

1). If you were to change the RPM in the midfield to another role, what do you suggest would work? DLP?

2). I find that increasing the pressing (close down more) drags my players out of position will increasing the pressing effect my defenders in a potentially negative way?

3). Would you consider adding any PI's?

1. I think DLP is a good idea. I recommend roles that don't have "Roam from Position". If they have "Hold Position" that can add even more stability if you don't need the occasional forward run from a CM-S for example. Balance your MC pair with your fullbacks. I also consider the intelligence of the players and if I trust them to make good choices when to go forward or not, if I don't then I'll be more conservative.

2. You don't have to increase them, control will have pushed your line higher and increased closing down. Nothing is really 100% positive or negative, just be aware of where there is space in your defensive positioning and if the opponents are taking advantage of it.

3. Not until i'd watched a few games to see how things play out on the field.

Hey Thanks man! Since this is your favorite formation let me ask you. Do you find your defensive minded central midfielder being dragged out of position? I have Matic in as a CM-D and he's always going out to the wings to close down. My team is set on "Close down sometimes" at the moment and usually my fullback is already there defending. Is there any way to have him stay central to cut off the pass from the wing back to the center of the park?

Retain possession and Be more expressive are counter-intuitive shouts.

Retain possession and Be more expressive are counter-intuitive shouts.

May I please ask why? Surely you can play short passes and keep possession while still being expressive...? Flicks, back heels etc mixed in?

May I please ask why? Surely you can play short passes and keep possession while still being expressive...? Flicks, back heels etc mixed in?

That's Flair and is down to a players' own attributes.

Be More Expressive simply adds additional creative freedom, which essentially boils down to more risky passes (aka through balls). It can also cause players to deviate a bit from the game plan, which can lead to a loss of structure.

Retain Possession reduces through balls.

I just whipped out a 4231 for the first time this season against Juventus. 67% possession. Juventus had a few decent shots, but we left Conte distraught. That made me laugh.

When you want to make any tactic, its important to consider how the ball moves up the pitch and gets into the final third for you to score. A common mistake many novice players make is thinking that assigning an attack duty helps their team score goals. In my 4231 I only have 2 attacking duties, whether i am playing defensive, attacking, control, sunday school football...the tactic only has 2 attacking duties.

The key lies in balancing your system with the right roles/duties and then shouts. I like the fact that you use a few shouts only, your possession numbers are not going to improve simply because you used the retain possession shout. Shouts aren't the major issue fix your duties first

Yeah I've been use my AMR and Forward on attack, everyone else support or defend. Except I do have an attacking left back (Baba Rahman) on the same side as my IF-S. Anyone have an idea regarding my prior question where my CM-D is going out to the wings to close down when there's already a defender there? Can't figure out how to get him to stay central, maybe my "fluid" team shape is causing it?

I just whipped out a 4231 for the first time this season against Juventus. 67% possession. Juventus had a few decent shots, but we left Conte distraught. That made me laugh.

When you want to make any tactic, its important to consider how the ball moves up the pitch and gets into the final third for you to score. A common mistake many novice players make is thinking that assigning an attack duty helps their team score goals. In my 4231 I only have 2 attacking duties, whether i am playing defensive, attacking, control, sunday school football...the tactic only has 2 attacking duties.

The key lies in balancing your system with the right roles/duties and then shouts. I like the fact that you use a few shouts only, your possession numbers are not going to improve simply because you used the retain possession shout. Shouts aren't the major issue fix your duties first

On the 4231 I am trying to create I only use 2 attack duties also. The attack duties are my full backs. I then have my CMs both set to defend duties one being CMD and DLPD. I then have my entire front four on Support Duties. Inside Forward Support, Advance Playmaker Support and Complete Forward Support. Rashidi it would be good to know how you manage to always getting your 4231 to work. I am a novice player. Could I be brave and ask you what do you think about my roles and duties.