Favre's Gladbach - Help needed

Anyone tried to create this in fm? I was thinking about 4-4-2 or 4-2DM-2-2, Balanced, Counter, Shorter passing, Pass into space, More roaming, high tempo and more epressive, but I can't quite decide on the roles. Also, narrow/wide? I would like to hear some ideas

Maybe change Balanced to Fluid? They seem very fluid and move around a lot, something I've seen there with Reus which is beautiful.

I agree with you on the roles - maybe watch games from that season or read articles and decide? Because the video is hard to interpret (individual role-wise).

I'd possibly suggest Control (and taking off: high tempo, more expressive) as Counter will aim at sitting deeper, soaking up pressure and standing off more than usual.

They do move when in control of the ball, when they defend, they usually keep a well-defined shape, two banks of four. That's why I consider using Roam from positions.

http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/news/2013/0000282284.php

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2013/borussia-moenchengladbach-teamgeist-tactics-and-transfers/

http://soccerfootfan.wordpress.com/2014/03/15/tactical-analysis-borussia-dortmund-1-2-borussia-monchengladbach/

http://afootballreport.com/post/17922664123/the-monchengladbach-way-borussia-monchengladbach

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1032809-borussia-monchengladbach-3-1-bayern-munich-a-tactical-review

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/04/borussia-monchengladbach-dortmund-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2013/08/13/bayern-munich-3-1-borussia-monchengladbach-evolution-rather-than-revolution-for-guardiola/

http://www.borussia.de/english/season/news/borussia-news/news-detailansicht.html?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=11066&cHash=7d401058f86706f236fc680d7dc7937a

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2013/borussia-monchengladbachs-fab-four/

I read these articles, but still don't have clear idea. Possible starting point:

GK: Goalkeeper-Defend

DR: Full Back-Support

DL: Full Back-Support

DC: Central Defender-Defend

DC: Central Defender-Defend

DMCR: Defensive Midfielder-Defend*

DMCL: Defensive Midfielder-Support

MR: Wide Midfielder-Attack

ML: Wide Midfielder-Attack

FCR: Deep Lying Forward-Attack**

FCL: Deep Lying Forward-Support**

*This one should have some playmaker-like instructions, but classic DLP role tends to go between the stoppers during goal kicks, which causes chaos in case the ball is lost (which happens quite often in the game), so DM-D with More risky passes could be an option.

**Also, a combination of Shaddow striker-Attack and Deep Lying Forward-Support is an option, especially since Raffael arrived.

Individual short passsing for everyone except full backs and goalkeeper is also an option, because passing is generally as short as possible.

I think with the current setup you are losing a key aspect and that is the wide men linking up the play with the forwards. Also a F9 role looks like a clear cut choice for the deeper striker.

I would probably go with:

Control, standard or defensive, fluid or very fluid.

GK: Goalkeeper-Defend

DR: Full Back-Support

DL: Full Back-Support

DC: Central Defender-Defend

DC: Central Defender-Defend

DMCR: Defensive Midfielder-Defend (more risky passes)

DMCL: Defensive Midfielder-Support

MR: Wide Midfielder-Attack

ML: Wide Midfielder-Support (roam from position, play narrow)

FCR: Deep Lying Forward-Attack

FCL: False Nine

Team instructions: Shorter passing, (Push higher up), (higher tempo)

I think they played with a deep line from time to time in which case a defensive strategy would suit them. In other games control with maybe "push higher up" added to create the high line pressing defense. Adding higher tempo would probably be a good idea when playing with a defensive strategy, maybe also when on control or standard but not sure.

Wouldn't Fluid or Very Fluid lead to total lack of shape when defending? I considered F9, but its movement (opposite of SS) is not quite present in Gladbach's play :/

Wouldn't Fluid or Very Fluid lead to total lack of shape when defending?

This is a common misconception. Increased Fluidity generally leads to the the team operating more collectively - you defend as a unit and attack as a unit.

Wouldn't Fluid or Very Fluid lead to total lack of shape when defending? I considered F9, but its movement (opposite of SS) is not quite present in Gladbach's play :/

Grrr my pet hate of the night. Very Fluid does NOT give you any lack of shape. Not personal at you at all, but there is a total misunderstanding of what the fluidity settings mean. Have a read of a couple of the "stickies" at the top, especially the most recent one explaining the TC.

F9 is also a little bit of an anomoly in the TC. In real life, i cant think of anyone who could claim to play with a F9 in a strike partnership. The real life "F9" is almost exclusively a sole striker role. An F9 loses his impact if there is another striker alongside him. That said, in FM it can be effective because the combination of instructions can make it play similar to a DLF(s) but with more roaming and creativity.

EDIT - RT beat me to it on the first bit.

I'm not well known with Gladbach's tactic and there seems to be a decent amount of adaption to the opponent so I don't know if you can speak about one tactic, more of a style. That said F9 might indeed not be the best role although I think it will work. A shadow striker who moves into the channels might be a decent option but a DLF(s) is probably fine as well.

I'm still deep in my Palermo 5-3-2 save but I think I'll try my hand at some German football soon. I always get distracted by threads like this

This is a common misconception. Increased Fluidity generally leads to the the team operating more collectively - you defend as a unit and attack as a unit.

I wasn't talking about "forgetting" defence, just not keeping tight formation (two banks of four), which is quite important for copying Gladbach. Collectively - yes, but not "rigid" enough.

I wasn't talking about "forgetting" defence, just not keeping tight formation (two banks of four), which is quite important for copying Gladbach. Collectively - yes, but not "rigid" enough.

And I'd argue that Fluid very easily gives you organised, disciplined and linear lines of defence.

Do you mean they attack in a rigid manner too?

I wasn't talking about "forgetting" defence, just not keeping tight formation (two banks of four), which is quite important for copying Gladbach. Collectively - yes, but not "rigid" enough.

What do you mean keeping a tight formation? In the defensive phase? Fluidity doesn't affect positioning in that way. If you want the whole team to remain compact going forward, Very Fluid is the best option.

Fluidity is more about how you, as a manager, organise player responsibilities within the team, and this mainly concerns behaviour in the attacking and transition phases. More fluid settings correspond to systems where players have less clearly defined roles whereas more rigid settings correspond to systems where player responsibilities are meticulously structured around individual player strengths.

And I'd argue that Fluid very easily gives you organised, disciplined and linear lines of defence.

Do you mean they attack in a rigid manner too?

No, they attack in a very fluid-ish manner. It's classic 4-4-2 in defence and no shape in attack. That's why I considered Roam from positions.

Short passing + very high tempo will create more one-twos as presented in the opening post. Also, possibly moving the defensive midfielders forward, playing a 4-4-1-1, with midfield duo being (DLP(d)+CM(d)) or perhaps a B2B. Also changing the right winger to Winger(a), while keeping the left midfielder deeper (WM(s)) and having a SS + F9. The false nine will be combining with the midfield, while the SS bomb forward into the channels.