Man marking and closing down in FM14, help please.

Despite searches et cetera, I am no nearer finding a clear explanation of the above.

On 12/11/13 #33, Tony Fallows posted the following. "If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set 'tight marking". I have not any problem with that statement as it is clear enough. On the same date #35, RTHerringbone posted the following. "Tight marking still operates within the bounds of zonal marking". This now has me in a dilemma because either tight marking is zonal or it is man marking. I can't see how it can be both. Does anyone have one definitive explanation of the two?

Closing down. I have been unable to find one an explanation for FM14. I have been thinking thus. Hassle and stand off are at the two extremes of closing down and in between are the increasing amounts of closing down. For instance, drop much deeper going up to push much higher. However, I seem to recall reading somewhere in my searching that this is incorrect. Again, does anyone have one definitive explanation, please?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/372207-Things-you-may-or-may-not-know-about-marking..... written by RTHerringbone should help you out.

Zonal marking is the only option, unless you use specific marking allover, which carries great risk and should only be done knowingly.

The D-line doesn't affect the closing down.

Despite searches et cetera, I am no nearer finding a clear explanation of the above.

On 12/11/13 #33, Tony Fallows posted the following. "If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set 'tight marking". I have not any problem with that statement as it is clear enough. On the same date #35, RTHerringbone posted the following. "Tight marking still operates within the bounds of zonal marking". This now has me in a dilemma because either tight marking is zonal or it is man marking. I can't see how it can be both. Does anyone have one definitive explanation of the two?

All this means is that your players still need to be close enough to their man (as in zonally) in order to Tight Mark.

Steve and RTHerringbone.

1.If I set tight marking as a team, I am still zonal marking, right or wrong?

2. To set man marking as a team, I must set specific marking all over, right or wrong?

3. Where does this leave Tony Fallows statement "If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set tight marking"?

Would it not be a lot simpler to use the phrases,

1. Zonal marking and closer zonal marking and

2. Man marking and tight man marking?

I still am not any nearer to getting an explanation of closing down or are my thoughts about it correct? Please forgive me if I might appear 'thick' but these two problems are beginning to spoil the game for me.

It is now past an old mans bedtime. Hee! Hee!

Steve and RTHerringbone.

1.If I set tight making as a team, I am still zonal marking, right or wrong?

2. To set man marking as a team, I must set specific marking all over, right or wrong?

3. Where does this leave Tony Fallows statement "If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set tight marking?

Would it not be a lot simpler to use the phrases,

1. Zonal marking and closer zonal marking and

2. Man marking and tight man marking?

I still am not any nearer to getting an explanation of closing down or are my thoughts about it correct? Please forgive me if I might appear 'thick' but these two problems are beginning to spoil the game for me.

1. right
   
2. right
   
3. Tony Fallows meant the same as your first statement, I believe.
   

It all comes down to this. the real man marking isn't something that is used in modern football, because it would destroy the shape you have on the tactics screen. The real man marking would be (and I quote from my days as a footballer):

You follow your man everywhere, if he goes to the toilet, so do you!

If you would use that in FM, you wouldn't have any shape to your team at all. Consider what this would mean of your center back follows a TQ or a False nine everywhere he goes. You would have more holes in your defensive shape than you would have a defensive shape at all. You really need to forget about the man marking, because if you don't, you will have a very difficult time putting some sort of a team together.

Think about the marking and pressing like this:

Each player plays in his position, how do I want him to react when an opposite player enters that pitch?

Mark tightly would mean he will pick that player up and be very close to him. This is great if you want him to make an early tackle or header to mark this player out of the game. It could be disastrous if said player beats his marker (your player) and makes a run at goal.

Stand off would mean he keeps his shape and makes it harder to play through your team. This is great, because the opposition can't attack your goal all that easy. It has the downside that you won't win the ball back that easy, since your players are further away from their man.

@oescus re earlier questions:

1.If I set tight marking as a team, I am still zonal marking, right or wrong?

Correct - and it is this which is closest to the "man marking" term that is commonly used in general footballing parlance.

So, default marking is "loose" zonal, Tight Marking is "tight" zonal marking.

2. To set man marking as a team, I must set specific marking all over, right or wrong?

Not in the conventional sense. The interface doesn't help itself here. Specific Man Marking isn't conventional man marking, but instead is a "hatchet man" assignment - the sort where you would set Chieck Tiote to shadow Mesut Ozil around the pitch for 90 minutes. Doing this with your DCs in particular would be extraordinarily dangerous as it would drag them all over the pitch

@oescus re earlier questions:

1.If I set tight marking as a team, I am still zonal marking, right or wrong?

Correct - and it is this which is closest to the "man marking" term that is commonly used in general footballing parlance.

So, default marking is "loose" zonal, Tight Marking is "tight" zonal marking.

2. To set man marking as a team, I must set specific marking all over, right or wrong?

Not in the conventional sense. The interface doesn't help itself here. Specific Man Marking isn't conventional man marking, but instead is a "hatchet man" assignment - the sort where you would set Chieck Tiote to shadow Mesut Ozil around the pitch for 90 minutes. Doing this with your DCs in particular would be extraordinarily dangerous as it would drag them all over the pitch

So, for the purposes of playing FM14, 'Tight Marking' is 'tight' zonal marking which is also deemed to be man marking. Correct?

Specific marking all over is the extreme of tight marking/man marking and is to be given much consideration before implementing. Correct?

It would be interesting if Tony Fallows clarified his man marking statement.

I hope the marking is now done with. This still leaves the 'closing down'. I think that I am correct about saying that 'hassle' and 'stand off' are the two extremes of closing down. I also think that I am incorrect in saying that 'drop deeper' and 'push higher up' are the in between parts of closing down. Within the team instructions what are the in between parts of the closing down extremes of 'hassle' and 'stand off?. I can't see anything in the team instructions that enable me to set them.

Correct for both questions, although I consider Specific Man Marking to not be marking at all - rather it is a "take this man out of the game" strategy - but that is my personal interpretation.

Tony's statement is still correct though ("If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set 'tight marking"), so I'm not sure it needs clarification?

He said effectively that FMs equivalent of Man Marking is achieved using Tight Marking.

Closing Down is a much broader subject, but it is firstly linked to your Mentality.

If you play a more Defensive Mentality, your Defensive Line is deeper and so the zones in which you close down start deeper down the pitch.

If you move up the Mentality scale, your Defensive Line moves up the pitch, and therefore the zones in which you close down start higher up.

More Attacking Mentality = Closing Down starts higher up the pitch.

More Defensive Mentality = Closing Down starts further down the pitch.

We can then modify the default Defensive Line within the Mentality using the Push Higher Up and Drop Deeper range of Team Instructions.

Push Higher Up obviously means that your Defensive Line moves up field, and the point of Closing Down therefore moves up field with it. Vice versa for Drop Deeper.

We can then use Hassle Opponents or Stand Off Opponents Team Instructions to further modify Closing Down.

Hassle Opponents Increase Tempo and makes players Close Down earlier , Stand Off Opponents drops Tempo and makes players Close Down later.

This 'taking a player out of the game strategy' is the actual man marking used before shapes became more fluid in football. It used to be a good way to give everyone a certain marker and giving them the instruction to stay with the player at all times. Ever since tactics became more fluid, this was no longer an option because players roam, drop deep and overlap each other a lot more than they used to. Thats why you won't find the real man marking anymore in FM or irl for that matter.

You will find some evidence of one player given the specific instruction of employing the real man markin, effectively trying to mark a specific player out of the game. So all you M, while slightly inacurate from the historical point of view.

Correct for both questions, although I consider Specific Man Marking to not be marking at all - rather it is a "take this man out of the game" strategy - but that is my personal interpretation.

Tony's statement is still correct though ("If you want man marking as opposed to zonal you must set 'tight marking"), so I'm not sure it needs clarification?

He said effectively that FMs equivalent of Man Marking is achieved using Tight Marking.

Closing Down is a much broader subject, but it is firstly linked to your Mentality.

If you play a more Defensive Mentality, your Defensive Line is deeper and so the zones in which you close down start deeper down the pitch.

If you move up the Mentality scale, your Defensive Line moves up the pitch, and therefore the zones in which you close down start higher up.

More Attacking Mentality = Closing Down starts higher up the pitch.

More Defensive Mentality = Closing Down starts further down the pitch.

We can then modify the default Defensive Line within the Mentality using the Push Higher Up and Drop Deeper range of Team Instructions.

Push Higher Up obviously means that your Defensive Line moves up field, and the point of Closing Down therefore moves up field with it. Vice versa for Drop Deeper.

We can then use Hassle Opponents or Stand Off Opponents Team Instructions to further modify Closing Down.

Hassle Opponents Increase Tempo and makes players Close Down earlier , Stand Off Opponents drops Tempo and makes players Close Down later.

Eu-flippin'-reka! Or a word of a similar meaning. The world returns to normal and I can again play the game without thinking that I may be missing something. I still am of the opinion that the statement of Tony Fallows needs clarification, though.

My thanks to Steve and RTHerringbone for your time and patience, it is muchly appreciated.

Now, just when I am looking forward to getting back to the game, a retired school teacher friend has rang and asked if I would assist in the coaching of an under 12 team he runs. At least it will be easier than FM14 and I can show them how to close down! Hee! Hee!

Eu-flippin'-reka! Or a word of a similar meaning. The world returns to normal and I can again play the game without thinking that I may be missing something. I still am of the opinion that the statement of Tony Fallows needs clarification, though.

My thanks to Steve and RTHerringbone for your time and patience, it is muchly appreciated.

Now, just when I am looking forward to getting back to the game, a retired school teacher friend has rang and asked if I would assist in the coaching of an under 12 team he runs. At least it will be easier than FM14 and I can show them how to close down! Hee! Hee!

Just remember the kids will swear back though unlike on FM

Very good thread guys (and lady)!

I came across here from oescus' other thread asking the same questions and the back-and-forth Q&A style really explained it well, I'm sure many posters will find it useful, I certainly did.

Oescus, it certainly isn't a stupid question that you are asking, especially for those of us that have played multiple versions of FM it's easy to get confused between the terms used and what they actually get interpreted as on the field of play.

Your determination to find out exactly what the marking and closing down instructions do is exactly what a lot of FM players are lacking I think. People tend to just blindly throw a few (sometimes conflicting) team instructions at their players without actually taking the time to understand what they do (or watch the matches in full to see the affect), and then blame the ME or FM for cracking their tactic. ;-)

The problem is that team instructions are too vague and not intuitive enough. You should not need an instruction manual or have to come online in order to able to set up your team effectively, you should be able to just use common sense instead of trying to guess what all these vague instructions mean and what they amount to on the field of play.

I can attest to struggling with what tennisball wrote above. Totally agree.

Some of these things are not clearly explained, as we have said ad nauseum, but we've got good resources to understand them.

The vague instructions are far from being only the only thing wrong with FM14 as the match engine is deeply flawed meaning that even if you get to grips with the instructions you will still have problems like players not defending properly(in particular fullbacks wandering infield and players failing to pick up runners), not being able to complete two yard passes and running into the back of team mates losing the ball in the process. These sort of mistakes are ruining the experience of playing FM and prevent you from becoming fully immersed in the game.

The vague instructions are far from being only the only thing wrong with FM14 as the match engine is deeply flawed meaning that even if you get to grips with the instructions you will still have problems like players not defending properly(in particular fullbacks wandering infield and players failing to pick up runners), not being able to complete two yard passes and running into the back of team mates losing the ball in the process. These sort of mistakes are ruining the experience of playing FM and prevent you from becoming fully immersed in the game.

tYou're making a basic mistake when assuming people can't get immersed in FM14. I can and will continuue to do so, especially when those minor bugs get fixed. I occasionally have problems with them too, but I set them aside.When this game is fully patched it will be the best iteration of FM, imo.

tYou're making a basic mistake when assuming people can't get immersed in FM14. I can and will continuue to do so, especially when those minor bugs get fixed. I occasionally have problems with them too, but I set them aside.When this game is fully patched it will be the best iteration of FM, imo.

When I talk about not being immersed in the game, I am doing so from a personal view point and personally it is those little things that stop me getting maximum enjoyment out of it. I'm sure in time FM14 will turn out to be a very fine addition to the series but at this moment in time it still has an awful lot to work on when it comes to the match engine. I am still able to immerse myself to a point but as I say basic problems with the match engine prevent me from doing so fully and have me turning back to FM13 which may be lacking some of the impressive features that FM14 has implemented so well, such as being able to buy players much closer to their value, but has a more polished match engine and is therefore, for me, a more enjoyable experience.