son_of_sosidge Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 OK, here is the premise. I have been playing a number of seasons in holiday mode. Same team - Arsenal. Same tactic - Default 433 Attacking. Same routine - Holiday mode immediately, no signings or team selections, ask assistant to use current tactics, return on 14th June 2008. Would anyone like to hazard a guess at how consistent the results have been? I'd like guesses of best and worst position in the Premier League and points gained please. EXAMPLE FORMAT: Best PL position & Points: 18th & 27pts Worst PL Position and points: 20th & 11pts Guess away! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moaner Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 how about you just tell us? i play guessing games with my three year old niece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 24, 2008 Author Share Posted August 24, 2008 I want to see what peoples expectations are based on how they believe the game works, and compare it with the reality. So why not join in instead of moaning? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazza Pee Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I want to see what peoples expectations are based on how they believe the game works, and compare it with the reality.So why not join in instead of moaning? He is a moaner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfmer Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 10th place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moaner Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 He is a moaner excuse me! i am THE moaner. not just A moaner. ok ill have a guess... BEST POSISTION: 2nd 82pts WORST POSITION: 6th 65pts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStu94 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Best Position: 2nd 91 points Worst Position: 4th 72 points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB11 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Best Position: 1 Worst Position: 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfmer Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 21st in the premier league?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStu94 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I think it's a joke or he think's the ass man is so appalling that they got relegated to the championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueglobefootball123 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 2nd - best 4th - worst (Surely the top four wont be broken ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 1st and 16th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, thanks to the couple of people that gave serious answers. The results have been pretty varied. Four seasons played so far with the following league finishes... 3rd/78pts 1st/95pts 4th/73pts 2nd/78pts I'm playing more seasons as I write this. As you can see there is a massive 22 point difference between the best and worst seasons. I know there are random elements in the game such as injuries and opposition signings, but I would have expected a much closer spread, more in the region of 10% or 8-10 points. So depending on your interpretation this holiday test shows... 1) Assmans are useless so holiday mode is meaningless 2) The random element is too significant in the game, and any team could over or underperform significantly regardless of players and tactics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 Another season played, another significantly different result: 1st/92pts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 So depending on your interpretation this holiday test shows... 1) Assmans are useless so holiday mode is meaningless 2) The random element is too significant in the game, and any team could over or underperform significantly regardless of players and tactics Quite an interesting idea - I'll follow your progress. However, I wouldn't interpret your results in the same way (the opposite in fact!) - the spread is actually between 1st and 4th - one poster above rightly guessed that the top 4 wouldn't be broken. So I don't see as much randomness as you do, and I'd ascribe at least some of that to the abilities of the Assman - in this case Pat Rice, whom the game rates as the best in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daumal Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 1st/90pts 2nd/83pts 4th/67pts 4th/68pts 3rd/83pts Arsenal IRL from 2003/4 to 2007/8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
damienroden Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 it just shows that the same thing doesnt always work, assman uselss? arsenal are a top four club, so finishing in the top four and spending no money is good. what do you want a list of tactics one working better than the other- 433 alwasy beat 442 etc. just shows that anything can happen, as in real football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 1st/90pts2nd/83pts 4th/67pts 4th/68pts 3rd/83pts Arsenal IRL from 2003/4 to 2007/8. But with different players against very different teams. I am playing the 2007/8 season OVER and OVER again. Do you really think that there was a 22 point difference in likely performance of the same Arsenal team against more or less the same AI opponents over the same season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 Quite an interesting idea - I'll follow your progress. However, I wouldn't interpret your results in the same way (the opposite in fact!) - the spread is actually between 1st and 4th - one poster above rightly guessed that the top 4 wouldn't be broken. So I don't see as much randomness as you do, and I'd ascribe at least some of that to the abilities of the Assman - in this case Pat Rice, whom the game rates as the best in the world. Although Arsenal are yet to be out of the top four the fop four has often been broken. Man Utd finished sixth in one season, and won in another. Chelsea and Liverpool have also won the title, Aston Villa and Man City have been either in the top four or stuck in mid table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 it just shows that the same thing doesnt always work, assman uselss? arsenal are a top four club, so finishing in the top four and spending no money is good.what do you want a list of tactics one working better than the other- 433 alwasy beat 442 etc. just shows that anything can happen, as in real football. But for the match engine to be realistic surely results should be relatively consistent? Otherwise the people who endlessly tweak are wasting their time because the random factor of "luck" will massively outweigh the advantages or disadvantages of any tactic and render them meaningless. It is interesting to me to see that arguably the most consistent way of playing the game (AI manager, fixed tactic) throws up massively inconsistent results. It adds weight to my theory that almost all the details in the game are smoke and mirrors to distract you from a very simple game based almost entirely on player quality and very basic tactical rules. Gamers are playing the random factor, not the game itself, this is why the game is by turns exasperating and inspirational. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 But with different players against very different teams. I am playing the 2007/8 season OVER and OVER again. Do you really think that there was a 22 point difference in likely performance of the same Arsenal team against more or less the same AI opponents over the same season? I'd say a more pertinent question is why are you expecting it to be much closer? Something as simple a a two-month injury to a key player can have a major effect to points gained, let alone a whole season's worth of variables, not just affecting Arsenal but all the other clubs as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glyn Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 But for the match engine to be realistic surely results should be relatively consistent? Otherwise the people who endlessly tweak are wasting their time because the random factor of "luck" will massively outweigh the advantages or disadvantages of any tactic and render them meaningless. Erm...no. Every game of football can be won by either team. All you as a manager are doing is trying to make the probability of your team winning improve from (say) 8 times out of 10 to 9 times out of 10. That still leaves 1 or 2 times out of ten you won't win. You'll never get it to 10 times out of 10, so results will naturally vary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_sosidge Posted August 25, 2008 Author Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, thanks to the couple of people that gave serious answers.The results have been pretty varied. Four seasons played so far with the following league finishes... 3rd/78pts 1st/95pts 4th/73pts 2nd/78pts I'm playing more seasons as I write this. As you can see there is a massive 22 point difference between the best and worst seasons. I know there are random elements in the game such as injuries and opposition signings, but I would have expected a much closer spread, more in the region of 10% or 8-10 points. So depending on your interpretation this holiday test shows... 1) Assmans are useless so holiday mode is meaningless 2) The random element is too significant in the game, and any team could over or underperform significantly regardless of players and tactics Another season played, another significantly different result:1st/92pts 6th season 3rd/75pts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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