Transfer Bug for Barcelona

Gai Assulin and Pedro from Barcelona.

I don't understand that, in my game, these players were sold by Barcelona respectively to Inter and Shaktar after 6month for Assulin and 1 year for Pedro.

FM must take concideration with the fact that youth team players from Barca stays normally in Barca. Not always, for example Pepe Reina, Cesc Fabregas, Giovani Dos Santos, but usualy Barcelona prefer to not sell them.

Barca 's philosophy is to play with players they formed. They give to much importance to this players. The last Champions League final is a good example: they played against Manchester United with 7 of 11 players formed in Barcelona FC...

I don't think these transfers are realistic. Assulin is a very big promising player and Pedro is now a very important player of the first team.

Also Jeffren, Jonathan Dos Santos, and other youth players of Barca are very promising players that will play for Barca in the comming years.

I've always seen that Keita was gone on loan after 6 months... Watch his performans IRL that isn't realistic.

Please check up because this is a big transfer bug.

Thx.

this would be stupid, if you wanted this as the case, your saying u dont want use being able to buy players, like messi, xavi, inista, bojan.

the game would be worse that way.

barcelona has some of the best players in the world in their first team on the game, they have money to buy better young talent. players like gai assulin and pedro, would probaly never make the team on a regualr basis, they just wont cut it at the standard of players that ai controlled barcelona want and need to compete!!

We must have the possiblity to buy Barca youth team players, but I think that FM must take in consideration that Barca avoids to sell them IRL, so why not in the game? ---> FM's philosophy = being so realistic as possible.

I think that they were sold to fast in the game, Barca test them first in the A team before selling them.

Thx.

I completely understand what are you saying Alizzle. I think this would be very hard to implement in the game, especially for this version.

I wouldn't really call this a bug, and for that reason, I'm going to move it to GQ in the hope that it will raise some debate amongst forum users.

I'm sure you are also aware that it is impossible for us to predict which players Barcelona will play in their first team in the future that are currently at their B and C teams. If the players have high potentials, it is likely the AI will keep them at Barcelona.

Fabergas and Pique....both of them far better than the two players you list, yet they left Barca under the same circumstances you claim is wrong.

By this argument, almost no players would ever be transferred at all!

Maybe the strength of feeling some players have for their favoured clubs should be stronger, but you cannot stop players from moving.

Every game on FM you see players moving that would not move in real life! I have seen Real Madrid release Raul, and he moved to Deportivo. Deportivo then released him and he ended up with some second division spanish team.

While it may not be realistic in real life, it is all part of what makes FM.

I'm sure there are players you have signed already for your team that would never join you. I signed Daniele De Rossi for Man Utd. Would this ever happen in real life? No.

There are so many instances in FM of players moving around. It is not a bug. Just FM playing it out.

I do think that perhaps clubs should not always sign the same players though. Every game I see Man Utd go out and sign Jesus Navas, Mirko Vucinic and one other player that I forget the name of now. They didn't sign them in real life. But that doesn't make it a bug!

Keep it the way it is, although like I said above, too many teams always go out and sign the same players every time. While I understand the need for manager shortlists and targets. It can get a little repetitive.

Its not a bug.

But transfers are still so poor in the game it gets annoying...

For example in the same transfer window Barcelona signed Mata(they finished in like 10th 1st season so fair enough) and Giovinco(why would he go when Mata it there? Plus would Juventus who just won Serie A really sell their best prospect? arguably the next Del Piero!) for about 40M and 35M and on top of that diego capel. This to me seems crazy as they are just overloading their positions with big names that won't all get into the first team.. Then Real Madrid just bought Zarate and 3 other players that can play on both wings and upfront. Yet they still have Higuain, ronaldo, Kaka and such... and have now released Raul. Its crazy. Actually its worse then that. I've just realised they also signed Ribery for 42M and also Carzola in jan but he moved at end of the season for 28M

Barcelona also signed hangelaand when they already have pique and puyol and chygrynsky(sp) and milito and henrique, although they did offload milito to somebody and marques to lyon on loan(exceptions)

There needs to be more intel from clubs and players because they seem to just be buying so they can have the best PA players in the game even when they're not needed. And then the player himself needs to evaluate his situation and what would be best... eg if he would actually get into the team etc. Theres so much more i could go through but i'd just muddle it up. So i just want some cleverer AI in terms of transfers! It ruins the game when all players go to the big clubs and yet still they don't even offload players either! Teams become so overloaded and unbalanced

I think that a club's prefered transfer policy would be a welcome addition to the series:

- Barcelona, Ajax and maybe also Man Utd (I know this one is debateble) are more inclined to "give players from their academies a chance".

In the game Ajax always end up as a buying club: a safehouse for really talented players from abroad (lots of Brazilians, which isn't really "the Ajax way") are snapped up for decent to pretty high prices (Ajax never paid more than 20 million euro for a player IRL - highest fee was Suleijmani around 17 million I think - in game they pay more than 20 million for a player all the time). They do sell them on for a profit to bigger European clubs, which they have been doing IRL (Huntelaar, Sneijder and soon Suarez probably).

- Big Premier League teams like Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool prefer to snap up young talent from abroad (France, Italy, Spain and Holland for example) This is the first FM where I have seen the AI doing this on a rather large scale

I know countries have a favoured transfer region/country set in the editor; maybe a manager's or club's preference should influence transfer policy even more in the game. Think about Benitez' preference for Spanish (young) players and Wenger's (old) habit of signing French.

@PGB_SPURS_FM09:

I agree with you assesment, but maybe Real Madrid is not the best example as they have bought an abundance of attacking talent in real life recently, while they had quite talented attacking players already. I might be biased a little bit, because I am from the Netherlands, but I don't think that Sneijder, Robben but also Negredo and Vd Vaart, Guti, Higuain, Raul and V Nistelrooy (who are still at the club, I know) are that much worse than Benzema, Kaka and Ronaldo, how world class these players may be. I know this is very much open for debate (whether the purchases were needed).

My point is that they still bought many talent, while they had plenty. And I bet that IRL they would jump at the chance to sign Ribery, Villa and/or Silva next januari or juli.

Perhaps youngsters coming through at Barcelona should on average have higher loyalty and Barca as their favoured club? Making them less likely to leave?

PGB Spurs:

'There needs to be more intel from clubs and players because they seem to just be buying so they can have the best PA players in the game even when they're not needed'

Is this not what Man City are doing (Tevez, Santa Cruz, Robinho and Adebayor) and Chelsea (Duff, Wright Phillips, Robben, Malouda and others that I cannot remember) did it a number of years ago. So it has happened twice in the last couple of years. So it does and has happened.

I do agree though that it is a tad stupid as there is no way you are going to keep everyone happy and Chelsea found this out with all their midfielders a number of years ago and Man City will find out within the next year or so with all their forwards.

I actually found myself saying to Gallas (when I put him on the transfer list at Arsenal) to go to a smaller team after Real Madrid and other top teams wanted him because he would only sit on the bench. Sure enough he signed for Bordeaux. Good lad

Point is, besides my obvious crazy habit of talking to the screen, that players will move to whatever team the feel like for whatever reasons. Sometimes the wrong ones and they will never be played. This happens IRL and in the game. I see no real issue with youth players moving away from their team to seek out new chalanges or make a potential mistake.

Its life really...

Also, as been pointed out above, highly promising youngsters from all over the world DO move around IRL. Even from well known youth breeding teams like Ajax. If the tendency to use their own players is spot on is debatable however and I see where people are coming from if they state they buy too many players and rely too little on their own youth.

I guess it's more of a personal opinion really. I always play Pedro in my Barca team and he is a pretty good player, though stats are not as good as Messi or Iniesta, but he does the job. To be honest with the Transfer system logic the game is using, I am bemused that Man United always sign Adrian Mutu and Jesus Navas. It's funny that Adrian Mutu is coming back to England as he is never coming near it ever again in real world, while Jesus Navas is a very homesick player. He definitely ain't leaving Sevilla for England. Maybe a revamped transfer system for next FM?

same old problem, the game-AI thinks their PA is not good enough to play for Barca and sells them. same thing happened to Xavi and Iniesta in previous FMs. defently not realistic, if such players are sold without being given a chance to prove under Guardiola, like irl. that's the problem with fixed PA. everything is based on it becouse AI uses PA for assesing players. irl even Pep can't be sure how good Pedro or Jefren are going to be. they can be next Messi or next GdS.

when can we expect improvements in this department?

in short, it's not a problem these players are sold, the problem is they're sold because AI can see their low PA and because they're sold too young.

Obviously after seeing Pedro play decent it is easy to say Barca is not likely to sell him unless someone makes a big crazy offer BUT most of us would not bother for Pedro 4 months ago when this db was build. On the other hand the current transfer module does not have a individidual Barca branch. Barca academey has been more productive recently and they may have some special charachteristic which is not recognised by game.

It's also worth pointing out, as a massive Barça fan who is quite proud of our youth system, that the relative success rate of players from La Masia (the youth system) breaking into the first team has really only been notable in the past few years. There have certainly been key players from the past that developed from the youth system into the full team, but the stars were more often than not big name foreign players. Having 7 of our own youth products starting a Champions League game (as we did against Inter this week) is testament to the quality of our youth system, but its is perhaps a generational thing.

I don't know if it is useful to start coding increased club loyalty for Barcelona players, or some managerial preference for club trained players, as even Barca will still buy and play the best players they can. It just happens that at this moment in history, some of those best players come from Barca itself.

@Garion

I also like the suggestion of some weighting of a club's transfer policy. I know the AI gives some recommendations in the first Backroom Advice meeting, with suggestions like 'build from youth'. It would be nice if the AI selected transfer mentalities based on the club's history, size & reputation, quality of youth setup, etc.

Barca and Real are great examples to compare. Both huge clubs in terms of quality, budgets, and reputation, but VERY different approaches to the transfer market.

It's also worth pointing out, as a massive Barça fan who is quite proud of our youth system, that the relative success rate of players from La Masia (the youth system) breaking into the first team has really only been notable in the past few years. There have certainly been key players from the past that developed from the youth system into the full team, but the stars were more often than not big name foreign players. Having 7 of our own youth products starting a Champions League game (as we did against Inter this week) is testament to the quality of our youth system, but its is perhaps a generational thing.

I don't know if it is useful to start coding increased club loyalty for Barcelona players, or some managerial preference for club trained players, as even Barca will still buy and play the best players they can. It just happens that at this moment in history, some of those best players come from Barca itself.

I totally agree with this, Barca currently has a good rate of intake integration into first team but it have not been like this all the time and there is not quarentee that it will remain as it is for the future. Since the seconds season of Rijkaard era, Barca core team has been consistent with Valdez-Puyol-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi.... and coaching staff also did not change often but if and when things go worse we will see changes and more transfers which will make it harder for homegrown to break into squad.

As a non-Barca fan I really enjoy their current game and squad but I know this will not last forever, sooner or later they will have to do some major changes again just like they did in early 2000 to get rid of the Dutch majority of the team.

I agree with most of the points made, and I also understand that this is a very difficult area to perfect.

To predict which clubs are going to have a good in-take of youth, as well as promote them to the first team is very difficult indeed. Certain countries appear to have stints of producing such talent and it's not possible to predict who's next in terms of the future, say 20+ years down the line. Of course, some countries appear more consistent at this than others - Brazil, Holland and Italy are the obvious. Clubs associated with those countries reep the benefits at the time - Spain & Barcelona are the latest to achieve this. Is this likely to continue? No - it's too random and history tells us that it's like a yo-yo effect.

In-game, you could argue that the link between training facilities and the newgens could be better, in that the AI should take into account a player could achieve his PA with top-class facilities within <x amount of time> and therefore calculate whether it's worth selling or not - depending on the circumstances and his potential. For instance, an AI club could reject your initial interest as they see <newgen> replacing X when he retires.

At the moment, you can buy a young player with relatively high PA too easily, in my opinion. As someone has already stated, does the AI take into account that the player could be a world star in the future? Is the lure of cash for a non first team player too much for an AI club? I don't get the feeling that AI clubs cherish their youth system, like some clubs do in real life.

On the flipside to all that, I think FM10 is a step in the right direction. I have seen evidence of the top clubs buying younger players (maybe because it's easy?) - in FM09 I would forever see the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Real Madrid buy players who are 30+ whilst simply ignoring the younger stars. This appears to be reduced somewhat in the latest game.

Perhaps the chairman or confidence from the fans could suggest (not tell) how you spend your money, and therefore continue the current traditions if you wish to do so. The benefit of this could result in you, as the manager, gaining attributes for listening to your fans and perhaps incase club confidence faster? For instance, fans at Man Utd would be delighted to see homegrown talent come through, whereas Real Madrid would expect you to buy superstars. I do understand that you should play the game how YOU want - so this feature wouldn't be set in stone. As I say, for those who want to continue traditions of clubs would gain extra special praise. The AI could also follow suite with such methods and gain similiar traits.

For longetivity, the tradition could be calculated from transfers over the last decade - taking into account the average age and their reputation of players brought in. This could be part of the summary (history) you are presented with as you join a new club.