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Hey all, I’ve been trying to make a 41212 narrow formation work in the way I picture football working, in my vision. I transferred from the 41221, and just couldn’t pick up anywhere near as many goals, as well as being defensively poorer, forcing me to switch back. Could I get any ideas about what’s going wrong? Using the WBa as a WBs is an option, and the HB can’t be a DLPd as the defensive position doesn’t work with only 2 CB, from what I’ve observed. The two tactics I’ve been using are below. I have mainly CFa’s, but I do have Erling Haland as well.

0888915A-5F94-4FA6-9A85-64454B62BC73.png

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56 minutes ago, Arsenal457 said:

the HB can’t be a DLPd as the defensive position doesn’t work with only 2 CB, from what I’ve observed

 

56 minutes ago, Arsenal457 said:

I have mainly CFa’s, but I do have Erling Haland as well

Sorry, but I really don't understand what you are trying to say by the above remarks. 

Anyway, let's see how you could improve the narrow diamond tactic (which I have experience with from my Man Utd save). 

58 minutes ago, Arsenal457 said:

0888915A-5F94-4FA6-9A85-64454B62BC73.png

First off, playing both strikers in the same role does not make much sense (even if they are on different duties). If one is played in a creator role (such as CF, DLF, F9), then the other should be a simple runner/scorer type, like AF, poacher, PF or TM. 

Secondly, your central midfield does not offer any defensive cover for the two attacking wing-backs. The HB is left to help the defense on his own when the opposition intercept your attack and launch a counter, which can largely explain your defensive problems. This is further compounded by your needlessly aggressive out-of-possession instructions (extreme pressing coupled with high DL in the first place). 

I'll now give you an example of a sensible and well-balanced narrow 442 diamond setup, which should hopefully give you some food for thought.

Let's imagine you want to use both the RPM and CF roles (assuming both players are right-footed). How they could be incorporated into a narrow diamond system sensibly? For example:

CFsu     AF/PO

AMat

CAR/BWMsu   RPM

HB

WBat      CDde    CDde     WBsu

SKsu/de

 

 

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The HB comment was saying that I’ve had other people recommend using a DLPd, but I found the DLPd wasn’t deep enough. The Haland comment was saying that I have a few strikers that I use as a CFa, but Haland isn’t a good CFa. What would you recommend for the defensive settings, and are they too high for both tactics?

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12 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

The HB comment was saying that I’ve had other people recommend using a DLPd, but I found the DLPd wasn’t deep enough. 

 

7 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

I was absolutely wrong with not being able to use a DLPd, it works fine

Okay :thup: 

 

12 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

The Haland comment was saying that I have a few strikers that I use as a CFa, but Haland isn’t a good CFa

Why do you think he is not a good CF? Does he lack the attributes needed for the CF role, or you base your assumption merely on the "role suitability" circle? 

 

12 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

What would you recommend for the defensive settings, and are they too high for both tactics?

Yes, they are too high in both tactics (as far as I am concerned). Given that you play on the Positive mentality, this would be my recommended settings:

- higher DL

- standard LOE

- default (medium) pressing

- offside trap

- and split block via player instructions for the 4 most advanced players

I don't know who is your GK, but - depending on his attributes - you may consider playing him on support duty.

Btw, you probably do not need higher tempo when you play on the Positive mentality (plus using the be more expressive instruction).

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And be careful with the counter-press, especially in the narrow diamond tactic. Because in the narrow systems the flanks are inherently vulnerable, so the opposition may take advantage of that to beat your counter-press. 

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The diamond lacks penetration - the deepest player defends, the middle player support and the highest player attacks - this just creates gaps, but does not promote dynamism. There is a real lack of movement in that midfield too - as a midfield unit, you need some lateral movement in there.

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11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

and split block via player instructions for the 4 most advanced players

I have no idea how to do that, and what PI’s to use for that, and why?

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9 hours ago, Arsenal457 said:

I have no idea how to do that, and what PI’s to use for that, and why?

Split block is very simple - just tell both strikers, AMC and the more attack-minded CM to close down more. If you use a BWM, then only the front 3 players should be told to close down more via PIs.

Team pressing however needs to remain on the default (medium) position.

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3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Split block is very simple - just tell both strikers, AMC and the more attack-minded CM to close down more. If you use a BWM, then only the front 3 players should be told to close down more via PIs.

Team pressing however needs to remain on the default (medium) position.

Alright, I’ll give it a try

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5 ore fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

Split block is very simple - just tell both strikers, AMC and the more attack-minded CM to close down more. If you use a BWM, then only the front 3 players should be told to close down more via PIs.

Team pressing however needs to remain on the default (medium) position.

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This is the way I'm try to play right now: I've ended 2nd in Serie A (predicted 4), but my AM and the 2 strikers have usually very poor ratings. Any suggestion?

I followed the infos about split block but I can't understand why I cannot have all my team pressing hard. Plus I've tried to use IFs or IWS to gain more width but it's impossibile, they always play very bad.

Any suggestion to improve my tactict? Thank you!

Edited by sejo
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51 minutes ago, sejo said:

This is the way I'm try to play right now: I've ended 2nd in Serie A (predicted 4), but my AM and the 2 strikers have usually very poor ratings. Any suggestion?

I would make a lot of changes to your tactic if it was my save. But given that you obviously overachieved - predicted 4th, finished 2nd - the tactic is clearly doing the job for you despite all its shortcomings (in the first place the huge number of totally needless instructions). 

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1 minuto fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

I would make a lot of changes to your tactic if it was my save. But given that you obviously overachieved - predicted 4th, finished 2nd - the tactic is clearly doing the job for you despite all its shortcomings (in the first place the huge number of totally needless instructions). 

Can you tell me which and why? I would appreciate

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Just now, sejo said:

Can you tell me which and why? I would appreciate

You should start a separate thread, because this one was created by another person, so it would be unfair to hijack it from him.

Once you start that new thread and post your tactic there, I'll gladly come by to offer advice :thup:

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