Some observations

[Ein]

Some observations from my ongoing campaign:

1. Players can pick up traits from their teammates. I can understand that and I'm not averse to the idea of the manager having less control. However, there is no logic to it. I've had players pick up traits from teammates who are not favourites and not even in the same social group. The only influencing factor seems to be that of playing in the same position so you can have a deep-lying CM randomly pick up traits from an attacking CM. Is this a bug and will it fixed?

 

2. I've had players lose determination without being in a mentoring group. Is this the same issue as 1 (players being randomly influenced by their teammates)?
 

3. Players tend to lose bravery when they get injured. Can bravery go up with time or will players end up fearing/avoiding challenges by the end of their careers?

4. There are two individuals called 'Paul Balsom' (both good sports scientists/data analysts) at Leicester and OH Leuven (IIRC). They are born in the same year but have different birthdays. Are they the same individual and if so is this a bug?

5. Manager interactions/press conferences tend to be completely random/unrealistic e.g. I praise Klopp in a pre-match conference and in reaction to this he storms out from his or Pochettino constantly taking cheap digs at me (managing Spurs) in spite of his professional personality. I guess we're supposed to completely ignore this side of the game?

 

6. Same with pre-match tactical briefing really. Players get a morale boost if you repetitively specify mentality or tactics but nothing happens or the players oppose you if you say something else. Is this something to be ignored as well?

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Ein said:

1. Players can pick up traits from their teammates. I can understand that and I'm not averse to the idea of the manager having less control. However, there is no logic to it. I've had players pick up traits from teammates who are not favourites and not even in the same social group. The only influencing factor seems to be that of playing in the same position so you can have a deep-lying CM randomly pick up traits from an attacking CM. Is this a bug and will it fixed?

There are 3 ways this can happen. Good relationship with a teammate, same social group or in the same training unit.

5 minutes ago, Ein said:

2. I've had players lose determination without being in a mentoring group. Is this the same issue as 1 (players being randomly influenced by their teammates)?

Coach reports would indicate that it's the squad's overall personality having an effect. This happens with young players though. Are you talking about young players?

 

7 minutes ago, Ein said:

4. There are two individuals called 'Paul Balsom' (both good sports scientists/data analysts) at Leicester and OH Leuven (IIRC). They are born in the same year but have different birthdays. Are they the same individual and if so is this a bug?

Worth checking in the database/research issues section of the bugs forum.

[Ein]

7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

There are 3 ways this can happen. Good relationship with a teammate, same social group or in the same training unit.

Hmm I see. Belonging to the same training unit might have been responsible then. In this case, I'm not sure how we can avoid the possibility of having, say, playmakers or DLFs pick up undesirable traits like 'gets ball forward' or 'runs with ball' from other CMs/CFs in their training unit.
 

7 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Coach reports would indicate that it's the squad's overall personality having an effect. This happens with young players though. Are you talking about young players?

Yes, it happened with a couple of youngsters who I promoted to the first team. I did not have them mentored because of their mentors' traits but they still lost determination in spite of the squad's overall high determination.

[LukasZ_VCF]

29 minutes ago, Ein said:

Some observations from my ongoing campaign:

1. Players can pick up traits from their teammates. I can understand that and I'm not averse to the idea of the manager having less control. However, there is no logic to it. I've had players pick up traits from teammates who are not favourites and not even in the same social group. The only influencing factor seems to be that of playing in the same position so you can have a deep-lying CM randomly pick up traits from an attacking CM. Is this a bug and will it fixed?

 

2. I've had players lose determination without being in a mentoring group. Is this the same issue as 1 (players being randomly influenced by their teammates)?
 

3. Players tend to lose bravery when they get injured. Can bravery go up with time or will players end up fearing/avoiding challenges by the end of their careers?

4. There are two individuals called 'Paul Balsom' (both good sports scientists/data analysts) at Leicester and OH Leuven (IIRC). They are born in the same year but have different birthdays. Are they the same individual and if so is this a bug?

5. Manager interactions/press conferences tend to be completely random/unrealistic e.g. I praise Klopp in a pre-match conference and in reaction to this he storms out from his or Pochettino constantly taking cheap digs at me (managing Spurs) in spite of his professional personality. I guess we're supposed to completely ignore this side of the game?

 

6. Same with pre-match tactical briefing really. Players get a morale boost if you repetitively specify mentality or tactics but nothing happens or the players oppose you if you say something else. Is this something to be ignored as well?

 

 

Yea it's too much they are so random and so many of them after 4 seasons like max.number that they can get... I have players full of them ;/

 

I was setting the mentoring groups like goalkeepers, central defenders, side defenders, defensive midf., central mid, attacking midf. wingers, strikers and even like centr. midf. 2 if I put there players like 1 with high determination or with good personality to teach players with worst.

 

I though it would be the only way it would be transferred except of training it manually, but it seems they can just get it random from other players

[HUNT3R]

13 minutes ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

 

 

Yea it's too much they are so random and so many of them after 4 seasons like max.number that they can get... I have players full of them ;/

 

I was setting the mentoring groups like goalkeepers, central defenders, side defenders, defensive midf., central mid, attacking midf. wingers, strikers and even like centr. midf. 2 if I put there players like 1 with high determination or with good personality to teach players with worst.

 

I though it would be the only way it would be transferred except of training it manually, but it seems they can just get it random from other players

Traits will pass through Mentoring and it'll be much more likely through Mentoring than the OP's case.

[LukasZ_VCF]

I will check later when I get home but I am sure I have max numbers of traits of players that are not in the same mentoring group

[Ein]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Traits will pass through Mentoring and it'll be much more likely through Mentoring than the OP's case.

This has not been my experience so far. Players keep acquiring traits without being in a mentoring group (averaging one a season) till they reach the limit, as LukasZ said.

I am finding this to be the only major downside to an otherwise excellent game. I hope they fix it.

[plcarlos]

2 minutes ago, Ein said:

This has not been my experience so far. Players keep acquiring traits (average one a season) till they reach the limit, as LukasZ said.

As per above - this can happen 3 ways:

Mentoring is 1

Social Group is another

Good relationship with a teammate is another

I am tempted to log it as a bug myself - as it takes away a lot of my ability to create players based on what i want to create.

One thing i will add here - I think that attributes count a bit more in the ability to train\untrain\pickup traits:

Dele can't untrain dwells on ball due to low decisions - I personally believe this has to hit 13\14 before I can do that

Chiesa won't learn early crosses, as it''s deemed a trait for inferior players - It's almost like being told "No! you are NOT allowed to created variety in the way your wingers play!"

I've also got CM players with high dribbling that get runs with ball through centre, but I want them as holders (The other traits add well for this), but the coaches warn me against that and it fails due to the trait suiting the attribute.

@Ein

3 - Bravery - can indeed go down after an injury, but it restores back post injury, and I'm not 100% on this it could be indirectly trained via certain sessions, although that would be marginal i imagine, maybe it could go up by 2/3 overall. I don't know if it drops further overall (I don't keep many injury -prone players).

5 - I manage spurs - Poch slates me as tactically inept a few times, that's despite me beating him over 3 seasons, 8 games including cups, and using 5 tactics.. This is also despite him liking me overall...I ignore this. Managers storm out if they don't like a question randomly. It's a part of the game that has had little attention, so I amuse myself by making my own enemies (I'm Desperately trying to get Wenger who likes me at the moment to hate me - Spurs fan, so i can't have him like me!)

 

[Ein]

11 minutes ago, plcarlos said:

I've also got CM players with high dribbling that get runs with ball through centre, but I want them as holders (The other traits add well for this), but the coaches warn me against that and it fails due to the trait suiting the attribute.

Yes I've had Winks (who I played as DLP) gain 'runs with ball'. He presumably got it from more advanced CMs in his training unit like Dembele or Dele. Now he can't unlearn it so it's basically ruined the player for me.

[Ein]

I think randomly gaining traits from other players, apart from seemingly being too frequent, is too one-dimensional. What would be better (if we want to reduce direct control by managers) would be to make tactical instructions/playing position/overall team tactics also play a part in what traits players are likely to gain. So if you or the AI constantly plays someone as a DLP (which automatically instructs him to hold position), the player should be more likely to pick up compatible traits like 'stays back' or 'comes deep to get ball'. Or if you play in a certain way (e.g. overly possessive football), the players should be more likely to gain traits like 'plays short simple passes'. This can be seen IRL with clubs or managers who buy 'ready-made' players (which in game terms translates to having players with traits) from clubs with similar styles (e.g. Liverpool favouring players from Southampton or Mourinho favouring players from defensive teams like Atletico Madrid).

[Seb Wassell]

5 hours ago, Ein said:

Some observations from my ongoing campaign:

1. Players can pick up traits from their teammates. I can understand that and I'm not averse to the idea of the manager having less control. However, there is no logic to it. I've had players pick up traits from teammates who are not favourites and not even in the same social group. The only influencing factor seems to be that of playing in the same position so you can have a deep-lying CM randomly pick up traits from an attacking CM. Is this a bug and will it fixed?

 

2. I've had players lose determination without being in a mentoring group. Is this the same issue as 1 (players being randomly influenced by their teammates)?
 

3. Players tend to lose bravery when they get injured. Can bravery go up with time or will players end up fearing/avoiding challenges by the end of their careers?

4. There are two individuals called 'Paul Balsom' (both good sports scientists/data analysts) at Leicester and OH Leuven (IIRC). They are born in the same year but have different birthdays. Are they the same individual and if so is this a bug?

5. Manager interactions/press conferences tend to be completely random/unrealistic e.g. I praise Klopp in a pre-match conference and in reaction to this he storms out from his or Pochettino constantly taking cheap digs at me (managing Spurs) in spite of his professional personality. I guess we're supposed to completely ignore this side of the game?

 

6. Same with pre-match tactical briefing really. Players get a morale boost if you repetitively specify mentality or tactics but nothing happens or the players oppose you if you say something else. Is this something to be ignored as well?

1. Being in the same Training Unit can lead to players picking up traits from one another. Functionally speaking, they are training together on a daily basis so can end up mimicking one another's playing style/traits. This should be comparatively rare compared to those gained through Mentoring however, which is a much more focused method of grouping players in (and out) of training. Mentoring and coaching are the main tools for gaining (/losing) traits. Social groups do not directly impact trait transference, but being in the same Social Group will benefit Mentoring and vice versa.

We are aware that it may be a little too easy to gain traits via Units alone and are looking to shift the balance further towards Mentoring.

2. Players' personalities can be influenced outside of Mentoring groups, although Mentoring groups are the most focused and most heavily weighted method for this. Other ways of influencing personality are social groups, welcome to club mentoring, in-game events and development.

3. Bravery can indeed drop when a player is (seriously) injured, sometimes severely. If the player stays clear of injury for a decent amount of time following recovery Bravery can rise again, often returning to its previous value (it should not however exceed this of course).

4. It would be worth raising this in the appropriate Database and Research bugs thread please.

5. If you believe you have uncovered a bug or inconsistency here please do raise it in the appropriate area of the bugs forum, thank you.

6. Could you expand here please?

1 hour ago, Ein said:

I think randomly gaining traits from other players, apart from seemingly being too frequent, is too one-dimensional. What would be better (if we want to reduce direct control by managers) would be to make tactical instructions/playing position/overall team tactics also play a part in what traits players are likely to gain. So if you or the AI constantly plays someone as a DLP (which automatically instructs him to hold position), the player should be more likely to pick up compatible traits like 'stays back' or 'comes deep to get ball'. Or if you play in a certain way (e.g. overly possessive football), the players should be more likely to gain traits like 'plays short simple passes'. This can be seen IRL with clubs or managers who buy 'ready-made' players (which in game terms translates to having players with traits) from clubs with similar styles (e.g. Liverpool favouring players from Southampton or Mourinho favouring players from defensive teams like Atletico Madrid).

This exists in the form of coaching players to take on certain traits, which can be found on the individual training page. Just playing someone as a DLP isn't going to make them pass short, you need to coach them to do that.

2 hours ago, plcarlos said:

3 - Bravery - can indeed go down after an injury, but it restores back post injury, and I'm not 100% on this it could be indirectly trained via certain sessions, although that would be marginal i imagine, maybe it could go up by 2/3 overall. I don't know if it drops further overall (I don't keep many injury -prone players).

Bravery cannot be trained.

Hopefully that answers everything raised here. Any further questions/issues please do not hesitate to raise them.

[Tom Elliott]

9 hours ago, Ein said:

4. There are two individuals called 'Paul Balsom' (both good sports scientists/data analysts) at Leicester and OH Leuven (IIRC). They are born in the same year but have different birthdays. Are they the same individual and if so is this a bug?

This is because Balsom works for both clubs (both owned by King Power). At the moment there's no way for the DB to allow someone to work for two clubs so we duplicate the person.

We didn't have a birth date (only a birth year) for FM19, but a very helpful poster on the research forums has managed to source one for me and I've updated it from the Leicester side for the January update, and I've requested the change is made on the Leuven side of things too :)

[Ein]

Thanks for the explanations.

4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

We are aware that it may be a little too easy to gain traits via Units alone and are looking to shift the balance further towards Mentoring. 

Great, I think that would be better. When can we expect this update if I may ask?

 

4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

2. Players' personalities can be influenced outside of Mentoring groups, although Mentoring groups are the most focused and most heavily weighted method for this. Other ways of influencing personality are social groups, welcome to club mentoring, in-game events and development.

Interesting, I didn't know that. So welcoming to club is not just a one-time event but an ongoing mentoring process. Is there a way to choose the mentor or is he chosen automatically from among the team leaders?

 

4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

6. Could you expand here please? 

I only seem to get positive replies (those green likes which I'm guessing translate to morale boosts) when emphasizing mentality and formation. When I emphasize something else, I get no feedback whatsoever.

 

29 minutes ago, tomlcfc said:

This is because Balsom works for both clubs (both owned by King Power). At the moment there's no way for the DB to allow someone to work for two clubs so we duplicate the person.

We didn't have a birth date (only a birth year) for FM19, but a very helpful poster on the research forums has managed to source one for me and I've updated it from the Leicester side for the January update, and I've requested the change is made on the Leuven side of things too

Ah ok, that makes sense. Apparently this guy also works for Sweden!

[Ein]

Also, a question if I may. Eriksen's tactical familiarity has remained low throughout the season. Why is this?

[Seb Wassell]

17 hours ago, Ein said:

Interesting, I didn't know that. So welcoming to club is not just a one-time event but an ongoing mentoring process. Is there a way to choose the mentor or is he chosen automatically from among the team leaders?

It sets up a short month-long mentoring session between the new singing and the player asked to welcome them, which is often the captain or a player form a similar background (it informs you which player: "Ask X to welcome Y to club"). This is a short but powerful mentoring mechanic. It affects personality only, nothing on-field, eg. Traits.

[Seb Wassell]

16 hours ago, Ein said:

Also, a question if I may. Eriksen's tactical familiarity has remained low throughout the season. Why is this?

Is he being moved around a lot or playing in unfamiliar roles? As can be seen, it is his Position/Role/Duty that is low.

[Ein]

21 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Is he being moved around a lot or playing in unfamiliar roles? As can be seen, it is his Position/Role/Duty that is low.

Not much. He's mostly been playing in the AML position (I'd say 80% of the time) as an advanced playmaker though sometimes I move him to the AMC or MC position during the game.

By the way, in the tactical familiarity Position/Role/Duty bar, what does the faint green colour stand for?

[Ein]

Another player ruined. The guy I would least like to run with the ball has just gained that trait on his own (without being in a mentoring group). Please fix this as it's making the game highly unenjoyable.

[Ein]

So at the end of the first season, Man City sacked Guardiola after coming 1 point short of the title. I logged it in as a bug here.
They ended up appointing Klopp as manager which is even more unrealistic. At Liverpool he already has a very strong squad, a similar transfer budget, his own highly developed players, etc. Why would he leave? I would only expect someone with the personality of a mercenary to leave in such circumstances. Things just feel too random, without personality. The game acts as if it is not taking any such factors into account and relying too strictly and one-dimensionally on mechanics like season goals and club reputation points.