What would you do... (help)

[Mrlee.1986]

Firstly apologies if I bang on a bit here but I'm going to try and put as much info as possible... 

I brought Alex Semizadeh as a back up/youth filler for my spurs team from Bolton, scout reports all good, nothing scary to report, but after he signs, I then find out I can't get him a work permit.. he's Iranian (14th in WR) he's 19, with 7 full caps - doesn't tell me when his debut was, all I can see is he has played 2 out of 6 (this calendar year, but can't see line ups before then - I'm fully aware it's 365 days year, not just calendar year) 

Anyway, back to the point, the guy has 387 days left to gain British nationality, now bearing in mind he has no work permit so he can't play for me, is it worth loaning him out?  should I keep him for the remaining days just training? Or should I cut losses and sell?

[puffascruffowitz]

Why not just loan him out, but make sure it's an English club and make sure that he'll be the main man there.

[Cougar2010]

2 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

Why not just loan him out, but make sure it's an English club and make sure that he'll be the main man there.

Why would you loan him out?

If he can't get a WP for Spurs he isn't going to at any other English club for a loan deal, short story is he won't be able to play for an English club.

You either cut your losses and sell or you keep him for a year until he hopefully takes up nationality.

If you keep him you risk him being unhappy and he may not even take up nationality when the year is up although there is a decent chance he will.

Personally as he is only a backup/filler player I would cut my losses and find a player who doesn't need a WP to fill a backup role.

[westy8chimp]

in general its nigh on impossible to sell a player you just bought anyway. That's why i hate first season.. im stuck with the rubbish the previous manager bought in ... if lucky i can sell them in Jan window.

if you signed him as backup/yth ,,, and gave him a squad status that reflected that... he shouldn't be too unhappy stuck in the reserves for a year. if hes good enough prospect then keep him, tutor him, use the year to train him up.

[Mrlee.1986]

58 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

Why not just loan him out, but make sure it's an English club and make sure that he'll be the main man there.

Exactly as @Cougar2010 says, he won't get a wp (although I'm not sure how he managed one at Bolton but that's a different matter) and he's on a youngster contract so should be alright with his happiness.. (famous last words)  

[puffascruffowitz]

1 hour ago, Cougar2010 said:

Why would you loan him out?

If he can't get a WP for Spurs he isn't going to at any other English club for a loan deal, short story is he won't be able to play for an English club.

You either cut your losses and sell or you keep him for a year until he hopefully takes up nationality.

If you keep him you risk him being unhappy and he may not even take up nationality when the year is up although there is a decent chance he will.

Personally as he is only a backup/filler player I would cut my losses and find a player who doesn't need a WP to fill a backup role.

Maybe I'm way off, but my hope by loaning him would be that he plays often enough and performs well enough to earn a higher percentage of caps for Iran which let's face it isn't an international power house.

Plus then even if he doesn't get more caps he'll still be only one year away from UK citizenship so just loaning him out for the year would get him close to that point.

[Cougar2010]

34 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

Maybe I'm way off, but my hope by loaning him would be that he plays often enough and performs well enough to earn a higher percentage of caps for Iran which let's face it isn't an international power house.

Plus then even if he doesn't get more caps he'll still be only one year away from UK citizenship so just loaning him out for the year would get him close to that point.

But you've missed the point he can't play for an English club without a WP which he can't get.  If he could get a WP then the OP would be using him.

[Mrlee.1986]

40 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

But you've missed the point he can't play for an English club without a WP which he can't get.  If he could get a WP then the OP would be using him.

I think @puffascruffowitz means loan him out to a foreign club and hope he gets the wp through playing well and getting picked for his country (to qualify through caps rather than nationality) 

[Cougar2010]

Just now, Mrlee.1986 said:

I think @puffascruffowitz means loan him out to a foreign club and hope he gets the wp through playing well and getting picked for his country (to qualify through caps rather than nationality) 

Well his original reply stated an English club but there could be a case for loaning him out hoping to get a WP if he gets enough caps during the season.  You bring him back next year with a WP and then by the time his contract is up you hope he qualifies for nationality.

[puffascruffowitz]

Whoops, you're right I forgot the part where he can't play in England! Well then yeah, I guess have to sell him. Unless like you've both mentioned you could loan him anywhere he can play in hopes of him getting caps.

I'm not sure in England, can the progress towards citizenship be "put on hold"? I know in Spain I think 90 days you have to return to the country to continue. But if in England you can just stop it indefinitely then he'll still be close to UK citizenship.

[dieu]

An extra bonus to sending him abroad on loan is that you get get a loan fee as well. I had i 17 year old german wonderkid that was good enough for first team football in the premier league, but could not get a work permit because of Brexit. I loaned him out to different clubs for 4 seasons before he got a work permit. In those 4 years I got my money back in loan fees and I got an amazing player for "free" 

[Mrlee.1986]

Oh no I know, that's just how I read the second post, but as for Iran not being an international powerhouse, true, but 14th in the world rankings in game makes them a pretty decent side lol.   But anyway I offered him out for loan in the end, added him to the dof's development list, but no one was interested anyway, so guessing the poor fella is stuffed for at least 6 months.

and just to answer the last part, it's accumulated for England so it can be broken up. 

[Cougar2010]

4 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

Whoops, you're right I forgot the part where he can't play in England! Well then yeah, I guess have to sell him. Unless like you've both mentioned you could loan him anywhere he can play in hopes of him getting caps.

I'm not sure in England, can the progress towards citizenship be "put on hold"? I know in Spain I think 90 days you have to return to the country to continue. But if in England you can just stop it indefinitely then he'll still be close to UK citizenship.

I'm not 100% on the "on hold" part but managing in other countries I have seen many players that seem part qualified in a few different nations and I presume if they returned they would just pick up where they left off.

Maybe its an EU thing with Brexit perhaps putting a hole in that path?

[Mrlee.1986]

Right I'm now completely confused (or really dumb) 

we are now in Jan window, he signed for me on 09/06/2018, now 02/01/19 and his days to gain nationality are still 387? How has it not moved when he's been in my under 23s for 6 months? And how is he being picked for his country (Iran, world ranking 16th) played 8 out of a possible 14 - (57.14%) - prem rules state 45% for countries between 11-20 so why is he not getting a permit? 

[Mrlee.1986]

Anyone have any idea?