diddydaddydoddy Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I like to play as close to real life as poss with Liverpool - gegenpressing, but I just can't seem to quite get Jordan Henderson right in terms of position - deep-lying playmaker, B2B, CM and all on support. I had a similar issue with Steve Gerrard when he was playing deeper in his last couple of seasons too. I play him in a 4231 with Can/Lucas or 4312 with Can and Lucas/Milner. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 How specifically do you want to see him playing for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I'm playing him as a BWM at the moment - duty switches depending on what I'm doing with Can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 How specifically do you want to see him playing for you? The easy answer is as realistic as possible to real life. Very high workrate, great engine, can pick out a long pass, late runs beyond attackers, disciplined defensively - I suppose an all-rounder really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimslaa Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I guess the answer really depends on how you've set up the rest of your 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-1-2, and how you think "as close to real life as poss with Liverpool" translates to FM. What are your team instructions? What roles do the other players have? What player instructions are being used? How close to what you're trying to achieve do you think you are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Runs beyond attackers and defensive discipline sound like conflicting concepts to me. You either want him staying disciplined in front of the defence or not. "Very high workrate, great engine, can pick out a long pass" are his attributes, which won't be effected by what position you give him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojam Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 roaming playmaker or b2b basing on 'real life' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 roaming playmaker or b2b basing on 'real life' But actually that's not his role at the moment. Against MU last week, prior to Allen coming on, he was very much part of a double pivot along with Can and was Liverpool's main ball winner. He's definitely become far more disciplined under Klopp and IMO is becoming more of a traditional LFC central midfielder in the mould of a McMahon or more likely a Whelan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Buddie Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 In my opinion he is either a ball winning midfielder or just a simple central midfielder. He's definitely not a playmaker or roaming midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeid2000 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Box to box for me. Puts his energy and work rate to great use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SperoM Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think it's tough. I see him as a ball winning midfielder that also gets up and supports the attack with some incisive passes, late runs into the box and some nice crosses too from deep in the opponent's zone (look at what set up the Firmino goal against United for example). I guess maybe a CM (S) set to close down more? He doesn't really go to ground often, so staying on feet. Maybe set him to also "get further forward" but I think that would disrupt his defensive positioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think it's tough. I see him as a ball winning midfielder that also gets up and supports the attack with some incisive passes, late runs into the box and some nice crosses too from deep in the opponent's zone (look at what set up the Firmino goal against United for example).I guess maybe a CM (S) set to close down more? He doesn't really go to ground often, so staying on feet. Maybe set him to also "get further forward" but I think that would disrupt his defensive positioning. It needs noting that against United his role changed once Allen came on. Initially LFC played a 4411/442 with he & Can playing as the shield in front of the back 4 hence he was fairly disciplined. The Allen change saw them switch to a 4141 which in turn gave him a little more freedom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 Runs beyond attackers and defensive discipline sound like conflicting concepts to me. You either want him staying disciplined in front of the defence or not."Very high workrate, great engine, can pick out a long pass" are his attributes, which won't be effected by what position you give him. TBH it was more of an indication on how complete/versatile he can be which in turn makes it hard to consider his ideal role in FM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 I don't personally quite put him in the ball-winning role, simply because he isn't Mascherano-esque, doesn't often go to ground to win a tackle (though I appreciate that anticipation, pressing etc attributes are equally adept in winning possession back) and more importantly the role of BWM might then stifle his more offensive traits. When he's played more disciplined (ie v Man Utd) I see him more of a CM Def or possibly CM Sup - maybe the latter is the case. B2B has merit too. I'll start a new save as CM Sup and see what happens. As I said the key thing for me is realism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 TBH it was more of an indication on how complete/versatile he can be which in turn makes it hard to consider his ideal role in FM His ideal role will be whatever the team needs. It's the curse of versatility. I don't think he has the quality in the final third or passing ability to make a great forward thinking player, but the ability he does have would be a great advantage in a BWM-S role, which in game still finds itself in key positions to influence attacks quite regularly, and often in space on the edge of the final third. There's a temptation with players with great stamina and workrate to make them work hard and get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. But in a more restrictive role you'll see the player perform to a higher level in the late stages of games because they'll be far less tired than the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 I'm playing him as a BWM at the moment - duty switches depending on what I'm doing with Can. Interested to know how you play the two together Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 There's a temptation with players with great stamina and workrate to make them work hard and get up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. But in a more restrictive role you'll see the player perform to a higher level in the late stages of games because they'll be far less tired than the opposition. Good point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Interested to know how you play the two together At the moment I'm trying something a bit quirky that seems to be working. I have Can as a RGA at DMCL & Henderson as BWM(S) at MCR, both with some PI's to keep them more disciplined positionally. It seems to be working, but obviously is part of a bigger overall approach. In the past, I've set them up as a pretty conventional shielding CM pair with Can as DLP(S) and Hendo as BWM(D)/CM(D). As others have said, the thing here is that his role is very much situational and changes dependant on what you want from him. His versatility enables him to be pretty competent at a number of tasks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddydaddydoddy Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 I probably have to accept he's a 'jack of all trades, yet master of none' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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