Tweaking for Away Matches

[ThunderCelt]

Thanks to advice from this forum, I've developed a couple of decent looking tactics - a 4-1-2-2-1 (DM and two wingers) and a slightly more adventurous 4-2-3-1. Both are based on keeping possession and wearing the opposition down - short passing, pushing up, closing down, low tempo etc, with standard/structured mentality and shape. Home form isn't a problem - in my two saves Chelsea have a more or less 100% home record, and Aldershot are 5th or 6th in the home league table, which I'm very happy with given the squad we've got.

It's away I'm struggling; Chelsea lose significantly more than they win, and Aldershot's away record is near-relegation - we don't lose many, but draw matches against weaker sides we should probably beat. I'd have thought a patient tactic should do fine away from home but I'm clearly doing something wrong, and I've tried everything I can think of to improve results away from home without resorting to a completely different tactic, which I don't want to as I like what I've got. Does anyone have any suggestions for improving my away form?

[dannyxx20]

I would remove "low tempo" if you want to wear the opposition down.

Have you tried using your home tactics for away matches too? (I've found it best not to chop n change and just stick with my home tactics for most away games)

And I use "passionate" tone at the start of the match.

[herne79]

In all honesty you shouldn't need to change much (if anything) regardless of playing home or away if you have a solid foundation.

To see what's going on we'd need some more info to help you .

Detail your tactics (roles, duties, PIs, TIs). How do you handle training and match prep? Pre-match, half time and post match team talks? What specifically is going wrong away from home? How are you leaking goals? Are you using the same tactics for your Chelsea save as you do for Aldershot?

You say you have 2 tactics, under what conditions do you decide to employ one or the other?

[ThunderCelt]

Thanks Both

I'm mainly using 4-1-2-2-1, and not particularly enjoying/grasping the tactical side of the game my preference is to use a very small number of 'generic' tactics. I appreciate that means less success than studying player strengths and weaknesses, opposition etc, but that's a trade-off I'm willing to take. Anyway, for my Aldershot game I'm lying 11th, which is fine because by squad isn't very good. My home form is fine; I'm 9th in the home table which I'll take while I rebuild the team. But I'm 18th in the away table with a record of 4/7/6, and my problem is that I can't find a way of making turning some of the draws into wins as trying to open the game up a bit more ends up turning them into defeats instead.

I'm playing Classic so training/team talks/familiarity aren't issues.

I'm using a 4-1-2-2-1 with standard/structured mentality and flexibility. I don't use Player Instructions. TIs are Retain possession/Short passing/Work ball into box/play out of defence/Push up/close down/low tempo. I've recently stopped using get stuck in as the foul and card count was too high. Most goals conceded come from one-twos around the box. I guess my point is that using identical tactics home and away I'd expect to be about in the same place on the home and away table, and I can't work out why that isn't the case, let alone what to do about it. If anything, seeing as I have a cautious approach, I'd expect this to be a better away tactic than home one.

Roles are:

FB x 2 WB (A)

CB X2 CD (D)

DM (D)

CM x 2 CM (A) & DLP (S)

Wingers X 2 IF x 2 (A)

AF (A)

[dannyxx20]

I've never played FMC. Are your WB's being pulled out of position? You could try them on S for away matches and see if that improves your defence.

[bababooey]

Thanks Both

I'm mainly using 4-1-2-2-1, and not particularly enjoying/grasping the tactical side of the game my preference is to use a very small number of 'generic' tactics. I appreciate that means less success than studying player strengths and weaknesses, opposition etc, but that's a trade-off I'm willing to take. Anyway, for my Aldershot game I'm lying 11th, which is fine because by squad isn't very good. My home form is fine; I'm 9th in the home table which I'll take while I rebuild the team. But I'm 18th in the away table with a record of 4/7/6, and my problem is that I can't find a way of making turning some of the draws into wins as trying to open the game up a bit more ends up turning them into defeats instead.

I'm playing Classic so training/team talks/familiarity aren't issues.

I'm using a 4-1-2-2-1 with standard/structured mentality and flexibility. I don't use Player Instructions. TIs are Retain possession/Short passing/Work ball into box/play out of defence/Push up/close down/low tempo. I've recently stopped using get stuck in as the foul and card count was too high. Most goals conceded come from one-twos around the box. I guess my point is that using identical tactics home and away I'd expect to be about in the same place on the home and away table, and I can't work out why that isn't the case, let alone what to do about it. If anything, seeing as I have a cautious approach, I'd expect this to be a better away tactic than home one.

Roles are:

FB x 2 WB (A)

CB X2 CD (D)

DM (D)

CM x 2 CM (A) & DLP (S)

Wingers X 2 IF x 2 (A)

AF (A)

When you stop thinking in terms of "what should happen", and start reacting to what you see on the pitch, results will improve.

I also play Classic mode, good to see another person posting here using FMC.

A couple of things to note in your tactics.

1. You may get beaten down the flanks, particularly when on the road against aggressive teams because you have all attack duties on the flanks. That's not to say it can't work, but it isn't ideal. Especially away from home. For example, if you were to see Chelsea play away to Man United, would you expect Mourinho to instruct both fullbacks to get forward as often as possible, and be that attacking minded? Probably not

2. Your central midfield triangle is a bit static. The DLP-S isn't an ideal linking player, he's much more of a holding player. So, given that you already use a holding player as a DM, you might want to try something like CM-S, B2B, or AP-S next to your other CM. Its' really important to make sure your team has (in central midfield) a holder, a creator, and a runner. You also want to make sure you have someone who makes off the ball runs, and someone who makes on the ball runs. My setup in the same formation that you use is AP-A, B2B, and HB. The AP-A is my creator AND he makes on the ball runs. The B2B is a linking player / off the ball runner. The HB is obviously the holder. So, that's just one example of what you can do to spread out all those tasks.

3. Your striker is probably going to be pretty isolated in this system. Or, he won't be getting proper supply from nearby teammates. The reason being is you essentially have 3 number 9 type players. The inside forward on attack acts like a wide striker (think Ronaldo for example). The AF-A is a classic #9 as well, so then my question would be: who is your #10? Granted, you can consider your CM-A a #10 if you like, but he is too far away from the striker to create a partnership that functions effectively. And that's what you need to do.. create a partnership that works. In your 4-1-2-2-1 the striker partnership is a 3-way job between the striker and those two inside forwards. A much more balanced and functional setup would be one where the striker acts as a #10, (any supporting duty / trequartista) and the two IF's both still set to attack. This way you'd have 1 #10, and 2 #9's. That would work really well, and teams like Barcelona have employed a similar thing. OR you could vary things further by making one of your IF's a winger. This way you can stretch one side of the pitch a bit more and create a more varied and unpredictable attack.

4. A good way to start approaching away matches is to strip off a lot of TI's. So.. perhaps go with whatever your base formation will be + a team mentality of standard, and then choose a shape. A lot of times I send my team out with no more than 4 TI's, and even then that can sometimes be too much to start with, unless I'm trying to do something really specific.

5. Your team shape needs to be adjusted according to the types of roles you give players. The more specialist roles you assign, the more redundant fluidity becomes. So, the opposite is true as well. The more generic roles you assign, the more that your "structured" approach becomes redundant. DLP/AP/Trequartista/Poacher/WTM/ and Raumdeuter are examples of specialist roles. Some roles can be sort of inbetween like.. half back, box to box, and complete forward. A good rule of thumb is that any of the above specialists count for "1", and the inbetween's count for 1/2. Add up how many specialists you have, and then see if your shape selection makes sense. For example.. if you have 2 specialist players, a fluid or balanced shape would be great. But a highly structured shape wouldn't be ideal.

6. If you're finding that the other team is scoring after playing one-two's around the box then you need to stop the supply. Where are they attacking from, and why did they get the ball right to your box? That's a very general question but, an important one to ask. This is how you start to problem solve within a match.. If you see a striker on the other team who is constantly getting in behind your defense, perhaps you need to drop deeper. Or if the other team is closing your players down quickly, causing you to lose possession easily, then you need to figure out the best way to retain the ball better. It could be to play at a higher tempo and bypass their pressing, OR it could be to slow things down a lot more, and keep it tight. It's all contextual and no answer fits all scenarios.

I hope this helps you!

[TheJanitor]

First of all, I feel that if you have a tactic that works well against oppositions at home, there is no reason to change it for the away matches. What I do once I find my groove is to start with my preferred set-up regardless of the opposition or whether the match is a home/away game. I play on full for the first 15 mins or so (thanks Cleon(?) for this tip) and, according to what I think I see, change mentality. For example, if a team is playing deep against me and I fail to get many good chances, I can drop my mentality to play a bit deeper and more patient, in attempt to draw them higher up the pitch a force them to press more. That way, I feel I don't compromise on my style of play by changing shouts. Of course, this way of playing has its draw-backs and I may abandon it in certain situations, but for me, it's a simplistic but effective way to play. Now all you need (in my opinion at least) is to find a slightly more balanced tactic. The above post has some exellent points on your tactic- I feel like your combo of attacking wing backs could work, but at times may be vulnerable to counter-attacks? I actually like your midfield trio, had success with similar set ups. With the right play, a DLP on support could get forward enough.

[ThunderCelt]

Thank you all, and in particular bababooey. I've put in place your suggestions and it's early days but I look a bit more solid and Aldershot's friendlies in season 2 have seen me dominate and win.

I've also done a holiday test with Chelsea, and results have been better. I still have problems against much weaker sides - it looks as if the tactic isn't adventurous enough against sides who part the bus, so I'll probably develop a more Chelsea-like 4-2-3-1 for such games.

Thanks again.

[bababooey]

Thank you all, and in particular bababooey. I've put in place your suggestions and it's early days but I look a bit more solid and Aldershot's friendlies in season 2 have seen me dominate and win.

I've also done a holiday test with Chelsea, and results have been better. I still have problems against much weaker sides - it looks as if the tactic isn't adventurous enough against sides who part the bus, so I'll probably develop a more Chelsea-like 4-2-3-1 for such games.

Thanks again.

You're welcome. Just note that against teams that sit deep and compact, going more aggressive often exacerbates the problem. In that case you'd be better off slowing the game down and trying to make sure your most creative players are the ones unlocking the defense. So perhaps playing wider, playing out of the back, and a lot of roaming.

[Sussex Hammer]

Not that it will work every time but I am one who fell into the trap of playing defensive when I played away and with a 4132 that just didn't cut it due to too much pressure. Against Chelsea away I tried something a bit different. Control mentality, push much higher up, close down much more, get stuck in and miraculously got a 0-0 draw even with a defender sent off after 65 minutes. At that point I had more chances although obviously Chelsea had the better possession. Of course this approach probably wouldn't work against fast forwards but that day it neutered Costa as I must have kept him away from my goal enough not to get on the end of crosses or Azpil****** long throws.

It has given me food for thought that massive changes away probably aren't needed.

[bababooey]

Don't make changes for the sake of making changes. Only change when you see the need to do so!