FM 14 4-3-3 Formation: Questions about wingers/wingbacks and defending/attacking

[grasu]

I've been playing around with the FM 2014 Beta for about 2 days now and after a number of experiments I settled on a 4-3-3 (4-1-2-2-1 to be more exact) that's set up as follows:

--------GK---------

FB(a)--DC----DC-----FB(a)

----------DM(d)----------

-----BWM(s)-AP(a)-------

--IF(s)------------IF(s)--

-------------AF----------

(PS: Drawing is NOT one of my skills )

The two central defenders have been mixed and matched quite a bit. I had them both on CD Defend for a while, then on LD Stopper, then on CD/LD (Defend/Stopper).

The FBs are automatic because I thought this was best for the team I played. The wingers are support players because they track back much better.

Now, the thing is I'm not feeling very conformable in match with this tactic. I'm 4 matches away from finishing my first season and I'm placed fourth with an expected 3rd place finish and even though this is not bad I've played some truly awful games.

One game, for example, the league topping team beat me with a disastrous 4-1 scoreline on home ground! Other times I seem to be unable to cope with teams playing a counter attacking/through ball style. Overall though, while the tactic has gotten me SOME decent results it feels like it could be better, considering I also had a chance to to improve my squad in the transfer window I should be doing much better (at least 2nd place).

So here's a few questions and I would really appreciate some help:

1. Is my midfield trio set up correctly? I followed a 1D-1S-1A set up that fits my players' profiles best.

2. Should I take another approach with my wingbacks and full backs? This is where most of the goals seem to come from. I can't tell if they're not set up properly or it's just the lack of closing down.

3. Should I take another approach with my wingers? Like a IF/W combo?

Any other things that are "wrong"?

[kazm]

I use the same tactic with some different player settings. I have the same problems you talk about but I also had them while using a 4141 and a 442. Wingers cutting inside shooting from the edge of the box while defenders just keep running backwards not trying to stop them, defenders not doing anything in general. So far it seems like defense is hard/attack is easy in this game. My team is one of the worst 3 in the league which might explain part of this but on the other side I often create a decent amount of pretty good chances.

[RTHerringbone]

Don't be overly concerned with defensive issues at the moment either - you may be trying to fix things that aren't actually your "fault".

There appear to be issues with wide players (in particular) standing off too much, so there are more crosses than there should be, which results in more goals conceded from these areas. It's still Beta, so bugs like these will occur.

The centre of midfield is also a bit clunky at the moment; I'm finding MCs caught up field and then being slow to track back, which means the AI ball carrier has the freedom of midfield for a while.

To mitigate these, you can use a responsible DM Role and get him playing aggressively to shore up the middle.

Out wide, Defensive Wingers rather than Wingers are a good start (I know you're using IFs).

Specific and Tight man marking out wide also helps, but the standing off issue doesn't appear to be avoidable at the moment, but fortunately it doesn't happen all the time either.

[grasu]

Ok, so it's not just me, apparently defense just doesn't work that well. Now, the logical question is, would it still be a good idea to keep the fullbacks on Automatic or should I set them up as attacking and support for a IF/Winger pairing?

[beverage1982]

I've found the issues mentioned by RTHerringbone above happening a bit, but I've also managed to build a 433 that is actually pretty strong defensively as a result. I don't want to say it's an exploit of those issues but it kind of feels that way at the moment.

I'm playing as Villa so not the best squad in the world, but I've played 14 games, conceded just 4. To be fair I'm not scoring many either but shutting out the likes of Arsenal and City is no mean feat.

What I found with this formation is that funnelling the opposition attacks through the centre of the pitch is key to restricting them to long shots, whilst having CBs who are good in the air means that deep crosses from full backs (a real problem with the 41221 in my opinion) is mitigated somewhat.

So, what i've found worked for me (and might for you). Is to put Full backs to Wing Backs as I find it helps them to close down a little higher. And as was said above Tight marking with AML/R helps too.

The key here is opposition instructions. As a pre-match default I close down Full backs and Wingers and show them inside - this funnels the attacks into the centre which is where your formation is at its strongest.

Then it's key that you have the Centre Backs and midfield set up so they can cope with the pressure. I play a triple pivot with my midfield [DM (s), DLP (d), BWM (s)]. it's not very adventurous but it's very good at forcing the opposition to shoot from range. The main thing is to have the DM and CB sit in a defensive triangle that forces opposition to do something special to break through.

it's not perfect, especially with the Villa, and it's not particularly pretty either. but so far it is proving surprisingly effective defensively.

Does that make sense? Probably not, but I hope it helps.

[RTHerringbone]

I don't want to say it's an exploit of those issues but it kind of feels that way at the moment.

When a game is in Beta, you inadvertently do end up exploiting things like this.

Last year had the spell in Beta where wide players were insanely overpowered and you almost couldn't fail to dominate out wide.

The important thing for everyone to remember is that while these issues persist in the Beta, many of them are on the radar to be fixed, so hopefully will be resolved by the time the full release is out. It's therefore also important not to have a hissy fit when any of these "exploits" are rightly sorted out!

To be honest, barring those issues and goalkeeper distribution (they ignore short passing a lot of the time), I haven't seen that many ME issues, but I'm not the most perceptive.....

[kazm]

Hm im gonna try that with the wingback. Last goal against by an inside forward was actually on the side i'm playing a fullback.

My midfield atm: DLP-d (dmc spot) with shout: close down less, MCL: APL-s, MCR: MC-a working out decently so far, especially attacking.

[beverage1982]

When a game is in Beta, you inadvertently do end up exploiting things like this.

Last year had the spell in Beta where wide players were insanely overpowered and you almost couldn't fail to dominate out wide.

The important thing for everyone to remember is that while these issues persist in the Beta, many of them are on the radar to be fixed, so hopefully will be resolved by the time the full release is out. It's therefore also important not to have a hissy fit when any of these "exploits" are rightly sorted out!

To be honest, barring those issues and goalkeeper distribution (they ignore short passing a lot of the time), I haven't seen that many ME issues, but I'm not the most perceptive.....

Wholeheartedly agree. I wasn't complaining - nor will I be when it's fixed - was just being a little sceptical of my own success as I know it's probably not going to last and for very good reason - I'm just enjoying the feeling of a Villa clean sheet whilst it lasts.

Agree Goalkeeper distribution is a bit narked, I've also noticed an inability to get the ball past the halfway line when kicking long but that could just be down to Guzan's terrible distribution.

All in all I'm very much enjoying the BETA though, so nice to be able to quickly implement a tactic rather than juggling sliders like it's a complex equation.

[beverage1982]

Hm im gonna try that with the wingback. Last goal against by an inside forward was actually on the side i'm playing a fullback.

My midfield atm: DLP-d (dmc spot) with shout: close down less, MCL: APL-s, MCR: MC-a working out decently so far, especially attacking.

I'm no expert but the one thing I'd say about that trio is there isn't much defensive cover. The DLP does defend but also a creative force, whilst AP and CM(a) aren't defensively focussed either. Depends who you are of course as if you're a top team with good players i suspect that'd be fine, but you may consider going for a more traditional DM, or even an Anchorman to help those fullbacks out a little more.

[kazm]

I'm no expert but the one thing I'd say about that trio is there isn't much defensive cover. The DLP does defend but also a creative force, whilst AP and CM(a) aren't defensively focussed either. Depends who you are of course as if you're a top team with good players i suspect that'd be fine, but you may consider going for a more traditional DM, or even an Anchorman to help those fullbacks out a little more.

Yeah I'm gonna try that. I'm trying to use a counter tactic but so far that seems pretty useless compared to controll/standard. I'm one of the bottom 5 teams of my league btw.

[grasu]

I just finished my first match with beverage's modifications and the results are promising. I watched the match on extended highlights and all of the opposition chances came down the middle. My DM got his highest rating of the season 7.9 and the opposition wingers and FBs were in the lower 6s. The team was less attacking than in other games but I think I'll try and not tightly mark their wingers as I've noticed my own IFs are staying a bit low on the pitch (which should be expected, with all the tracking back).

On the other hand I was susceptible to a number of through passes, about 3 in total, which were very dangerous. I'll try to see if another LD(D) CD(X) pairing won't stop that and maybe have my DM close down less.

Early results are promising, I'll keep you updated.

EDIT: BTW, when you say "show them on the inside" I'm assuming you mean show Right footed players on their Left foot. Am I right?

[beverage1982]

EDIT: BTW, when you say "show them on the inside" I'm assuming you mean show Right footed players on their Left foot. Am I right?

Yeah just force them into the middle of the pitch.

I must admit I haven't had the through ball problem. I play counter too and find if anything I'm too deep at times. Keep an eye on it and maybe see where the through balls came from. You could always drop a little deeper or potentially close the player down who was responsible for the balls through.

[kazm]

Hm I play counter and its not the throughballs that hurt me it's the wingers cutting in and scoring and the central attacks just cutting through my defense like a knife through butter. A hot and sharp knife. My defense is just doing nothing, but then again like the rest of my team they are horrible. Next season we are going full-pro, finally might be able to get decent players.

I'm doing things that were at least moderately successful in FM13 but that game quite opposite to FM14 in the sense that imo defending was too easy.

[Marshdweller]

I'm finding these problems too. My opponents waltz through my Forest defence with ease, and I concede a lot from crosses too. My centre backs get high ratings, but also are the only players I've been told are getting jaded(!).

I also find that Half Back doesn't offer as much protection in midfield as I was hoping...