Really? [Morale problem]

[Ellisio]

No offence but I've never heard so much tosh in my entire life.

Some of the "explanations" from certain fanboys on here are absolutely hilarious. Talk about clutching at straws.

There's clear faults with the game as I and endless amounts of people have brought to the forums attention. I don't "buy" any of the crap that's been mentioned as possible reasons for whats happened.

Like Edgar said, the funniest one of all suggesting that hitting the woodwork being a tactical issue rather than a morale issue. Pure comedy.

[Ellisio]

Might Sir Alex just be a better manager than you?

I never have prolonged periods of bad form and I never struggle to keep morale reasonably high across the board. So, it must be something you are doing.

How can you compare Alex Ferguson to myself? Absolutely absurd.

It's not something I'M doing, it's clearly something a LOT of people are doing, or as I and others have said, is a clear flaw within the game.

[Ellisio]

Chances are that's more of a tactical issue than anything to do with team morale.

After Man City lost to Arsenal United were comfortably clear & had what appeared to be a fairly easy run to the title yet they still managed to miss out thanks to some lacklustre performances or poor decision making, their performance in the Derby certainly lacked confidence & swagger.

Had either Manchester clubs drop in form happened in FM there would have been cries of morale bug & I suppose the same could be said of what happened to Spurs' results after January.

United's dropping of points in the title race was complacency, not morale.

And the beating by City in the derby was a one off game, not something that has gone on for game after game after game as is the issue i'm referring to.

[Guest]

No offence but I've never heard so much tosh in my entire life.

Some of the "explanations" from certain fanboys on here are absolutely hilarious. Talk about clutching at straws.

There's clear faults with the game as I and endless amounts of people have brought to the forums attention. I don't "buy" any of the crap that's been mentioned as possible reasons for whats happened.

Like Edgar said, the funniest one of all suggesting that hitting the woodwork being a tactical issue rather than a morale issue. Pure comedy.

Would you care to explain & evidence how hitting the woodwork is predominantly a result of poor morale?

[Ellisio]

Would you care to explain & evidence how hitting the woodwork is predominantly a result of poor morale?

I'm not saying it is that, i'm saying (if you cared to pay attention to my previous posts) that there has been a link between poor morale and hitting the woodwork in my experience.

Would you care to explain how hitting the woodwork is a tactical issue?

[edgar555]

Hard to say without knowing your tactical approach which is why I said, chances are......

If you want a little more insight this thread might prove useful, although the initial subject matter focuses on scoring at the other end it does develop into a very good discussion on the pitfalls of overly attacking styles & related profligacy in front of goal.

No. No. No. Quite simply no. Hitting the woodwork is not a result of my tactics. In no way is this the case. Ever.

Please don't insult my intelligence Barside.

I've played FM long enough to know this, I've been around these forums long enough to know a reasonable argument as opposed to a ridiculous one. I've contributed to these forums particularly in GPTG and have demonstrated a clear understanding of the tactical side of this game.

I'm not suggesting that morale is the issue with hitting the woodwork either, but it is absolutely nothing to do with 'my tactics'.

You do yourself no favours with your blind defense of the game.

FM is a great product but is no way perfect and the more people see this, the more we can all help SI get it better.

For years I have stated the improvements needed on the player/team/press interaction and nothing has ever changed. I even beta tested one year and most of the improvements/problems raised with this were discarded as there were other more pressing issues. Allegedly.

My position on the morale/interaction model is that it needs to be completely overhauled.

[Guest]

I'm not saying it is that, i'm saying (if you cared to pay attention to my previous posts) that there has been a link between poor morale and hitting the woodwork in my experience.

Would you care to explain how hitting the woodwork is a tactical issue?

I've seen a number of screenshots where folk are complaining about lethal AI finishing & such like where the match stats show a high woodwork hit count because there are a higher than normal number of shots over the whole game, this is something I experienced a couple of version back before I realised that my style was too attacking, once I dialled back my attacking intent things balanced out.

No. No. No. Quite simply no. Hitting the woodwork is not a result of my tactics. In no way is this the case. Ever.

Please don't insult my intelligence Barside.

I've played FM long enough to know this, I've been around these forums long enough to know a reasonable argument as opposed to a ridiculous one. I've contributed to these forums particularly in GPTG and have demonstrated a clear understanding of the tactical side of this game.

I'm not suggesting that morale is the issue with hitting the woodwork either, but it is absolutely nothing to do with 'my tactics'.

You do yourself no favours with your blind defense of the game.

FM is a great product but is no way perfect and the more people see this, the more we can all help SI get it better.

For years I have stated the improvements needed on the player/team/press interaction and nothing has ever changed. I even beta tested one year and most of the improvements/problems raised with this were discarded as there were other more pressing issues. Allegedly.

My position on the morale/interaction model is that it needs to be completely overhauled.

Take a look at my activity in the bugs section to see how perfect I think this game is & if you're saying that your tactics have nothing to do with hitting the woodwork then surely you're as blind as you think I am.

[Cougar2010]

United's dropping of points in the title race was complacency, not morale.

And the beating by City in the derby was a one off game, not something that has gone on for game after game after game as is the issue i'm referring to.

Complacency & morale are linked.

The fact that some users can manage morale whilst others does not show there is a bug with the game it simply shows that some users are better at managing morale than others. I suspect if you looked deeper you would find the users that cope well are those that are older with real life experience of managing people while those that struggle are younger.

[Cougar2010]

No. No. No. Quite simply no. Hitting the woodwork is not a result of my tactics. In no way is this the case. Ever.

Personally I do think hitting the woodwork has got a link to tactics but not in the way you and Barside are discussing.

Its clear there are far more woodwork hits in FM than RL and reading between the lines I suspect its the FMs/MEs way of telling you a shot was really close but didn't go in. So from a tactical POV I take it as your tactics are working well but on the day morale/confidence/luck just didn't go your way.

[edgar555]

Personally I do think hitting the woodwork has got a link to tactics but not in the way you and Barside are discussing.

Its clear there are far more woodwork hits in FM than RL and reading between the lines I suspect its the FMs/MEs way of telling you a shot was really close but didn't go in. So from a tactical POV I take it as your tactics are working well but on the day morale/confidence/luck just didn't go your way.

This I can get on board with. It's not my tactics making me hit the woodwork, but the players morale & confidence play a part.

[Ellisio]

I've seen a number of screenshots where folk are complaining about lethal AI finishing & such like where the match stats show a high woodwork hit count because there are a higher than normal number of shots over the whole game, this is something I experienced a couple of version back before I realised that my style was too attacking, once I dialled back my attacking intent things balanced out.

Take a look at my activity in the bugs section to see how perfect I think this game is & if you're saying that your tactics have nothing to do with hitting the woodwork then surely you're as blind as you think I am.

Already tried this.

[edgar555]

I've seen a number of screenshots where folk are complaining about lethal AI finishing & such like where the match stats show a high woodwork hit count because there are a higher than normal number of shots over the whole game, this is something I experienced a couple of version back before I realised that my style was too attacking, once I dialled back my attacking intent things balanced out.

Take a look at my activity in the bugs section to see how perfect I think this game is & if you're saying that your tactics have nothing to do with hitting the woodwork then surely you're as blind as you think I am.

As Cougar points out my tactics do not mean I hit the woodwork more. Case closed.

[wwfan]

How can you compare Alex Ferguson to myself? Absolutely absurd.

Your words. How am I supposed to read that as anything other than a direct comparison?

My issue is that morale is far far too sensitive. Every single season we go on a mega run of games unbeaten, usually all wins, morale is through the roof. We then either lose a game or draw a game and suddenly morale is lowest of the low. I do NOT give the hairdryer treatment and basically never tell the team I expect them to win unless we are evens favourites and even then I say it calmy. What's wrong with that? It's perfectly understandable.

A modern say example is Sir Alex at United. Everyone knows his management style yet when have we seen United in the past 10-15 years ever have a shocking set of results over a prolongued period? When have we ever seen United's players playing without any form of confidence and swagger?

You seem to be saying that as Sir Alex can keep his team in good form so consistently over the years, then you should be able to as well. All I've suggested that if your virtual self was as good as manager as Sir Alex, you'd be able to. As you can't, then the comparison and example are meaningless. You should have chosen a manager whose teams have a reputation for streaky form. Perhaps David Moyes or Harry Redknapp.

It's not something I'M doing, it's clearly something a LOT of people are doing, or as I and others have said, is a clear flaw within the game.

However, if it is not happening to everybody, and it is not, then there must be a solution. Your opening paragraph above gives me lots of clues as to why you are struggling. You are obviously not demanding enough and only try to take the pressure off. At times, the hairdryer treatment or ramping up expectations is necessary. If you learn to read your squad and when a more aggressive / assertive approach is required, you'll not have the morale problems.

I already find it pretty easy to keep morale better than average. Making morale easier to control would significantly reduce the challenge of the game for me and it would be far less enjoyable. It has to be possible to get man management completely wrong, or the module becomes pointless.

Personally I do think hitting the woodwork has got a link to tactics but not in the way you and Barside are discussing.

Its clear there are far more woodwork hits in FM than RL and reading between the lines I suspect its the FMs/MEs way of telling you a shot was really close but didn't go in. So from a tactical POV I take it as your tactics are working well but on the day morale/confidence/luck just didn't go your way.

Hitting the woodwork is merely a miss. Don't treat it any other way.

The ME produces more woodwork shots than real life, so, whoever you are, you can expect to hit it slightly more often than any real life team would, even Liverpool. If your players are short of confidence when shooting, they are more likely to miss, including missing through hitting the woodwork. If you play a tactic that, by default, generates a lot of shots, even when confidence isn't great, you'll see more shots hit the woodwork than might seem realistic. However, your continually high shot counts will also not be realistic.

PaulC has also suggested that players with the 'places shots' PPM might be more likely to hit the post, so if you have many of them your woodwork shots might be even higher. However, this is speculation, not proven fact.

Ultimately, high woodwork counts are a combination of an ME bug, tactics and morale issues. As with many GD debates, things are not as black and white as everybody seems to think.

[achilles-the-victorious]

The most satisfying part of building a squad for me is making sure everyone has a good personality, and knows their role. That alone has cut down morale issues drastically. No more whiners on the team. No more backups who were signed on big contracts, thinking its their time to start.

If your teams personality is Highly Professional then don't expect them to give you very many locker room problems at all.