Getting Behind the Opposition

[SnakeXe]

All innuendo aside

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to better threaten behind the opposition defence. At the moment I have a lot of very skillful, fast attacking players but we never ever seem to be able to get in behind the opposition (except when one of them goes on a wonder-run through the entire defence!)

I'm playing a Liverpool-style 4-2-3-1 with a flat back 4, two defensive midfielders, one of whom plays the Xabi Alonso distribution role, then 2 wingers and a central attacking midfielder, with one up front.

At the moment I have my 4 attacking players all set to run with the ball often, as they are all very comfortable on the ball and capable of taking men on, with forward runs normal for all, through passing rarely for the wingers and striker but normal for the central attacking midfielder (as he is my designated playmaker, and the one I want to be making the passes in behind the defence).

The central attacking midfielder also has a free role to negate the effects of an opposing DM attempting to mark him out of the game.

The Way I Think It Should Work:

When my distributive DM gets the ball, I want the central attacking midfielder to look for the ball (hence the free role). I want the wingers to stretch the opposition defence very wide to increase the space for my striker to make a run, so the team's width setting is high.

The playmaker attacking midfielder then has 3 options in behind a stretched opposing defence with which to play a killer pass.

What Actually Happens:

The playmaker doesn't look to make the pass soon enough, or receives the ball too deep so the ball has to travel a long distance to make the move work. The wingers don't make the run between the fullbacks and centrebacks as I'd like them to; they just go head to head with the fullbacks.

What To Try Next?:

I'm not sure about how to make sure the playmaker stays high enough up the pitch to be able to make the through pass more easily without getting rid of his free role. Would pushing the distributive DM up more aid this?

Any ideas how to make the wingers make a diagonal run inside? Putting a right-footed winger on the left makes him cut inside well, but he tends to run across the defence rather than diagonally through it.

The main reason I'm looking at this is to get a decent counter-attacking approach working against the better teams. At the moment my "Give the ball to the flair players and get them to leg it" approach destroys the weaker sides, and seems to be the best way to exploit the difference in ability between the defenders and attackers. However, against the better sides this approach fails as the defenders are more adept at shuttling my wingers into the corners, and crowding out my lone striker.

I figured the best way to play against these sides, therefore, is to take advantage of the fact that they will play higher up the pitch by playing in behind them. I suppose if I've got that fundamentally wrong then the rest of this is moot, but hey ho :o

[TPA]

How did you set your D-Line? If it's too deep then your DMC's may too far from your AMC when your team gets the ball. In that case try pushing your D-Line up a bit. If it's already high then maybe lowering Mentality of your AMC might help.

As for wingers, try lowering their Mentality. Should make them consider other options as well than just going forward.

Oh, and I'd remove Free Role from your AMC. But that's just my opinion because I've never got Free Role working properly. Of course, I don't know who your AMC is and maybe it works for him but every time I've tried that with my AMC he just goes missing. So nowadays he never has free role and is my best player rating wise. But I think that depends on the player really.

Just my 2 cents, hope this helps :-)

[J.W.]

well i would definately have your AMC with through balls "often" and passing range above "normal" so that he is always looking for that ball in behind the defence, and run with wall to "normal" so his priority is to play a through ball

[SnakeXe]

How did you set your D-Line? If it's too deep then your DMC's may too far from your AMC when your team gets the ball. In that case try pushing your D-Line up a bit. If it's already high then maybe lowering Mentality of your AMC might help.

As for wingers, try lowering their Mentality. Should make them consider other options as well than just going forward.

Oh, and I'd remove Free Role from your AMC. But that's just my opinion because I've never got Free Role working properly. Of course, I don't know who your AMC is and maybe it works for him but every time I've tried that with my AMC he just goes missing. So nowadays he never has free role and is my best player rating wise. But I think that depends on the player really.

Just my 2 cents, hope this helps :-)

My d-line is normal at the moment as both my centre-backs are fairly slow. They do have great positioning though, so it could still work with a high line. I'll give that a go and see if it shunts the defensive 6 forward a bit.

My AMC is my best player ratings-wise at the moment, so I think the free-role works for him

Interestingly, my backup AMC is my second best player ratings-wise, hehe.

well i would definately have your AMC with through balls "often" and passing range above "normal" so that he is always looking for that ball in behind the defence, and run with wall to "normal" so his priority is to play a through ball

The thing is I'd like him to make slide-rule through passes rather than hoof them, as I prefer the style of football, so I'd like to keep the passing as short as possible. I agree he's got to swap around the through balls and run with ball settings as you said though.

The other option I just thought of is to allow my distributive DM to make the through passes, and have my AMC running from deep, thus making it like a 4-4-2 with advanced wingers and a withdrawn striker. What do you guys think?

[Dekker2]

Give your wingers Free roles - this will get them coming inside the FB more often, to receive the kind of through balls you're aiming for. You might want to consider giving them Forward Runs often also.

Give your AMC very direct passing. Direct passing doesn't put a bottom limit on his passing, but just raises the vague top limit for attempting through balls etc. - this will allow him to try through balls from farther out, whilst the oppo D-line is still pushed up. They'll still often be slide-rule passes - the Veron-type long-distance ones that are most deadly. If you haven't given him a good amount of CF then he won't try these though, so make sure that it's on "much" (15).

I have my MC as a playmaker, with passing 19 and he never, I mean never, hoofs the ball away - he plays it short most of the time, also threads some fantastic through balls, but never just hoofs it at my striker (sadly, my CBs, who have short passing, are fond of doing this)

I would reconsider the width that you have given your team. The ST can get very isolated if the AMs are drawn out wide. Plus, the AML/R may act too much like a pure winger if you play wide - when you're looking for someone to cut in.

Take off TTB rarely from your AMs - it will ruin a lot of play for you. Just leave it on normal and play will be far more natural. Often they have a better opportunity to release your ST than your AMC does - don't negate that option, even if you don't want to over-encourage it.

Take off RWB often from your AMR/L. If you give them a good amount of creative freedom, then they'll still run with it when it's a good option (they don't have a pass available, or the FB is caught out of position) but they won't just charge at their full back every time - with only one ST, I presume you don't want them heading to the byline every time.

It might be worth giving your AMs the "Hold up ball" instruction. If they sit on the ball and draw the defence towards them, then when they knock it to the AMC he often has a gap available to exploit. Similarly, if he holds it up in the AMC position, often one of the CBs (since only one can mark the ST) will come forward to close him down - and that leaves a perfect gap for either the winger running inwards, or the ST breaking quickly off his marker. Against teams with a DM, however, holding up at AMC can prove ruinous.

Oh, and set your AMC as playmaker, if you haven't already.

And I find that the best PPMs for a playmaker are "plays short, simple passes" and "tries killer balls often" - in combo, they make your team flow like Barca.

Unfortunately, getting a good passer to learn "plays short, simple passes" is nigh on impossible, but teaching them the latter isn't an issue usually - and it can be very useful.

Get your wingers to learn "gets into opposition area" and they will be far better at receiving through balls between the full back and centre back.

[SnakeXe]

Give your wingers Free roles - this will get them coming inside the FB more often, to receive the kind of through balls you're aiming for. You might want to consider giving them Forward Runs often also.

In that case should I lose the free role on the AMC?

Give your AMC very direct passing. Direct passing doesn't put a bottom limit on his passing, but just raises the vague top limit for attempting through balls etc. - this will allow him to try through balls from farther out, whilst the oppo D-line is still pushed up. They'll still often be slide-rule passes - the Veron-type long-distance ones that are most deadly. If you haven't given him a good amount of CF then he won't try these though, so make sure that it's on "much" (15).

Yeah he has very high CF already. I like having the whole team on the same passing style, as I find it's much more flexible, and more effective than graded passing (as in TT&F), but I guess trying one player on different settings couldn't hurt

I have my MC as a playmaker, with passing 19 and he never, I mean never, hoofs the ball away - he plays it short most of the time, also threads some fantastic through balls, but never just hoofs it at my striker (sadly, my CBs, who have short passing, are fond of doing this)

That's what I'd like to see! Nothing frustrates me more than my CBs or DMs hoofing it forward to my band of midgets up front, hehe

I would reconsider the width that you have given your team. The ST can get very isolated if the AMs are drawn out wide. Plus, the AML/R may act too much like a pure winger if you play wide - when you're looking for someone to cut in.

Ah okay, I didn't think of it that way. Won't this reduce the space and allow the opposition defence to contract tighter?

Take off TTB rarely from your AMs - it will ruin a lot of play for you. Just leave it on normal and play will be far more natural. Often they have a better opportunity to release your ST than your AMC does - don't negate that option, even if you don't want to over-encourage it.

Okay will do

Take off RWB often from your AMR/L. If you give them a good amount of creative freedom, then they'll still run with it when it's a good option (they don't have a pass available, or the FB is caught out of position) but they won't just charge at their full back every time - with only one ST, I presume you don't want them heading to the byline every time.

Seems kind of counter-intuitive when my AMR/L are so good on the ball, but I'll see how it works out

It might be worth giving your AMs the "Hold up ball" instruction. If they sit on the ball and draw the defence towards them, then when they knock it to the AMC he often has a gap available to exploit. Similarly, if he holds it up in the AMC position, often one of the CBs (since only one can mark the ST) will come forward to close him down - and that leaves a perfect gap for either the winger running inwards, or the ST breaking quickly off his marker. Against teams with a DM, however, holding up at AMC can prove ruinous.

I never really experimented with the hold up ball instructions, so certainly some food for thought there, thanks

Oh, and set your AMC as playmaker, if you haven't already.

Done already

And I find that the best PPMs for a playmaker are "plays short, simple passes" and "tries killer balls often" - in combo, they make your team flow like Barca.

Unfortunately, getting a good passer to learn "plays short, simple passes" is nigh on impossible, but teaching them the latter isn't an issue usually - and it can be very useful.

My AMC already has Tries Killer Balls (also Runs With Ball Through Centre, Shoots From Distance, and Places Shots) - I'll try getting the short simple passes PPM on there, but I usually find the World-Class players don't listen to me

Get your wingers to learn "gets into opposition area" and they will be far better at receiving through balls between the full back and centre back.

My right winger already has this, but my left only has "Gets Forward Whenever Possible"

Thanks for all the advice

[SnakeXe]

I bow to thee, Sir Dekker!

Both second and third goals from through balls from the AMC (Kaka), one for Rossi, the other a diagonal run from the right from Ronaldo

Glad to find my original premise was correct! Thanks for helping me implement guys

[isuckatfm]

I bow to thee, Sir Dekker!

Both second and third goals from through balls from the AMC (Kaka), one for Rossi, the other a diagonal run from the right from Ronaldo

Glad to find my original premise was correct! Thanks for helping me implement guys

Being the ME geek that I am, can I see the pkm of that match?

[SnakeXe]

Being the ME geek that I am, can I see the pkm of that match?

Certainly!

Just watched it back and the first through ball was from Ronaldo, but he was in Kaka's position so meh

Here it is

[SnakeXe]

Works like a dream

[Dezooner]

ar u think share ur tactic?

and nice skin name of?

[SnakeXe]

The skin is Steklo

As for the tactic, it really is nothing special. I have world class players in most positions so it is bound to be at least decent

If you would still like it then I'd be happy to upload it

[balaban]

For the ones here who commented your DCs who are on short passing hoof the ball: that's because the passing you set is the "upper limit" (as someone above said) for their passing. They can't find a passing option short enough to fit in their "short passing" instructions so they panic and hoof the ball clear.....and your strikers happen to chase it. It's not supposed to be a pass

[SnakeXe]

For the ones here who commented your DCs who are on short passing hoof the ball: that's because the passing you set is the "upper limit" (as someone above said) for their passing. They can't find a passing option short enough to fit in their "short passing" instructions so they panic and hoof the ball clear.....and your strikers happen to chase it. It's not supposed to be a pass

Then why don't they just knock it square until one of the DMs drops deep to collect?

[Dezooner]

thx for reply

im makin tactic collection ; )

[ObaMartins09]

Then why don't they just knock it square until one of the DMs drops deep to collect?

Would probably depend on their Mentality and/or Creative Freedom. If it's low then they will play safe, i.e. play it long, if they have a bit more of a free reign then they'll take more risks. Generally if playing against a high pressing team, a defender playing the ball across the backline is considered a risk on all accounts.

[isuckatfm]

Certainly!

Just watched it back and the first through ball was from Ronaldo, but he was in Kaka's position so meh

Here it is

Very nice. The Ronaldinho chance just before the second goal would have been great if it wasn't for one of my bugbears with the game, the weight of Kaka's pass whereby Ronaldinho has to almost stop to wait for the ball and then Ronaldinho not just stroking it into the net first time.

[Dekker2]

Works like a dream

Glad to see you're on top of things now.

For the ones here who commented your DCs who are on short passing hoof the ball: that's because the passing you set is the "upper limit" (as someone above said) for their passing. They can't find a passing option short enough to fit in their "short passing" instructions so they panic and hoof the ball clear.....and your strikers happen to chase it. It's not supposed to be a pass

Yeah, it's just annoying because my DM is ALWAYS free for a pass, but I have a couple of low-composure CB who panic and hoof it if there's a striker within twenty yards.

My other CBs are fine in this regard, but I rotate a lot and when these two end up together, they ruin my build-up play. Fortunately my ST is good in the air, so I quite often retain possession anyway.

[SnakeXe]

Very nice. The Ronaldinho chance just before the second goal would have been great if it wasn't for one of my bugbears with the game, the weight of Kaka's pass whereby Ronaldinho has to almost stop to wait for the ball and then Ronaldinho not just stroking it into the net first time.

Yeah that was a lovely chance. Good thing Thiago Silva converted the resulting corner