[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

On 01/05/2020 at 00:23, adlyd90 said:

The report just told me that they had these two playmakers

Edit: So I have edited the post here to add some about the marking I have used at Oxford climbing up to the PL.
This was discovered first by @Cadoni @RDF Tactics and me, so credit is always shared.
I started using it in the whole league 1 campaign, and also in the championship. The results were great, as the AI mostly had below 10-7 shots total and could not create much. There are probably many ways to do this, this is mine.

I use a tactic with 2 AMcs, Fire and Water4321 p 103, by @knap, and I mark the link between the midfield and the defense.
Normally it is the DLP who is lowest in their midfield, a DMC or a CM who is a bit lower in the set up.

The thinking is to stop the AI from playing out from the back by using the closest AMC for marking their lowest midfielder, be it a DMC or a MC who drops deep, depending on their formation.
We are in this tactic pressing hard with 2 amcs and a striker, so the more stress the better.
If we make the DLP loose tha ball, great! Maybe he will get stressed an play a poor pass, or maybe he will not get the ball at all.
Maybe he will get it but sees no other option that to play it back to the DC who is then being pressured again.
This can be used against small teams an big teams, but be aware that City might have Rodri, KdB and B. Silva, who are really all playmakers.
But you do not face many teams like that.

Edit 2: 11 may update, we have now started using another fire and water23212p104 for MM, one with 2 PFs and one AMC.
Here we use the left pressing forward to mark the  DMC, or if none, MC who drops down to get the ball from the defence.
It works even better, and their entire attack is shut down.

So how do you find out who to mark?


The opposition report and the analyst report tells you so much info.


The first page under OI report tells you that when bruno and  pogba is playing together it is Pogba who is Dlp and lowest. You can see that on the picture.



The second page shows you different things for the last three games. They might have used different roles and players, so look for the one that fits today.
There is also the passing network who shows you who all pass to most, and is in the middle of it.



Then if you check the "team selection" of AI, it here shows the last game. On that picture you see Fred playing, and as a dlp lower than Pogba.


 

For some games you can also use the positional heat map, found next to the passing network.

You then know some things.
Bruno and Pogba then Pogba is lowest. Pogba and Fred, Fred is lowest and Dlp.

Then go to marking, and see who is playing. Here it is Pogba and Bruno.



For me it is obvious to try and take the lowest mc, in this case Pogba out of the game by using your closest AMC or PF if using 2 striker tactic.
This player will be bizzy with this, so use your "least important one" and shift sides if neccesary.

You can check if it is working by checking key passes, "touches" and posession in the report after the game. It's there if you look.

If you are still not sure, check their roles and their key passes in games before.
Some formations are harder than others, and I would encourage you to try it out before asking a question .Learn by doing!

Good luck!

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

Just now, adlyd90 said:

I played against Wolves and they had two playmaker
Saiss - dlp
Neves - ap
And in your opinion I would marking Saiss?

The analyst report will tell you this.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

10 minutes ago, solounamigo said:

Nearly every formation uses DM, CM or something like that. For example if they are playing with an standard 442 formation, then I'm looking at the both CMs (the deeper one will be marked).

If they've got the exact same positions, them I'm looking at their assists and other stats - the one with more assists would be marked.

But I think @Rober82 or @knap are able to tell you a lot of more "correct" information for that topic

You are spot on. I would also look at key passes. Glad it is working for you!

The Idea is to cut of the supply from the back or slow it. Either you win the ball, you make him give it away. Or he passes it back to the Defenders.
Around this area we have 2 AMcs and a striker gegenpressing.
This is why we pick the lowest one who is DLP. It's like taking Pirlo out of the game.

They will then need to change or find another way forward, maybe hot long balls.
 

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

18 minutes ago, RedDevil28 said:

in relation to training, lets say we follow the training schedules suggested by RDF and Rober ( great work btw!!!) - there is no info regarding pre-season schedules and how to mix it up with the individual training for optimal results during pre season. what do you suggest?

I use the 0 games one. We will be making pre season schedules at one pint, but there are like 10 other things we need to do before that.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

24 minutes ago, radetzky said:

for sure Marco Antonio

 

Then I would man mark him. But 3 like that with a amc in front is hard. Might try as Knap suggested with OI above

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 minute ago, radetzky said:

I can mark Marco Antonio but Almada behind my CM is Always an issue.

Which player of the back DMC 3 has most possession when you check their last games? Who creates most chances?

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

13 minutes ago, solounamigo said:

I'm not quite sure with that man marking, because there are some situation, in which I don't know what to do:

- if they play with to DM -> exactly the same role / position. What should we do then? Mark them both with our two AM?

- should we use left AM for the right DM and the other way round, or doesn't it make any difference?

- Two DMs pick the on whose best in the role.. The one you think will control play. If MU start with Fred and McTominay, check passing vision and Dlp abilities. It has to bed Fred.
The role can give it away. Use the analysis tab on match day!

-Yes!   The one you use will be bizzy marking, so dont use the one who creates/scores most.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

28 minutes ago, knap said:

think Rober uses OIs on AI CM at times, and this may be an occasion to use an OI to prevent the AI winning the midfield battle.

Hello lads. @radetzky @knap

I man mark the AI lowest dlp when I fear he will control the game, usually he is a dmc. This gives the AI some problems with getting out from the back. When it works they end up with 7 shots or less. Use the least effective AM for it. Tested with Fire And Water.


Example: Ben Pearson at Preston usually controls the games, I marked him with my least good amc and he got only 21 touches before getting subbed in the 60th minute.
I could have used a better example also, cause here they actually had 13shots which is over normal.

You do have some problems with Man City f ex who has Rhodri, Silva and KdB in a midfield 3. So that only works sometimes.

[[FM20][FM21][FM22][FM23] Calcio]

31 minutes ago, RVP32 said:

Hoping to get a bit more out of Kluivert soon, as he has only had 1 goal and 0 assists out of 7 games yet and his general play annoys me somewhat. (But I'm counting on improvements when the team gets a bit more cohesive with each other.)

Train him on double intensity for final third. His decisions and composure will go up, and he needs that.


This is mine after 2 years of this specific training.

[[FM20][FM21][FM22][FM23] Calcio]

1 minute ago, Weston said:

1 hour ago, quee said:

 

I can try to dig up what I used to play Serie D on FM19 but if someone in here can already attest to a solid, working database for FM20 I'd go with that one anyway.

There are quite a few on Steam, so not quite sure which one to pick.

[[FM20][FM21][FM22][FM23] Calcio]

6 minutes ago, quee said:

I thought it was a Zeman's team! I actually didn't realised Foggia is in Serie D now! They were in Serie B last season, right?

When you said score more than concede, that's a clue for a classic Zeman's team!

Zeman was of course Parma's coach in 1987 in Serie B - but only for 7 games before getting fired! Ah, would have been interesting!

I believe it is a new project, again, and therefor has to start in Serie D. Seems this happens a lot in Italy.

I believe Zeman took the team straight up 3 years, then almost to Europe.. A few losses at the end made them 9th.

Hard to follow But I will try my best if I can get the database.

I am currently managing Oxford, soon in the PL. But all I can think of is Foggia.
Actually feels like I'm cheating on my girlfriend...

[[FM20][FM21][FM22][FM23] Calcio]

Just now, quee said:

30+ players now! @Rober82 at #14 will hopefully reveal his Serie D team soon

Why, The Foggia dei miracoli, of course. Foggia of miracles.
 Or Zemanlandia.

Signori, Rambaudi and Baiano up front. Shalimoc, Kolyvanov and Dan Petrecsu.

Only AC Milan scored more goals, Foggia scored 58.

However they also conceded 58, so will have to try to improve one that.

[[FM20][FM21][FM22][FM23] Calcio]

So guys I might need your help here.

I have as they summary said been playing with Brescia, and Lecce. However these was just one season tests for Knap and his tactics.
I also had test-seasons with Atalanta, and Torino. On a quick note: Ilicic played as an AMC att is rpobably the best on the game. He scored 28(!) goals!
Now I feel like playing my own game, and that includes a long save.

First two concessions, I'm Norwegian,  a supporter of the once mighty Rosenborg.
I am also so old that I played CM Italia as the first game as a kid. So that feels like a hundred years lol.
This quarantine has given me some time to play a lot more. Some fix the garden, my hobby is FM.

The first football I watched was Italian, and I liked Ac Milan at that time. But not really the best players like Gullit, somehow I liked the Italians better.
Especially the underdogs. So my favs were Danielle Massaro coming of the bench at the end of his career, always scoring. And Lentini, who I today am sure would have been the world's best player if not for that car accident! And don't even try to tell me otherwise!!! There were others off course.
I can't fanthom that there is any way not love Boban, and Savicevic.

But as I liked an underdog and still do, there was another team catching my eyes as a, playing the most amazing football I have ever seen.
Of course, you do remember that things were better and bigger as a kid, like with Lentini.. Maybe.

That team were so attacking, that I could never quite forget it.
So guys, is there anyway I could get Serie D, and perform another Miracle?

I promise to try to score more than I concede..

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 minute ago, Adam Sutton said:

LOL York CITY of course

Well Of course, I'm Oxford and that result obviously did not happen and is a fake

 

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 minute ago, jonnysnipe said:

Rotation - if you can rotate a team (with equally as good players) you get the results. 

Yeah, swapping Rashford Lautaro and Greenwood with Haaland Werner and Dybala helps

But also swap the positions if they are the same. Rash started on the right and Lautaro on the left striker, swap them next game.
The AI looks at what you did last game and prepares for it. If it wasnt for tactical familarity, we could probably swap between two tactics every other game..

But make small changes from game to game. @knaps advice. Whipped crosses, low crosses. And so on.

 

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 hour ago, jonnysnipe said:

I still wonder on this one - only Rober seems to get this level of results - I understand his team is good but still.

Actually I think someone had even better results, 176 goals scored.

As for this it was a test, it's not me playing the game. This was about scoring as many as possible, and all credit is to knaps tactic.
The result don't matter for me, it's about finding things in the ME that can be used further.
I have plenty of bad tests also, but I don't post those, who want's a tactic that doesn't work?  
I also use two teams that I rotate, as I like to think this keeps the opponent unprepared for what to face.
Setting up a save takes me many hours before I press continue the first time, so it takes a lot of time. It's not plug and play, even for testing.

This worked insanely well, and two days later it did not anymore. Still is a great tactic for elite teams though, but you can struggle away, or against top teams because of the space behind the wing backs. I think Liverpool beat me 6-0 in another game, and even the run above had three more loses in Europe.

 

[FM20 Tactics by TFF]

18 minutes ago, Lisa565658 said:

Dude, why you should be respected. I'd rather say your whole gang why you should be respected. For tea for one. Which was copied from my stilekiller v-1. Or for this training schedule.

I think it's good to respect people, and tbh most of knaps tactics are from 2016 and developed further from that, and some years one work with some changes, and some others do. That's why they have the same names.
Tea for one, or oxford as we call them was first made in 2008, so I don't think you will get very far saying you made it first or anything like that. The thread is still on this forum if you search.

As for this I suggest we all take a step back and leave it, but I do feel that it was unnecessary to discredit what RDF is doing. He never asked to be judged in this thread, and I believe this is not the first time. That's someone else's job to be on top of.

[FM20 Tactics by TFF]

5 hours ago, Totalfootballfan said:

The training rating below I got in my test when I used "Normal Intensity" and didn't used any "Additional Focus" at all so there are many factors that affect the training ratings and the "Training Intensity" and "Additional Focus" aren't the key ones

You know you set 20 for professionalism and ambition right?
 They are all basically Roy Keane, so this is why your training rating is like that. It can't be compared with making different personality players get high ratings.

Man, I don't even know where to start.

1. No one ever said anything about this training method being about increasing CA.
That was never the idea, we don't know if it does maybe a bit better with the yearly increase, maybe not.
Not enough data.
So I have no idea why you are even talking about that.

2. Even if was about that, your test again proves nothing, as you have missed a key
aspect of what RFD does. I also don't think holidaying a season will give the same focus to development as
RDF has, he spends a lot of time praising training, selecting players for the games based on fitness and rest
so they get maximum training and stay above the treshold for double intensity.
If they fall below 90/80/70 they just train normal or even half, so you can miss many days of double. I don't think the assistant watches that. They need to play games, but not so much that it prevents them from training.

3. This is about where the ability gain of one player is located. Most of the players in FM are incomplete in one manner or the other, missing pace, is a great defender but can't pass, or is the perfect striker but has 10 composure so he misses every time he is under pressure. This separates ok players from really good ones, and bad players from ok players. What would Pippo Inzaghi be like if he had 10 composure? Probably a normal player in Italy, not very known.
Almada is a good player many buy on this years game, but his decisions at 10 makes him not so good as he can be.
He is young, so this will improve. Maybe it has increased to 13 in 3-4 years, maybe it takes even longer.
In that time he is not as effective or good as he could have been.
With final third training, match practice, and rest I added those +3 in a year. His composure also went up from 13 to 16, making him as calm in front of goal as Luka Jovic.
Now shooting is being trained, and then he will look complete with still 25-30 abb points to go.
Off course I could have trained him as AMC attack role, which we used to. This would also have added focus to his 10 decisions, but it also has 12 other focus areas, many of which he already has 14 or 15. I don't want to prioritize making a 15 into a 16.
If he gets +6 ability points this season, divided by 13 areas, it is less than half a point for all these if spread evenly.
That wont even show. If you don't see the value of putting it in the place that is needed, then I just don't know. I think it's rude to discredit other peoples findings on this forum, whoever they may be.
You are the one making all these filters, where the left AMC needs to have 15 here and there. Well, with this a lot more players will be trained and then fit your filters. Congratulations!

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

28 minutes ago, Tyler1863 said:

Hi what's the link to the discord? So I can see what this training Craze is all about. Development looks crazy

For discord, pm me, @RDF Tactics, @Cadoni or @knap.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

2 minutes ago, tedesco said:

Why is usually (%95) goals with corner or foul set pieces ?

Tactic: Fire And Water

In my experience you will get 30% of each. Crossing goals, trough balls and SPs. In one game I had recently I lacked the SPs, so lasth half of the season I had a lot of them making it even. Another game was opposite, in the start was mostly SP winning the games for me, and I realized my front three was not working optimal and had not yet clicked.
Then in december they clicked and SPs stopped.

So my view is that SPs wont add 30 goals to your team when it performs, but will maybe replace them until they start. Or opposite, when tactic gets found out by Jose the AI.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 minute ago, Sanders81 said:

Laux

Philipp Laux, starts unemployed. German.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

1 minute ago, Sanders81 said:

did you make any changes ?

No.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

Added tactic to post.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

So this Norwich test got exciting. Excellent tactic this, probably the best I've tried so far.

3 games to go and about to face Liverpool they were sitting 3points beside me, and with one game in hand..



Ended like this, happy not to loose.. But now what? 3points ahead with one game more. Luckily I had 6 + goal difference.

Or at least i thought I had, then next round:



 M**********s! Suddenly they were equal with me, then they won their game out 2-0, so I thought that was that. They had +2.



I need them to loose, draw or I need to win by 3 more goals in the last game. No way thats gonna happen now.
They play Everton away, me Watford at home. Well, 2nd place is still good, I thought and pressent instant result for the last time:

I guess we can all conclude, this aint Liverpools year

FM20.4.1Fire_and_WaterVOL24321OXP103EC.fmf

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

I tried this with Norwich at christmas and its working great.  Now you can pinpoint what players are missing and get then more complete! Superb @RDF Tactics.