jorgvandervloed
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Posts posted by jorgvandervloed
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I dont think you're far far away from having a great tactic, but think you are a bit too cautious about your role selection.
With both a DM(D) and DLP (S) in midfield, your midfield feels kinda static. Doesn't mean they are not the right choice, but the runners then should come from somewhere else. This brings me to the fullbacks on support, who will only occasionally join the attack. Looking back at Pep's Barcelona, his fullbacks were way more attacking, while the midfield hold on to the ball.
Taking in mind that your right IF is on attack, i would change your right fullback to a WB (S) and the fullback on the right to a WB (A). To add a bit more variation in your attack, you could also look a changing the inside forward (s) to a winger (s).
Good Luck
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@DizzyNewHeights A control strategy already has increased closing down and higher defensive line, team instructions to further increase this. This means the whole team will have closing down almost maximum anyways, so the hard-coded PI ''close down more'' probably won't have as much affect anyways. Just as the PI ''close down less'' won't have as much of an affect either.
Very simple example; control has your team closing down at 7 out of 10. This is increased by team instructions to 8, but later decreased to 7 with the PI. Will he close down less? Yes, but 7 is still a high number so he will still close down most of the time.
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Certain roles have the PI ''hold position'' active, but what happens to these roles when you use the TI ''Roam from Position''?
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20 hours ago, herne79 said:
I don't want any screens? All are visible to me.
@guidwyer Don't post your email address on a public forum. Use a PM if you need to mention that.
It was more if you could advise if i'm allowed to use the screens!
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I can see the images just fine...
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At first glance, taking this topic in consideration, you're making the pitch too small and your players won't have enough space to move in. Besides that, I would say that using so many team-instructions it would be possession for the sake of it instead of really being dangerous with the ball.
- Very fluid shape; team is vertically very compact
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You push up the defensive line to be even more compact
- Probably the reason why your WB's are so dominant; they are the only ones that have space to move in and are available for a pass
- Lower tempo, shorter passing, work ball in the box, no dribbling, and play out of defence to keep possession might be a bit overkill
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Lets start off with that everything is possible in FM. So playing a possession tactic with a fluid shape is definitely an option.
To make the comparison easy i will only talk about very structured and very fluid as they are the limits on the left and right end spectrum. They affect the creative freedom and how far your players are vertically away/close to each other. With very structured allowing less creative freedom and your team being vertically less compact (read: more space between the lines) and very fluid obviously the other way around.
The reasons why Cleon chose very structured for his possession tactic were in my opinion:
- He wants his players to play simple football; by giving them less creative freedom they wont deviate from his instructions as much and do exactly as they are told. This way they follow instructions and keep things simple which helps with keeping possession. (Very Guardiola like)
- The team is vertically more stretched out; players are further apart which makes the pitch bigger for the opponent to cover. Therefore, they have more time on the ball because the opponents needs more time to cover the extra ground.
I would go as far as saying that the creative freedom in this tactic isn't with the players deviating from given instructions, but the ''creative movement'' the tactic creates by adding ''roam from position'' in the very structured framework. Adding the playmakers for an extra spark in the final third.
@Cleon I have a question as well; When you read about Pep Guardiola and more recently Thomas Tuchel from Dortmund. The term ''juego de posición'' comes back a lot, which translates in something like ''positional play''. They lure the opponent to one side of the field which leaves the players on the other side wide open in space. With the two playmakers on one side in this tactic, who will attract the ball more often, I can see this happening as well. Was this something you had in mind when you created this tactic? Or am I over-analyzing things now?
(haven't played this tactic to be honest)
Hope I explained things above correctly, if not, my apologies in advance. I know how keen you are on things being explained correctly and not spreading wrong information.
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Hi everyone,
Being bored and at work, seems to go hand in hand really. So I started thinking about my Crewe savegame I started last night and wandered around this forum for a bit until I found this thread. Being a huge fan of possesion orientated tactic I immediately started playing around with ideas in my head. As I'm at work for another couple hours I can't test anything myself so just wondering if someone could look at it and spot any obvious flaws. Also, as I'm Dutch and dont have the game running right now, I might translate things a bit different than they actually are ingame.
I'm planning on using a Control Mentality and a Very Structured system
Teaminstructions: play from the back, close down much more, be more expressive, retain possesion, lower tempo, and roam from position
My setup:
Goalkeeper (defend) with PI's roll it out, fewer riskier passes, and distribute to fullbacks
Wing back on the right (support)
Central defender (defend)
Central defender (defend)
Full back on the left (support)
All midfielders are in the midfield strata
Box to Box midfielder on the right (support) with Pi shoot less
Deep lying midfielder in the middle (defend) with pi close down less
Roaming playmaker on the left (support) with pi shoot less
Raumdeuter on the right (attack)
False 9 on top (support) with PI shoot less
Inside forward on the left (support) with PI shoot less
Any feedback or idea's are appreciated!
Thanks in advance
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Just tailor one of the none playmaking options, to get it as close as possible to the behaviour you expect. It should be easy enough to do if you use the CM role as I think that is the most customisable option you have in central midfield.
Thanks for the quick reply Cleon. I figured it would be possible to create something that acts very similar on the field. Do you agree with the PI's or do you think you need different ones?
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I'm trying to create a system without playmaker roles but the roaming playmaker role is great for in my setup so I was wondering if it's possible to create this role by using a central midfielder on support with the PI's roaming and dribble more active. Or do you need more PI's? Or is it simply not possible to recreate this role?
Don't like how other players try to pass the ball to the playmaker(s) while there might be a better option. Therefore my question.
Thanks in advance
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When you mentioned that you gave your wide players instructions I automatically figured you talked about your forward players but I guess you meant changing your fullback. Thanks for the response I'll have to play around a bit more to get this working
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Thanks Cleon.
You achieved this with the 4-5-1(4-2-3-1) you previously posted in this threat? I tried to create something similar but felt like my lone forward was too far ahead of everyone and usually dribbled until he lost the ball because he didn't really have any passing options. Or did you use PI's to alternate the roles so they support the lone striker more? Right now i feel like my tactic is defensively pretty sound but fails to create decent chances so thats why I was wondering:p Could be the quality of my players cause I like to start with lower league teams.
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Cleon,
I have been following this thread for a while now, great job on the development! I'm from the Netherlands, not a big Ajax fan to be honest:roll eyes:, but still I like the approach. Its something almost every club is starting to do, look a Feyenoord and PSV, we are such a little country and have no money to buy any quality players.
I have two questions:
- What skin are you using in FM? I love the information it gives you.
- I couldn't help to notice that Fischer scored a ton of goals as an Inside Forward. I opened a thread on here a couple days ago but didn't get a whole lot of help from people and then I saw that you're using a similar system, so here goes my question. Do you feel like the winger on the right gets more into scoring position than the inside winger? I have been trying to get my inside forward to be my topscorer but he's hardly involved at all with goals or assists. Fischer of course is a quality player, one of the better inside forwards in the game probably, so it might have something to do with that.
Once again, awesome thread:applause:, and thanks in advance for your reply
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(haven't played this tactic to be honest)
[FM20] Help with building a 4-2-3-1
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
To start off, I would swap the midfield roles. At least, put a defend duty role on the left to cover for the attacking WB. I would also look into changing Pogba to a BBM on the right. The less attacking RB will cover for him.
the most common issue with a 4-5-1 is that it’s a top heavy formation, which means you have a lot of bodies in front of the ball.
I would change the AM and W to support and keep the AF. This way their starting position is a little deeper, which will help with the movement.
Especially, because you also play on a pretty aggressive mentality. Changing the roles to support help them with covering in defense, but they still make enough runs.
my 2 cents