[Player Role Spreadsheet FM21 [UPDATE 1.5 RELEASED]]

Looks very nice mate, count me interested.

[An ode to Ozil (updated for FM21)]

Do you have a full list of PIs?

Would be keen to try the tactic out.

[Tactical Series - Juego de Posicion (FM20/FM21)]

3 hours ago, Kharza_FM said:

Definitely strong defensively too.. haven't conceded in 11 games in a row.

 

Here is my current 433 iteration that I'm pretty happy with

My main IW-A has 7 goals and 6 assists in 9 games

Main AP-A has 1 goal and 5 assists

Rotating 2 different strikers right now and one has 4 goals 2 assists in 9 games and the other has 3 goals 2 assists in 9 games

Are there any PIs for the defenders and wingers?

[Arteta Replication Attempt (Arsenal vs. Sheff Utd)]

On 05/10/2020 at 15:54, Experienced Defender said:

2nd half tactical switch - the 4-2-3-1

As the 523 wide proved fairly ineffective apart from dominating possession (largely for the sake of it), Arteta switched to the 4231, which allowed him to press the opposition more effectively higher up the pitch, but also to attack faster when an opportunity is on. That's exactly what his team needed in order to turn things around, and Arteta proved his tactical competence making the right decision that soon paid off. Of course, moving Auba to the center and bringing in Pepe for Nketiah was another example of good decision making on the manager's part. 

In short, here is how I think he set the tactic up in the 2nd half:

PFat

Wat             TQ             IWsu

DLPde   CAR

WBsu    CDco    BPDde   WBsu

SKde

Positional changes compared to the initial 523 setup:

- Aubameyand from AML to STC

- Willian from AMR to AMC

- Pepe from the bench to AMR 

- Saka from WBL to AML

Tweaks regarding instructions IMHO included:

- speeding up the tempo (from lower to higher)

- overlap on the left

- counter-pressing

Also notable was a frequent positional swap between Willian (AMC) with Saka (AML). Later on, when Arteta switched back to the 523 - basically aimed at defending the 2-0 lead - Willian moved to AML and would occasionally swap positions with Pepe (AMR).

So that was my take, now let's hear yours 

 

 

Good observation, and exactly my take on the match. I wouldn't be surprised if slowly we morph to this approach, with a Ceballos and Partey Double Pivot along with Willian in the 10.

Other option would be Partey as a single pivot with Ceballos and Willian ahead of him.

[Arteta Replication Attempt (Arsenal vs. Sheff Utd)]

I think when dissecting the current Arsenal tactic, the key si achieving the animation and interplay on the left side. You have to understand that our defensive shape is very much a 5-4-1 which changes to a 4-3-3 in build up. The left hand side was initially tricky to replicate as essentially the left sided centre back becomes a modern full back, and the wingback, drifts centrally to become the 3rd midfielder. 

Unfortunately, in FM it is not possible, to give centre backs in the wide positions instructions to get further forward, or run wide with the ball, so they will always be limited in how far the can maraud. The solution I found to this was, essentially playing a back four, with an IWB ahead of the left sided full back. In the build up from goal kicks, the WB and FB tended to be on top of each other, but immediately after the ball was played, the WB would drift in and the Fb stayed wide, creating the structure you see in Arteta's side. 

Now I created 2 versions, one with a more adventurous IWBs and one with a more cautious IWBd this would change depending on who was available to play in the IWB slot. If I went for AMN it was the defensive option, it if t was Saka the more adventurous. TO compensate for the chnage I also adjusted the CM roels slightly to providee the defensive cover as necessary.

Ahead on the Left Aubameyang is the primary attacking threat so he is an IFa. For the central striker I did go for a DLFa instead of a DLFs as the latter was congesting the centre too much. In real life this congestion was a problem with Nketiah in the 1st half of the game against Sheffield United. He was coming far too deep and taking up space in the 10 spot where Willian was operating. Arsenal played far better with Aubameyang up top stretching the opposition back line creating space for both sets of inverted wingers to create. The DLFa, in FM drops deep bu still has licence to operate higher providing space for the wingers.

Team Instructions are as per the screenshots PIs are below:

Goalkeeper

RB: Cross From Byline

LB: Sit Narrower, Run Wide With Ball, Cross from Byline

LWB: pass it shorter (kept on switching the play to the other side, and this wasn't necessarily their job)

LCM: More Direct Passes, Take More Risks

RCM: More Direct Passes, Take More Risks

RW: More Direct Passes, Take More Risks, Roam from Position, Sit Narrower (tried replicating APs, but still wanted him to be able to cross)

[Maximizing Martin Odegaard's potential - Wolverhampton Wanderers]

You could perhaps turn the DLPd into a DMd, but with PIs like Take More Risks/ More Direct passing so that he still can play more incisive passes. Also set distribution to a specific individual and make that individual your DMd. That way when building out from the back, the DM will be to whom the keeper will try to distribute. 

Your team in general will try to seek out Odegard more as he will now be the sole playmaker in the team.

[[FM20] Queen's Park weren't the only ones - The rise of the "Always Amateurs"]

Do you have the save file? I'd be keen to see how far I could take it?

[[FM20] Queen's Park weren't the only ones - The rise of the "Always Amateurs"]

Do you think you could take them to the Prem, or are they capped?

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

RESULTS POST

Took the plunge and bought FM20 so actually played through a whole season. Tried the tactic out with Leeds and played some of the best football I have seen. Very enjoyable.

Results Highlights

Championship: 1st (6 point gap)

FA Cup: Semi-Final

Carbao Cup: Semi-Final

Stats Highlights

Goals For: 1st (77 goals)

Goals Conceded: 1st (28 goals)

Best Average Possession: 1st (62% 25711passes completed 90% accuracy) - we had almost 5100 completed passes more than 2nd place

Best Shooting Accuracy: 2nd (51% with 369 shots on target)

Most Clean Sheets: Joint 1st (24 clean sheets)

Overall very happy will see how it fairs now in the Premier League

 

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

Right! After much tinkering I'm back and I think I may have cracked, he says with baited breath. 

TLDR: I changed some stuff and the tactic scores goals now and has a tight defense based on a high agressive press. Tested it with Arsenal. Don't know yet how it will fare with Underdogs or lower league players. 

Key Changes are Based on 3 things:

1. Team Mentality Change

2. TI Changes to temper mentality change and enhance pressing.

3. Role Changes

Team Mentality Change

One of the best threads I read was @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s Caixa Development Thread. There was a specific discussion to do with team mentality, and how it can affect a multitude of different things, but most notably the individual mentality of players. Now in FM 18 these could be boiled down to numbers, but in FM20 these are a spectrum of Individual Mentality labels, ranging from Defensive, Cautious, Balanced, Positive, Attacking and Very Attacking. 

The change I made from Balanced to Positive, was one motivated by trying to increase the urgency and forward passing of my players, and so that they would take more risk. Now the change affects a lot more than individual mentalities of the players, but to keep it simple that was all I was focussed on, I wanted to ensure that broadly speaking amongst there wasn't to great a disconnect between the individual mentalities of players. The Team mentality did this. My attacking players became more attacking, and my defensive players did too, but by not as much.

TI Changes

So to temper the increased individual attacking mentalities the two shouts I used were, Overlap on the Left, and Focus Playthrough the middle.

Overlap on the Left - Reduced mentality of raumdeuter by a notch, increased WBa mentality by a notch. Both are now Attacking, instead of being Very Attacking, and Positive respectively. Allowed the Raumdeuter not to get to high up the field and get isolated. Allowed WB to be closer and provide better support.

Focus Play through middle - mentalities of CDs, CDM, and MC, were increased by a notch from defensive and cautious, to cautious and balanced. Allowed my midfielders to play more forward passes rather than sideways.

Pressing changes - Here I went to extremely urgent pressing, a higher line and a much higher line of engagement. This was inspired by some of the plug and play tactics I have used in the passed. They seem to successfully implement a high press so I just copied what they were doing. It turns out it works pretty well and restricts opposition chances.

Higher Tempo - I got this idea from the tactics screen. It was a saying a negative aspect of my tactic was a low touches to scoring chance ratio. Effectively my players were taking a whole load of touches in the box with very few goals. The game was essentially confirming what I knew along. Cheers. What it did do though was offer a solution! What?! I could either try Shooting on Sight or Higher Tempo. I played with the former but found players having a go from anywhere which was not what I wanted. The Higher Tempo created a greater sense of urgency and to me it seemed like players too decisive actions (i.e shots and key passes) more quickly. 

Role Changes

AMCL  - Relatively simple here. I changed the APs to an AMs, but set to take more risks, and roam from position. The APs was attracting the ball too much for the sake of it. He was quite literally a magnet, and often play would be forced through him when often there was a better option. By making him an AMs he is just another cog in the machine, but at the same time he has the ability to play decisive passes with hims PIs.

ST - This for so long had me . I always had a DLFs thinking him dropping deep would create space for Raumdeuter on the left to run into. This did work but often the Raumdeuter was isolated. The DLF would often hold up the ball too much and not really make any sort of positive movement. This is where I noticed that the individual Mentality of a DLF, is Cautious, when combined with a Balanced Team Mentality, and only goes up to Balanced, when paired with a Positive Team Mentality. Take into account that the DLF also Holds Up the ball, and this explains why my striker was so passive. He was literally just a body to pop passes to. I rectified this with an Attacking Pressing Forward instructed to take more risks and dribble more. Combined with the Positive Team Mentality, he has a Very Attacking, individual mentality. This seems him getting forward and creating space, but still being involved in buildup, and of course contributing to the build up.

Tactic

Congratulations if you made it through that! Tactic is below. I have also attached it to this post if anyone wants to give it a go.

433 high press Arteta v5.fmf

[Importance of Balance Attribute in a Possession Tactic]

Where is the download? Keen to try it out  Found it!

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

Little update. Moved the APs to the middle rather than the left halfspace. Instructed him to 'roam from position' and 'move into channels' which gives him more freedom to pop up all over the pitch and offer an option in space as a spare man. In the AMCL slot he rigidly stuck to that position, but moving him to AM allows him to roam but still slot into the left half space in build up.

Biggest issue is consistency in front of goal. We are profligate in front of goal but very strong defensively, mainly because we hardly give away possession. I am seeing very nice interplay down the left flank, where we draw them to the centre with passes between the HB, DLP and AP, before unleashing the WB who then delivers a cross to the onrushing striker who hits it straight at the keeper.  

I have experimented with making the striker a DLF on attack, but then he is far too isolated and doesn't help out in defence. ANy ideas on what I can do to boost our threat/ ability to convert chances?

 

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

Alright so to steer this slightly back on track. I have experimented a bit and set up a new game with Arsenal. Better team, and harder league, but arguably have all the players of the system I have been trying to replicate.

So far so good. We really dominate games well and create a good number of chances and finish them. Still can be inconsistent, but I think with a full season and improvements in the squad this could be a settled tactic.

Things I'm particularly pleased with. 

DLPd - This guy is instructed to stay wider and close down more. In play he covers the wide flank whilst the attacking wing back goes up the pitch. He's not stationed very far wide, but wide enough that he can thwart counters, and with his inclination to take risks he can launch some good through balls or switch the ball to the other flank. I am thinking about putting him on a support duty, but with my left side so attacking with the WBa and the Raumdeuter, I think he will stay as is.

APs - I struggled a lot with this guy. Initially had him in the mcl slot, and tried all sorts of rolls. Had an attacking mezalla, attacking AP. Both dropped a little to deep in build up and were leaving my front 3 really isolated. On an attack duty he would often wander to far up the pitch, and also as a mezalla he would get in the way of my RW. He was running around too much and not really threading through any passes. Moved him to the AM strat and his positioning is far better, and with a support duty he still drops deep to help out but not too deep in the build up.

I've also dropped the teh mentality to Balanced. On attacking and even positive it was all just a bit rushed, and it was affecting far too many things for my liking. By stripping it back to balanced I had a bit more freedom to experiment with more aggressive roles. 

If anyone wants to try I have attached the tactic to this post.

That's all i've got for now. I know the balance of rolls is somewhat unconventional but its seems to be working.

433 high press arteta.fmf

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

But this tactic is very different from what I was suggesting back then + there is no RMD anymore. So you cannot say that you followed my suggestions: 

 

 

To clarify, I tried what you suggested, but wasn't having any luck, so I incorporated things which I was using before, and saw a bit more success, but still not quite where I want it.

Broadly speaking, the TIs haven't changed in any iteration, and neither have the PIs (More closing down on LW,RW,ST,CML, CMR) 

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

24 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Which changes have you exactly made? I have some ideas on potential tweaks, but I would first need to take a look at the tactic you are using at the moment.

Solely in terms of roles and duties - assuming you want to keep the RMD - this is an optional setup for you to consider:

F9/TQ

IWsu                             RMD

MEZat   DLPsu

HB

IWBsu   CDde  CDde  WBsu

SKsu

But I'll still need to see the whole tactic, because it's possible some instructions may need tweaking as well.

I have a couple of different variations, but the most successful, was this. I get high possession numbers 60%+. and I do get some CCs, but the majority of goals come from set pieces, or the 2nd phase ball after a set piece.

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

On 12/01/2020 at 17:16, Experienced Defender said:

If you want to play on the Attacking mentality, you may need to loosen your defensive TIs (DL and LOE) up a bit. I would drop both by 1 notch, so as to create more space in attack while also reducing the risk of being hit by balls over the top. The overall level of compactness remains unchanged.

If you want to use the RMD role, not only that you need to pay more attention to his flank defense-wise (because RMD is pretty much irresponsible defensively) but I fear he'll also need better support in attack in order to be utilized to full effect.

This is an example of what I would look to change in your setup on that score:

F9/DLFsu

IWsu                                    RMD

CAR/BWMsu RPM/MEZsu

HB

FBat   CDde  CDde   FBsu/IWBde*

SKsu

* If you have a player in DR position that is good/reliable enough, you might be able to proceed with a WB on support (as in your original tactic)

Now, let me explain the other tweaks I made above:

- by putting a highly creative and mobile role (RPM or MEZ on support) behind the RMD, he should get more direct and qualitatively better support

- by playing the striker in a role that looks to drop deep in the attacking build-up phase (F9 or DLF on support), you create more space for the RMD that he can take advantage of more effectively while still retaining the creative type of support than with a CF (who is inherently more attack-minded and higher-positioned than F9/DLF)

- with a FB on attack on the left flank, you now have a player that will naturally overlap the IW (AML) and deliver crosses for both the RMD and those supporting him

- the carrilero (or BWM on support) in MCL is meant to provide defensive cover for the attacking FB as well as help with recycling possession when needed

Hope this helps.

The lack of cutting edge is frustrating me. We dominate possession but don't finish. 

Made the changes you suggested, and the movement and balance is certainly better, but still don't seem to be getting anywhere which is a bit disheartening. 

 

[4-3-3 Positional Play - Arteta And Guardiola Inspired]

Hi guys I am trying to get my positional play based 4-3-3 to work, inspired by Guardiola, and more recently what Arteta is trying to achieve at Arsenal.

I have been trying to perfect the system with Leeds, and whilst at sometimes we dominate matches and create a lot of clear chances, we suffer from not converting these into goals, and also not being consistent enough. This may be a limitation imposed by the players I have, but given Leeds superiority in the championship this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Expectations from players

GK - comfortable playing either long or short but not just hoofing it up the pitch. Should be looking for open players to bypass opposition press.

DCs - comfortable on the ball but ultimately keepin it simple

LB - Inverted wb tucks in to provide extra numbers

LW - Stays wider but with licence to cut in in the final third.

RB - Stays wide and overlaps

RW - sits narrower and acts as a striker

DM - I want him to screen the defense ultimately alongside the inverted wing back

MCL - I want him to be a playmaker who runs at defence looking to feed the the the front 3

MCR - I want this guy to be a bit of a water carrier they will have to cover the wide space vacated by the wing back.

ST - Can drop deep but also lead the line

TIs and Roles selected are shown in the screenshot. Only PIs are for the ST, LW, RW, MCR and MCL to Close Down More.

Any thoughts?

 

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

Hi guys whats the difference between a Defensive midfielder on defend and a half back. 

[Let´s talk Target Man.]

What mentality? Cautious?

[Let´s talk Target Man.]

Westy what does your system look like?

[4-4-2 - Modern (Control and Attack Space)]

I'd like to try this but I can't see the screenshot for the instructions

[Defensive advice fo r4-1-2-3-1 DM]

Thought I'd give a quick update. So I decided to change the roles as @Experienced Defendersuggested, but kept the pressing instructions as I had them initially. I decided keeping both counter press and more urgent pressing was putting more teams under pressure and giving me better results in more fixtures.

For bigger games where I was the underdog, and needed to be more solid, I went with the split block, and no counter press.

In the league we finished sixth again. Striker only got 10 goal sin the league, but I put that down more to Vardy's decreasing physical stats. Everton had a great season, and the midfielders contributed healthily. The big win was the champions league. Some great victories against Atleti, Real led me to the final against Milan. 

One problem I am getting is a large number of long shots from the inside forward. This is to be expected, but there are times where I wish they would instead play through the striker.

[Defensive advice fo r4-1-2-3-1 DM]

Mezallas contribute quite a few goals, bout 10 goals? Some of that may be down to the PIs of Tielemans and Maddison, but their contribution is quite strong.

I made those changes @Experienced Defender and definitely more solid especially taking away the urgent closing down instruction and implementing the split block. Also the overlapping effect of the attacking fullback is quite pleasing. I went with the carrierello instead of the DLPs and kept the DPLd in the CDM role. Right now I'm playing with LOE. I had a game against Liverpool in the cup where I dropped the high line to standard and dropped my LOE to draw them out. Kept a clean sheet and hit a late goal in the 85th minute. 

[Defensive advice fo r4-1-2-3-1 DM]

Once more thing, why shouldn't I keep counter press on all the time?

[Defensive advice fo r4-1-2-3-1 DM]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, the problem is that you cannot have everything at the same time. You always have to sacrifice in one area in order to gain in the other. In this particular case, it's more than obvious that you need to sacrifice a bit of your attacking "potency" in order to help stabilize the defense. 

 

Because that does not eliminate the core reason for your defensive issues (which I already explained in my previous post). 

 

That's the first change I would make, but certainly not the only one. One mezzala can remain, but the other should be changed into a more conservative role (which can in turn allow the fullback on that flank to be more attack-minded). Basically, these are two versions I would consider first: 

A) If you want to use a playmaker, then this could be a possible solution:

AF/PFat

IFsu                                IFat

DLPsu    MEZsu

A/HB/DMde

FBat     CD    BPD     FBsu

SKsu

B) Without a playmaker - carrilero instead of DLP. 

In terms of instructions, I would remove the extremely urgent pressing (leave it on default) and instead employ the split-block (with the front three + mezzala). Counter-press can be used occasionally/situationally, but not all the time. Higher DL and standard LOE is a good combo in general, although in your system (4123) you can experiment with different combinations (depending on the style you want to implement). Given that you seem to want primarily counter-attacking football, I would assume that higher LOE is not an option (hence either standard or lower). DL can remain higher or changed to standard (if you find you are too vulnerable to balls over the top). Prevent short GKD is not necessary btw.

In transition, I would remove the distribution to CBs, given that you already instructed the team to play out of defence (plus, you are using a SK, so you should give him more freedom).

Any questions?

Thanks for the above. I actually tried the IF (s) and Fb (a) combination, but kept the 2 Mez (s). I'll try dropping one of them and see how it affects things. One other thing, can you explain what you mean by split-block?