Djuicer
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Posts posted by Djuicer
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3 hours ago, craiigman said:
What’s the purpose of having “look for under lap” on wing backs where there is no one to under lap?
Im not @SixPointer but it does alter the mentality of the wide players.
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I'll do something new here soon. Started a brand new save with a team that holds a fellow countryman of mine. We will play possession football and it will be more extreme than before. Or that is the aim anyway.
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43 minutes ago, _mxrky said:
Can anyone explain the passing. Why does mixes passing make my side seem more dangerous going forward than shorter passing?
Various reasons might be the reason for that. Your team setup overall, with roles and other settings.
Players at hand, does a faster style fit them better?
Main reason is the increased directness, you will attack team faster with less time for op. to organize their defence. They will also pass with bigger risk, due to verticality increase. Instead of passing to the left or right and keeping the ball, players are more inclined to pass forward finding team mates in more attacking positions.
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ED answer is excellent, my only two cents to consider was to look over the GK distribution and the use of two playmakers. I would keep the one you can get closest to a Positive or balanced individual mentality for the possibility to create progressive possession football.
EDIT: Do you really need to take away the freedom of aiming the crosses for the wing-players? As that could be getting the sucess ratio of crosses down? Also making you easier to predict?
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13 minutes ago, rossenori said:
which DM role closes down the least?
Anchorman
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On 20/07/2020 at 15:08, 04texag said:
@Djuicer Love this thread. I have been playing using the original tweaked formation for most of my current season. We have been defensively strong, maintained possession and some really great movements with the ball and as a team. That said, we are just not scoring goals at all. 1 in 5 games we will score, but the rest are all slog matches, 0-0 for 75 minutes.
Did you ever encounter this? You have a much stronger squad than I do, but still wondering if you had any stretches like this and what you did to mix things up or get some more goals.
Almost never, but if I found it rough to score my first change was most often the LOE. Sometimes width too. Narrower or wider, both worked at diffrent times. Pending on opponents setup.
On 20/07/2020 at 21:35, FMSacchi said:Thanks for your reply 😁 if you were to use the final version of your 4123 what would you tweak to make it more attacking to chase a goal but without moving away from the style of play you've implemented too much?
Maybe trying to use true IFs down the wing? might ruin compactness though. Maybe move up to attacking? or make the fullbacks even more aggressive (attacking instead of support)
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21 hours ago, FMSacchi said:
@DjuicerBeen following this thread and I've been using both versions of the 4123 (Home & Away), Both have been working an absolute treat and winning me league titles and cups. What tweaks would you make to your base version of the 4123 if you were going total attack to chase a goal or would you rather use the 4231 or the 3142 instead?
I would say it depends on your team. The 3-1-4-2 has two striker, which often gets you goals. But if you have better wingers 4-1-2-3 might suit you better, or a great am who can dominate in 4-2-3-1. I liked the last version of 4-1-2-3 best overall. The style and results was good imo
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Not far from double the amount of chances created from the runner ups. Impressive.
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Looks good mate
Will be interesting to see how you recreate Hazard. That Lille team was so good and built in a very exciting and clever way, not far away (-results) from the team they have today.1 -
7 hours ago, KCHDD said:
Hi, would this set up be able to work using a DLF(s) instead of a F9? F9 has actually worked well for me but it could prevent me from using really good strikers to the max of their ability. DLF(s) is more common among better strikers in the game, say Haaland, at least thats what I've noticed.
I did not try it due to the diffrent approach, the F9 dribbles more while the dlf is instructed to hold the ball up. My thought was that it would slow the play down, but I did not try it so it might behave similar. The dlf is a great role and with a fitting player im sure it can work
edit Håland is fantastic, although I would prefer him cutting inside from the right, however then you probably need to change up a lot.
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4-4-1-1 is the defensive formation United uses at this point. In attack its diffrent.
Martial is lone striker, actually links play very good. CF or DLF is closest I think. He is mobile.
Behind him is Bruno, he is everywhere and the most risk taking player in the team. Roams.
then it is Greenwood down right, cuts inside a lot. On the left Rashford keeps the width much more.
CM is Pogba and Matic, Pogba connects the team and is involved in transitions more often than Matic who still does it, but not to the same extent.
In defence the right defender Awb overlaps a lot and Shaw is more inclined to underlap. Both central defenders are decent on the ball.
ddg is a regular keeper, not comfortable sweeping up Loose balls.
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23 minutes ago, nidhar.ram said:
Yep, Gimenez is okay as a BPD but I have seen too many mistakes costing us goals.
Felix is just not producing the goods. No chances created by him and more horizontal passes to his near by team mates. That is not good as I am expecting him to combine well with Costa
Its a risk-reward based style when you play possession based on outscoring the op. Its important to lure op deep to give you space further up the pitch. If you don't, there will be much harder to break them down.
Yeah, what is Costas PPM's?Felix might be better of cutting inside from a flank. But AMa should get him into good opportunities, both to create and score.
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For me, some of the players are played in wrong roles. Comes deep for example is in most cases best for creators, who needs to see a lot of the ball. Additionally you need players with play one-twos and maybe some with moves into channels, get further forward or gets into opposition area.
And whats up with the Mota hate? he is a really good DLF. Poulsen is a prospect but not close to Motas level (Imo).0 -
20 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said:
When I have the game open, I can post screens of my starters. I guess ST, AML, AMR and MCR?
That would be great.
Otherwise the tactic seems fine. Although I think the midfield could be more mobile? two out of three has hold position hard coded. That might inluence the attacking play negatively.0 -
I think its maybe a bit to conservative. Possession would be good, even if maybe pod or shorter passing wont hurt the estethic part. It will look more like a possession side.
Is the lack of pod a method to mitigate the lack of ball playing defenders?
roles: maybe dlp and wp will make you lack runners from deep? Why not remove the dlp for a regular cm on support? Play around with a wide playmaker only?
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38 minutes ago, Punt said:
And of course I`m talking about version with Pressing Forward ( att ).
Yeah, It was better IMO. The TRQ was in theory what I wanted. In the game, not so much
the pfa made the team so much more effective.
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47 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:
On which post is the download link?
Here:
if its not direct to the correct post it is PT7 in the op
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@Punt
Thank you, looking forward to see the action!
I def. Liked the 4-1-4-1 (FM's name) most of the diffrent ones in this thread.0 -
14 hours ago, who_is_it said:
Two other questions
1/ to press the defence line, we should use the opposition instructions ?
2/ when my assistant set instructions for players' opponent, should I set the rest as position instructions ?
You can do that, in theory the Higher LOE settings should help too.
I don’t understand the question.
If AM sets them he does. Otherways set them as you like them to be.
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Seems good!
two thoughts I have is
1 do you really need Higher tempo on attacking?
2 shorter passing seems counter productive?
standard tempo and passing would be very close to the two added TIs? As the slightly lower tempo on standard also shortsens the passing range.
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Final revision of the 3-1-4-2.
Yes, It have been a while, long time no see. I have been playing rather slow. Summer have arrived and the things that follows with that. Heat, ice-cream etc. TLDR; Playing time have dropped.
Results have been good, after som intial adjustments to the original tactic. The opening tactic had those TI's:
The reasoning for them was covered here. The new one are similar, the style stays roughly the same, just some details have been changed up.
This is how they look now, small but simple changes. Firstly I removed dribble less simply because we needed more players to take on their man, especially after the first season in which we finished second, the reputation increased and we are now facing more cautious opponents. This will help us break them down.
Secondly I decreased the LOE for more space when we regain the possession, thus we can attack with greater urgency. Also the pressing is increased to the highest setting, which hopefully will make us regain the ball faster, when we now start the pressing, together with the lowered LOE which will increase our defensive compactness. The pressing will now be deadly when it kicks in.
If we take a closer look to the roles not that much have changed. If I remeber correctly the regular CM have been changed to a box to box midfielder. Which will offer more mobility, due to the BBMs tendency to both join attacks and defend. This is a role I wanted Y1 with Atletico Madrid but there was no suitable player, now on the other hand it was quite a few options.
•Box to box midfielder
· Very Mobile
‣ Will join attack
‣ Also make defensive contribution.
· Flexible, but demands a lot of stamina, suits young players.
After that the DLF on support was changed to a Pressing forward on attack duty, to gain more penetration. The DLFs was good for our possession game but paired with the false nine we lacked runs in behind at times, this way we can threaten opponents with more variety.
•Pressing forward
· Puts the team first.
‣ Loyal, by the name you can figure that he presses, a lot.
‣ Stretches opposition, moves into channels.
· Spearheads the attacks, with possession he acts similar to an advanced forward.Lastly, I changed the covering defender to just defend like the other two.
This leads us to the league, which we WON!!
Key players was firstly Lemar, but only for 10 games, then he got a BAD injury and missed a lot of the remaining season. After Lemar got injured it really was Benjamin Sagnier, Antonio Carlos and Wilson who stepped up. Really impressive by Lemar to still get into the..
Team of the year, which overall was a good watch:
Mentality spread with the new roles.
VA-BAL
POS-VA-POS-POS
ATT
BAL-BAL-BAL
ATT
And some plays from the season:
Buildup around the left flank, move is also finished off from there.
This one comes from the other side, F9 passes the BBM who scores with a great finish.
Actually an overhit pass from the left WMs, still reaches one of our players who fires it home.
DLP-rWMs-MEZa.
EDIT: Attached .fmf1 -
22 hours ago, CANDItO said:
I have a couple of players with Comes Deep to Get the Ball (one MEZZ and one AM/AP/SS). I have noticed that a lot of my players have Runs Forward Whenever Possible, Tries Killer Ball Often, Plays One-Twos, Knocks Ball Past Opponent, so perhaps the team is more suited for a fast counter attack play rather then possession football. I'll tinker a bit more with the formation and the PIs to see if I manage to get somebody to provide depth and by coming lower and perhaps arriving late near the box.
I still think that most of the lack of depth is caused by how narrow/tight the opposition decides to play, so perhaps I need to increase the tempo to catch players outside of position and use the space they would leave.
The traits should work for possession IMO. Its just important to pair the correct traits in the right role and having fitting players (attributes) for it.
Yeah, when opponents do that, its often very effective to increase tempo or passing range, or altering the width to stretch them even more.0 -
23 hours ago, CANDItO said:
First of all, thank you for the feedback and for letting me share my 2 cents here. Unfortunately most of the points you raised were something I already tinkered with quite a lot but I still don't seem to be able to crack it. Don't get me wrong, it kind of works, just not as well as I hoped. Last season I won CL (0-0 and then penalties) with this module, playing with a CAU mentality for most of the match as an underdog vs. Manchester United. I lost Serie A by 6 points and also lost Coppa Italia on penalties (also 0-0).
This is before I even stumbled on this fantastic thread of yours. As you can see, many things are similar to what we just discussed. Great minds think alike?
Moving on, and trying to perfect this, I have read of your approach in this thread and tinkered a bit with the formation. This is what I am using now. (Pellegrini, Kubo and Finn and Gasparini are additions from this season)
I present here to you a case study of my last game (H) vs Sassuolo (mid-table) which might be helpful to understand the issues with this setup and hopefully aid the discussion.
The game was won with no goals from open play. Scored immediately on a corner. Conceded after the break also on a corner. Moved to VA mentality right after and managed to obtain a penalty (foul on Tomiyasu cutting in the box from the byline) 15mins before the end of the game.
The ability of my players and the stats seem to be telling me that it should've been an easier game to win. We have great familiarity with this tactic and morale is Extremely Good on average.
This is the heatmap with avg.pos with ball for the first half. The two behind the striker are very very close. Too close for my liking. Good width and occupation of spaces otherwise.
A bit higher up the pitch after changing mentality for the full game avg.pos and heatmap.
It seems crazy to me that we are not able to score more goals, and not from open play, when at times we are able to produce free flowing football like this one in the example below. Around 30th minute of this game while winning 1-0, on POS mentality.
Any thoughts?
I think @Crazy_Ivan has a legit point. Will explain further down, however the basics seems great, like mine
21 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:That heat map doesn't look good at all to me, if I am trying to create a possession tactic I wan't it to look something like this. Whether anything resembling this can be achieved with that formation I am unsure.
Yes, I agree. spacing is very important to get fast and desicive passing. If there is not enough space, there will be though to create slick passes with decent tempo. You want every pass to either move your team into a better position and/or opportunity OR move the opponent vertically or laterally around the pitch. For that you will need said spacing. IE your team will need to have width, but also depth. Width you get from the wing backs but depth is scarce. I think a first step would be to either change one mezalla or move one into attack. Secondly What's the PPM's for the attacking midfielders and the central ones? its quite important for the movement too.
In the clip you linked the passing is there but its quite short and you can see the points im trying to make in which players are running into the box. They are all attacking in relatively the same area, lacking both "width" and "depth". Which makes it harder to break down the opponents. The players trait can help with this, but also PI's. Moves into channels can be helpful, but mezzalas and SS + PFa will already have it. Do you have some players that comes deep to collect too?
EDIT: This shows what Im trying to say. Width and decent depth.
EDIT2: Current TI's
This leads to possession but also sometimes the longer pass. This GIF is actually an overhit pass but the result becomes desirable anyway. It intended for the left striker but it is too long and gets to the right striker instead.
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4-4-1-1 A very flexible tactic and the long term development.
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Thank you good Sir.