Help with tactic (OM)

[masno]

I started me save with OM, and had several nice results in the beginning of my save, but I am having a problem that in games that I lose, my team is simply nule in the game. No chances, the defense is all over the place, it seems like a total different team from when we win. I really I'm not being able to see where my team is being bad, because sundelly everyone starts to miss passes, they left pockets of space in the field, and despite putting instructions to try to stop this problems, they persist in levels that I truly not even enjoying playing FM24 anymore.

 

Just a comparison between months, I won several big games, even that woney against paris by 5-1, but now I can't win even the simplest of the games. That game against leipzig was a disaster, as my team was winning 2-0, they equalized, I did changes, we made it 3-2, I then started to seal the spaces to try to hold the result, but again, my team literally decided that they don't know how to defend and let them score 2 back to back. This game against Lens was even worst, my team literally didn't played the game, I had 1 opportunity, and they dominated me, despite the changes that I did.

That is the tactic that I go in games with, but I usually change things during  the game in favor of the game.

[julle17]

I'm not too familiar with the Ligue 1 squads, so take this with a grain of salt. However as far as i know, Lens and Nice are two of the better teams in the league and Leipzig are a good team too. Doesn't seem too unlikely to lose especially when your squad isn't much better than the league standard, just my two cents.
Saying anything about your tactic is quite hard imo, doesn't look like anything major is wrong with it imo. However without seeing what formation your opponents played and how you conceded your goals, and maybe even more interesting would be to see some of the game against Lens to identify why you only generated 1 chance.

[masno]

40 minutos atrás, julle17 disse:

I'm not too familiar with the Ligue 1 squads, so take this with a grain of salt. However as far as i know, Lens and Nice are two of the better teams in the league and Leipzig are a good team too. Doesn't seem too unlikely to lose especially when your squad isn't much better than the league standard, just my two cents.
Saying anything about your tactic is quite hard imo, doesn't look like anything major is wrong with it imo. However without seeing what formation your opponents played and how you conceded your goals, and maybe even more interesting would be to see some of the game against Lens to identify why you only generated 1 chance.

While I know that my squad is not meant to be a winner squad, as I play with OM every year (became a FM tradition), my problem is with the complacency that my team have during games that I lose. I wouldn't have any problem if I lose, but I see my players trying to win games, but every loss that I had in FM24 is basically:

My team miss passes every time, I change my midfield, or decide to send the ball forward, as I am not being able to pass through the press, but that definitely doesn't change anything, as my players loses the ball anyway, and my team don't get any possession.
Together with this, I basically cannot press them, neither defend. It is like their players know where every ounce of space is, and my players don't. So I get pressured the whole game, even using OIs and individual marking, the players are always dismarked and ready to do their things.

And that is tormenting me, because in games that I win, my team is playing exactly as I expect them to play, with their flaws and strenghts. But in games that I lose, is like my team only have flaws, and they are all over the place. The game against Nice was the worst game in the season, Moffi was having a field day, and nothing that I did was able to stop him, and his first 2 goals in the season were against me. I saw his last perfomances, and they were all terrible, but against me he played like Messi.But somehow the same defense that weren't able to stop nice, were completely capable of stopping PSG from thrashing us.

Edited May 13 by masno
Grammar

[bosque]

The tactic looks fine and well balanced. Sometimes the team will just underperform, especially with mid tier players. Over confidence or lack of motivation may be a problem. Are you doing your press conferences and team talks? A bad pre-match press conference/team talk can put your players on a bad frame of mind. Maybe you are adding unnecesary pressure in a match you are expected to loose or you sound over confident in a very easy match an then your players don't play 100% ready. I think nervousnes plays a big part in recent FM editions.

Edit: How about your squad rotation? Tired players tend to underperform

Edited May 13 by bosque

[Delial]

Several things here :

First and foremost, I spent the last two weeks trying to succeed with Marseille. Twice, it ended up at me being sacked off before the end of the first season. The board gives you around 50M to spent right before January mercato and, both times I bought good and reliable players in order to really upgrade the team and make it fit way more to the style of play I was reaching for. Despite good performances from some players (Aubameyang scoring for fun...), I always ended losing 1-4 at home against Nantes or Lorient. So, my take here is that Marseille squad sucks a lot during the first season (once again, FM sticks a lot to IRL hehehe). If someone manage to suck it up for the first season, you can get rid of dead woods and look for a brighter future!

However, regarding your tactic, if nothing seems to be wrong with roles and Ti's, I see several issues. First, trying to play high and intense press with Correa (workrate of 7), Harit and Pellistri is very ambitious. Or suicidal. In my remain, Pellistri is more a target man type rather than a winger. Ounahi has poor finishing so CM(A) might not be the best role for him (switch him and Smith Rowe, it should be better). Mbemba lacks of composure to play as a single pivot. By playing 2 BPD (especially those two) you take a lot of risks. And Kurzawa is a very mediocre left back. So playing as an right inverted FB is not the right fit IMHO.

Good luck with your save, you have a lot of courage to try to make Marseille succeed this year!

[masno]

1 hora atrás, Delial disse:

Several things here :

 

However, regarding your tactic, if nothing seems to be wrong with roles and Ti's, I see several issues. First, trying to play high and intense press with Correa (workrate of 7), Harit and Pellistri is very ambitious. Or suicidal. In my remain, Pellistri is more a target man type rather than a winger. Ounahi has poor finishing so CM(A) might not be the best role for him (switch him and Smith Rowe, it should be better). Mbemba lacks of composure to play as a single pivot. By playing 2 BPD (especially those two) you take a lot of risks. And Kurzawa is a very mediocre left back. So playing as an right inverted FB is not the right fit IMHO.

Good luck with your save, you have a lot of courage to try to make Marseille succeed this year!

That squad is not my best one, is simply the one that would play the next game, as my first squad is tired AF. Usually I play Vitinha up top, as he is scoring for fun, Harit on the left side as usual, and he is surprisingly one of my best players. Mbemba is my right FB, and usually the best defensive player that I have. About the 2 BPD, it was my solution for this game in specific, that I needed creativity from my defenders to find players uptop. And I also use Smith Rowe in the right, as a Creative player, as I tested other faster players there, but didn't have much a return.

And yeah, Marseille this year is impossible, sometimes. I had a great start of season, but now is like I am going down super hard. I really was trying to look if something in my tactics are crazy wrong, because one thing is my squad being bad since the beginning, the other is my squad shows great football against some clubs, and then not playing against others.

[Delial]

Il y a 17 heures, masno a dit :

That squad is not my best one, is simply the one that would play the next game, as my first squad is tired AF. Usually I play Vitinha up top, as he is scoring for fun, Harit on the left side as usual, and he is surprisingly one of my best players. Mbemba is my right FB, and usually the best defensive player that I have. About the 2 BPD, it was my solution for this game in specific, that I needed creativity from my defenders to find players uptop. And I also use Smith Rowe in the right, as a Creative player, as I tested other faster players there, but didn't have much a return.

And yeah, Marseille this year is impossible, sometimes. I had a great start of season, but now is like I am going down super hard. I really was trying to look if something in my tactics are crazy wrong, because one thing is my squad being bad since the beginning, the other is my squad shows great football against some clubs, and then not playing against others.

Yes OK right, this line up is better indeed.
As previous people said, did you try to micro manage players ? 
But to be honest, I don't really how to make things work with Marseille on first season. Just... bite the bullet and try to make it until summer mercato to get rid of dead woods and do a proper scouting session. 

 

[masno]

3 horas atrás, Delial disse:

Yes OK right, this line up is better indeed.
As previous people said, did you try to micro manage players ? 
But to be honest, I don't really how to make things work with Marseille on first season. Just... bite the bullet and try to make it until summer mercato to get rid of dead woods and do a proper scouting session. 

 

Honestly, things are better right now. I ended up not getting much in champions, as my group was Barcelona, Salzburg and Leipzig, so I could focus in the league. Right now I'm in second, 10 games without losses, but 17 points behind PSG. I bought 3 players in january that saved my team, 2 wingers, and a right fullback.

And yes, I micro manage my players. I play FM for like, 10 years now, but I really struggled with this beginning of season with OM. I never had a team that was so inconsistent like they are.

[Cloud9]

37 minutes ago, masno said:

Honestly, things are better right now. I ended up not getting much in champions, as my group was Barcelona, Salzburg and Leipzig, so I could focus in the league. Right now I'm in second, 10 games without losses, but 17 points behind PSG. I bought 3 players in january that saved my team, 2 wingers, and a right fullback.

And yes, I micro manage my players. I play FM for like, 10 years now, but I really struggled with this beginning of season with OM. I never had a team that was so inconsistent like they are.

The tactic is setup to play fairly direct via roles which can see you easily frustrated when the opposition start taking you more seriously and primarily sit back.

Edited May 14 by Cloud9

[masno]

2 horas atrás, Cloud9 disse:

The tactic is setup to play fairly direct via roles which can see you easily frustrated when the opposition start taking you more seriously and primarily sit back.

Oppositions that usually sit back end being swallowed by my team, that is not the case, I do changes so I have more width and options. As I said before, my problem was with inconsistency, my team would simply refuse to play certain games, so neither the attack or the defense would work. After getting new players I realized, it was a squad problem, not a tactic problem.

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, masno said:

Oppositions that usually sit back end being swallowed by my team, that is not the case, I do changes so I have more width and options. As I said before, my problem was with inconsistency, my team would simply refuse to play certain games, so neither the attack or the defense would work. After getting new players I realized, it was a squad problem, not a tactic problem.

I do think teams adjusting to you is an underlying factor in the turn in form. You certainly don't have bad players as one of the best teams in France and if you can beat your arch rivals PSG away 5-1! Of course adding quality will always help you become stronger. 

• All your frontline, and particularly the AF, would have benefited immensely from teams leaving space in behind against you. 

Unless the players have the actual inconsistent trait, my guess would be as @bosque mentions, that your issues are primarily around squad management. Rotating the squad and man management are pivotal to continued success. A lackluster pre-season (which the game does not indicate is important) will see your form drop of the cliff mid season for seemingly no reason. 

• If you have games where you feel your team "refuse to play" it's almost certainly due to a combination of those factors. The game does not have an anti player bias against you. 

From a tactical perspective, learning to make in match changes... for example when you're getting dominated away at Lens. There will be matches where things aren't going your way and making tweaks to your approach + addressing opposition strengths is where you'll earn your stripes as the manager. Role changes are particularly important on FM24 and the AI is more reactive as well. 

• A good gauge of how effective your in match changes are is how your team performs in the second half of matches. This is the managers half

Edited May 15 by Cloud9