focus play down flank working for anyone?

[thebreadlady]

i want to play down the left flank but we keep playing down the right. this is pretty much every game. 

 

433 balanced, in possession - focus left, play out of defence, fairly wide, slower tempo. 

DLFa

IWs                           Wa

DLPs     MEZa

DMs

FBs   CB   CB   FBs

[thebreadlady]

this is the tactic flipped - 

[crusadertsar]

But you have more aggressive attacking duties on your right flank. While IW and DLP are not an ideal combo. DLP tends to launch cross-side thoroughballs rather then dynamically connect with your left attacker (via one-twos for example). If you want to play more down the left side then make sure to change the role of DLP to RPM or BBM.

Edited April 10 by crusadertsar

[thebreadlady]

56 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

But you have more aggressive attacking duties on your right flank. While IW and DLP are not an ideal combo. DLP tends to launch cross-side thoroughballs rather then dynamically connect with your left attacker (via one-twos for example). If you want to play more down the left side then make sure to change the role of DLP to RPM or BBM.

yes im trying to play out the back and focus our build up play and pull the opposition to the left hand side then launch diagonal killer balls from the left side to create scoring opportunities for the attacking duty players on the right hand side. 

heatmap is just a general visualization for you guys to see what im seeing in the game. i played many games trying different roles on the left with the same result as the first heatmap above so then i tried to just flip the tactic and voila, as you can see from the second heatmap. regardless of your suggestions, why is it that the same tactic but flipped and all of a sudden my players are focusing play down the correct side according to the TI? 

[Cloud9]

48 minutes ago, thebreadlady said:

yes im trying to play out the back and focus our build up play and pull the opposition to the left hand side then launch diagonal killer balls from the left side to create scoring opportunities for the attacking duty players on the right hand side. 

heatmap is just a general visualization for you guys to see what im seeing in the game. i played many games trying different roles on the left with the same result as the first heatmap above so then i tried to just flip the tactic and voila, as you can see from the second heatmap. regardless of your suggestions, why is it that the same tactic but flipped and all of a sudden my players are focusing play down the correct side according to the TI? 

I have no problems with the focus play TI, except that if you leave it on the entire match your players in that area will be exhausted

The DLP(s) as an 8 can cause build up issues (usually 8's don't have hold position) and I don't see a lot of natural width on the left like there is on the right hand side. DLP also doesn't really progress the ball, but recycles it. The Mez(a) on the other hand does, he swings wide right and is your primary midfielder responsible for progressing the ball (dribbling/passing) in your midfield 3. This creates kind of a lopsided 4-2-3-1.

Usually when the play is progressing down the right hand side of the pitch it's because your goalkeeper is right footed and he's passing the ball out to the right hand side, which is also where your tactic is setup to progress the ball through the thirds (not the left hand side).

• Little changes like putting in a FB(a), swapping out the DLP, and distributing directly to the left sided center back (ideally a left footed BPD w/ dribble more) will help you to build up down the left a bit more.

Edited April 10 by Cloud9

[thebreadlady]

2 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Usually when the play is progressing down the right hand side of the pitch it's because your goalkeeper is right footed and he's passing the ball out to the right hand side, which is where your tactic is setup to progress the ball through the thirds (not the left hand side). 

fyi its the other way around, right footed keepers prefer to pass to the left which was the jumping off point for me to decide on focus play down the left. a few random examples: 

[Cloud9]

5 minutes ago, thebreadlady said:

fyi its the other way around, right footed keepers prefer to pass to the left which was the jumping off point for me to decide on focus play down the left. a few random examples: 

If the goalkeeper isn't sparking the issue in your case that's okay.

The roles are the core part of why you're seeing the lopsided buildup. If you can address that you will fix your problem.

[thebreadlady]

tested for the past few hours the tactic below and the tactic flipped with focus right but the heatmap remains the same, heavy on the right side for both. im stumped. 

 

19 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I have no problems with the focus play TI, except that if you leave it on the entire match your players in that area will be exhausted

maybe you coincidentally just happen to focus play down the correct side

[Cloud9]

8 minutes ago, thebreadlady said:

tested for the past few hours the tactic below and the tactic flipped with focus right but the heatmap remains the same, heavy on the right side for both. im stumped. 

 

maybe you coincidentally just happen to focus play down the correct side

There isn't a correct side to focus play down, it's a TI I use within matches to influence them based on an opponents weakness, or if I want my fullbacks(s)/wingback(d) more involved up the pitch. 

The issue here is still your roles, the only player really looking the progress the ball from the midfield or defensive third is the MEZ(a) who will do so aggressively, carrying the ball and making line breaking passes. @crusadertsar recommended to you a BBM or RPM which are both more expansive roles than a CM(s) to pair the MEZ(a). 

• You can keep the CM(s) if you like, but if you want to buildup down the left hand side you will need roles capable of doing that.

Edited April 10 by Cloud9

[thebreadlady]

1 minute ago, Cloud9 said:

There isn't a correct side to focus play down, it's a TI I use within matches to influence them based on an opponents weakness, or if I want my fullbacks(s)/wingback(d) more involved up the pitch. 

The issue here is still your roles, the only player really looking the progress the ball from the midfield or defensive third is the MEZ(a) who will do so aggressively, carrying the ball and making line breaking passes.

mate, i dont think youre actually looking through my posts. 

how is it that the same tactic and its inversion are both heavy on the right side according to the heatmap? if what youre saying is correct, but its clearly not, then the heatmap should also be inverted if i invert the tactic. 

[crusadertsar]

24 minutes ago, thebreadlady said:

mate, i dont think youre actually looking through my posts. 

how is it that the same tactic and its inversion are both heavy on the right side according to the heatmap? if what youre saying is correct, but its clearly not, then the heatmap should also be inverted if i invert the tactic. 

Stop looking at the heat map and actually test some of the advice we are giving you. I have tested and written about overloads and channelling ball into specific side on here before and trust me 80% of the time, the trick is in the roles you choose. 

[thebreadlady]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Stop looking at the heat map and actually test some of the advice we are giving you. I have tested and written about overloads and channelling ball into specific side on here before and trust me 80% of the time, the trick is in the roles you choose. 

Sure but my question has now evolved into why my tactic and it's inversion's heatmap are both heavy on the right side. Shouldnt the heatmap also be inverted? 

[jc577]

2 hours ago, thebreadlady said:

Sure but my question has now evolved into why my tactic and it's inversion's heatmap are both heavy on the right side. Shouldnt the heatmap also be inverted? 

No mate, it doesn’t work like that. Think about it like this - roles/duties determine where you build up play, and have a bigger influence on this than TI’s. 
 

So applying this to your latest tactic - a trio of FB-S, CM-S, and W-S doesn’t scream ‘we’re looking to build our attacks from here’, especially considering you have a MEZ-A on the other side. 
 

However, a trio of a FB-A, RPM/BBM, and an IW-S would likely see build up on the left flank, with the RPM able to switch the ball to your attacking duo on the right. 

[thebreadlady]

6 hours ago, jc577 said:

No mate, it doesn’t work like that. Think about it like this - roles/duties determine where you build up play, and have a bigger influence on this than TI’s. 
 

So applying this to your latest tactic - a trio of FB-S, CM-S, and W-S doesn’t scream ‘we’re looking to build our attacks from here’, especially considering you have a MEZ-A on the other side. 
 

However, a trio of a FB-A, RPM/BBM, and an IW-S would likely see build up on the left flank, with the RPM able to switch the ball to your attacking duo on the right. 

Guys I get what you're saying but you're still not understanding my 2nd question. Forget about the initial query. 

 

you people are saying my roles and duties is why my heatmap is heavy on the right side contrary to my instruction to play down the left, thats all well and good and i understand but what im now saying, after my 2nd post, is that if i flip my roles and duties, my heatmap is still the same. 

What I'm curious about now is the heatmap now. Doesn't the heatmap indicate the amount of activity in certain areas of the pitch? You guys are saying my roles in the initial tactic is making us play heavy on the right side contrary to my focus play down left TI, but if I invert my roles and have my MEZa and IFa on the left and DLP on the right and focus play down right TI I still end up with a similar heatmap of high activity on the right hand side of the pitch. 

Edited April 11 by thebreadlady

[herne79]

54 minutes ago, thebreadlady said:

Guys I get what you're saying but you're still not understanding my 2nd question. Forget about the initial query. 

 

What I'm curious about is the heatmap now. Doesn't the heatmap indicate the amount of activity in certain areas of the pitch? You guys are saying my roles in the initial tactic is making us play heavy on the right side contrary to my focus play down left TI, but if I invert my roles and have my MEZa and IFa on the left and DLP on the right and focus play down right TI I still end up with a similar heatmap of high activity on the right hand side of the pitch. 

Because heat maps (and average position maps for that matter) are not exactly great at helping you to draw conclusions about what your team are up to.  This is because there are more influencing factors than just where the ball is such as what your opponents are doing; where players go for throw ins/corners/free kicks; substitutions; tactical changes and so on.

There is also the consideration that flipping the tactic may have been better suited to the players and role selection that way around and perhaps better suited against the opponent(s) you happened to be playing against.  However we don’t know the context of your test.

So use heat maps as a starting point if you like but there is no substitute for watching what is actually happening on the pitch.

[thebreadlady]

just to humor you guys, ran a few games with your suggestions

focus left TI

LB FBa, LCM RPM, LW IWs

+60% possession

 

VS.

focus right

RB FBa, RCM RPM, RW IWs

[thebreadlady]

focus left tactic but with a left footed DM instead of a right footed one: 

 

[crusadertsar]

Just now, thebreadlady said:

focus left tactic but with a left footed DM instead of a right footed one: 

 

Have you watched some of these matches in full or at least on comprehensive highlights to actually see what's happening on the pitch?

[thebreadlady]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Have you watched some of these matches in full or at least on comprehensive highlights to actually see what's happening on the pitch?

yea they favor passing to the right side, especially my starting DM. 

focus left variation tactic was very weak, barely any chances and lost a few games too. focus right tactic though was a beast. 

there was one particular game with the focus right variation of the tactic that ended 7-1 and it was clear we kept playing and progressing down the right flank then switched it to the left in the final third for goal scoring opportunities.