Is there a definite response on the importance and role of Natural Fitness?

[AntSou]

I'm struggling to find actual data of the impact of Natural Fitness on... anything? The very few data I've seen seems to show it has negligible impact on loss of sharpness/fatigue recovery, and more importantly, no impact in preventing player decline.

I remain sceptical of these tests though, especially on the lack of impact on player decline, yet I've been looking for more information and all I can find are people talking out of their backsides, which frankly seems to have become a tradition among FM players. The amount of common wisdom that turned out to be incorrect over the years makes me highly sceptical of 'word of mouth' knowledge. But it's difficult to blame players when we really don't know how things work in the background, and many in-game descriptions have been proven to be incorrect or not have the impact SI claims it does.

If anyone knows of well documented tests on Natural Fitness, I would appreciate it.

I would also appreciate SI's definitive response on it (these bits of wisdom are usually shared by si staff/mods on this forum), to at least have an understanding of the intended design for this attribute. I assume it won't contradict the in-game description, but perhaps there's something more comprehensive which has been shared on these forums in the past.

Thanks!

[Kickballz]

3 hours ago, AntSou said:

 all I can find are people talking out of their backsides, which frankly seems to have become a tradition among FM players.

You definitely know how to start a debate on the right note then.

[AntSou]

38 minutes ago, Kickballz said:

You definitely know how to start a debate on the right note then.

But I do not want to start a debate? So I don't understand your sarcasm.

[XaW]

According to the manual

Quote

How fit a player will stay fit when injured or not training. This helps to determine how quickly players recover from injury, how well they retain their physical attributes as they go past their peak, and how fast they recover between matches.

SI have, to my knowledge, never really given out direct percentage info or any more detail, as it seems to be a conscious decision to keep things a bit in the dark. So I wouldn't expect SI to give much detail about it.

[santy001]

When it comes to player decline, as the manual mentions its only impacting physical attributes. I wouldn't expect there to be much in the way of meaningful tests done on it because even at a glance its going to be difficult to ever come up with a meaningful test. Not to mention natural fitness is only a small piece of a larger system when it comes to the areas it does influence. 

[AntSou]

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

When it comes to player decline, as the manual mentions its only impacting physical attributes. I wouldn't expect there to be much in the way of meaningful tests done on it because even at a glance its going to be difficult to ever come up with a meaningful test. Not to mention natural fitness is only a small piece of a larger system when it comes to the areas it does influence. 

I was hoping someone would have just compared decline for players over 30 with the same birthdate and with equal attributes but with different values for Natural Fitness. But I can't really find anything of the sort.

That "Evidence Based Football Manager" channel has some very interesting tests but often makes what seem like sweeping conclusions. One of his tests seemed to suggest Natural Fitness has no impact on speed of decline after 30, but the test wasn't specifically formulated to test that, so I'm doubtful. Given these sort of analytics seem to have become more common in the community in the last few years, I thought perhaps someone had already done it, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[santy001]

To the best of my knowledge players have their own development bell curves and so to what extent this can be mitigated by attributes which offset decline like professionalism, like natural fitness is not something we'll ever have a clear answer to and justifiably so I believe. It's meant to be an unknown that varies from player to player. 

No one would invest the time to reproduce it hundreds of times monitoring the same batch of players, trained and utilised in the same way. A player may decline faster if used too much, or too little in a team. They may decline faster if their other mental attributes see them step away from the highest level they could still compete at too early. The coaching staff of the team and their facilities. 

Considering most of the test community relies on holiday mode and freezing attributes, morale etc it's likely to be too far out of the scope of their understanding to even build a semi-meaningful test for - never mind actually complete. 

[Rashidi]

18 hours ago, AntSou said:

If anyone knows of well documented tests on Natural Fitness, I would appreciate it.

Attributes don't work in isolation. So any simulation like that would be a waste, plus one needs to play the game to see the impact over time, and I doubt anyone wants to sit there and do a run like that.  If it happens it will do so across a save, and my anecdotal experience has suggested I avoid two kinds of players - unambitious and players with very low natural fitness.

[AntSou]

7 hours ago, santy001 said:

To the best of my knowledge players have their own development bell curves and so to what extent this can be mitigated by attributes which offset decline like professionalism, like natural fitness is not something we'll ever have a clear answer to and justifiably so I believe. It's meant to be an unknown that varies from player to player. 

Interesting. Is that from personal experience, or do you recall SI staff making some sort of comment in that regard? So it would be like a hidden "attribute" (or characteristic) which doesn't show up in the editor like actual "hidden attributes".

Also, this is the sort of thing I was referring to in my OP. Understanding this game feels like an Anthropologist/Linguist trying to decipher an ancient language 

I'll just keep valuing Natural Fitness and Professionalism when it comes to players at the age of 30. The latter seems to have very wide implications in the game, it's not unreasonable to think it's also playing a role in preventing player decline.