This might be the best tactic I have ever created

[ThomasHK1979]

So I am playing a 433 with Milan and I have litteraly  won evrything, scoring a ton of goals. What really changed things from very good to fantastic was to change my DM role to a Regista. Here are the PI´s

GK

IFB´s - Both on run wide with ball and tackle harder

Libero

Regista

B2B

CMa - Dribble more, take more risk

IFa - Stay wider, Close down more often, Mark tighter

Ws -  Close down more often, Mark tighter

CFa - Close down more often, Tackle harder

[Mutumba]

Yeah, but... tactics do tend to become successful if you have 5-6 wonderkids in your starting XI. Youve got Diomande and Silva on the bench along with Leao, Neves, Restes AND Bouanani. And thats your BENCH. Those players would be key players for any top sides in just a couple of years.

[ceefax the cat]

I see a maxed out defensive line, closing down, counterpressing and... yep. As long as the rest of your instructions vaguely make sense, that'll be that.

Edited January 31 by ceefax the cat

[Cloud9]

17 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

So I am playing a 433 with Milan and I have litteraly  won evrything, scoring a ton of goals. What really changed things from very good to fantastic was to change my DM role to a Regista. Here are the PI´s

GK

IFB´s - Both on run wide with ball and tackle harder

Libero

Regista

B2B

CMa - Dribble more, take more risk

IFa - Stay wider, Close down more often, Mark tighter

Ws -  Close down more often, Mark tighter

CFa - Close down more often, Tackle harder

Not sure why there's a negative response to this,  glad you found a tactical setup you're liking!

A high quality Regista can really make tactics like this tick. 

Edited January 31 by Cloud9

[Skywalk3r83]

Good job! Enjoy your save mate!

[Carambau]

Well done mate  have fun!

[Novem9]

Double IFB is definitely not what I expected to see!  Could you post screenshots from Data Hub -> Matches -> Last Match Passes? Really want to see how your formation looks in this window.

Is your left flank feeling good? Or is it hardly used?

23 часа назад, ThomasHK1979 сказал:

won evrything, scoring a ton of goals

What time period are you talking about?

Edited January 31 by Novem9

[ThomasHK1979]

19 hours ago, Mutumba said:

Yeah, but... tactics do tend to become successful if you have 5-6 wonderkids in your starting XI. Youve got Diomande and Silva on the bench along with Leao, Neves, Restes AND Bouanani. And thats your BENCH. Those players would be key players for any top sides in just a couple of years.

What you are seeing on the pitch is my B-Side because I have an important CL match 3 days later. 

[ThomasHK1979]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Not sure why there's a negative response to this,  glad you found a tactical setup you're liking!

A high quality Regista can really make tactics like this tick. 

No exactly. This tactic is SO good. And my results are amazing. This tactic is heavily inspired by @Rashidi video about overlapping IFB. They contribute to the attack much better than WCD and are defensively SO strong. Many of the opponents attacks comes within the channels and my IFB constantly intercepts the opponents passes. 
 

[Mst82]

On 31/01/2024 at 05:17, ceefax the cat said:

I see a maxed out defensive line, closing down, counterpressing and... yep. As long as the rest of your instructions vaguely make sense, that'll be that.

Yep I avoid gegenpress variations like the plague, but fair play to the lad if he’s enjoying it 👍🏼

[NineCloudNine]

I haven’t tried a Regista yet because it was just so depressing in FM23. The combination with the Libero and the double IFB are very interesting, I might try that so thank you for the inspiration.

My only caveat is that you’ve got a very very strong team. Serie A is not a great league at the moment and a team of that quality - even if they are all kids - would probably steamroll the league with most tactics.

Edited February 1 by NineCloudNine

[Cloud9]

On 01/02/2024 at 04:25, NineCloudNine said:

I haven’t tried a Regista yet because it was just so depressing in FM23. The combination with the Libero and the double IFB are very interesting, I might try that so thank you for the inspiration.

My only caveat is that you’ve got a very very strong team. Serie A is not a great league at the moment and a team of that quality - even if they are all kids - would probably steamroll the league with most tactics.

Regista is fantastic but it requires a very high quality player to pull it off. He needs the physical / defensive abilities (and height) to be the holding 6 in a 4-3-3 while also having the technical ability + mental attributes to break the lines from deep. His expansive passing range can take your team to the next level. 

In a 4-3-3 I'd often turn to a DM(s) unless I found a very special player for that role  

[NineCloudNine]

5 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Regista is fantastic but it requires a very high quality player to pull it off. He needs the physical / defensive abilities (and height) to be the holding 6 in a 4-3-3 while also having the technical ability + mental attributes to break the lines from deep. His expansive passing range can take your team to the next level.

This is absolutely true. A mildly sad outcome of this is that players with Regista as their best role rarely have the defensive attributes you describe, because if they do the game will rank them as a DLP. I know that doesn't matter for how they play in a Regista role, but it does mean that the Pirlo archetype doesn't work in the Pirlo role in FM.

One other aside on this - because of the attributes required to be a Regista, the best/purest ones can often be found currently playing as an AM. Joao Felix and Reinier Jesus are examples. Sinde Pirlo famously moved from AM to DM, I like that hidden Regista gems can currently be found playing further upfield, just waiting to find their true calling .

[ceefax the cat]

6 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

This is absolutely true. A mildly sad outcome of this is that players with Regista as their best role rarely have the defensive attributes you describe, because if they do the game will rank them as a DLP. I know that doesn't matter for how they play in a Regista role, but it does mean that the Pirlo archetype doesn't work in the Pirlo role in FM.

One other aside on this - because of the attributes required to be a Regista, the best/purest ones can often be found currently playing as an AM. Joao Felix and Reinier Jesus are examples. Sinde Pirlo famously moved from AM to DM, I like that hidden Regista gems can currently be found playing further upfield, just waiting to find their true calling .

It'd be handy if you could have a meaningful impact on players' attributes by retraining them. IRL, you can take a no. 10 like Pirlo, encourage him to play at DM and, as he learns his job, his ability at positioning, marking etc will significantly increase. Of course they do, he's having to think about them and practise them every day. In FM, that's never in a million years going to happen. He'll just remain a guy with an AM skillset who happens to be 'accomplished' in a different position - whatever that means. If becoming 'accomplished' at playing DM doesn't mean you're better at positioning, marking, anticipating, etc then it doesn't mean an awful lot, does it.

[NineCloudNine]

8 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

IRL, you can take a no. 10 like Pirlo, encourage him to play at DM and, as he learns his job, his ability at positioning, marking etc will significantly increase. Of course they do, he's having to think about them and practise them every day.

I'm not sure Pirlo ever bothered with such things ! But that was fine because the rest of the team could be built around him and allow him to do his stuff. I don't think a player with a similar profile would succeed in FM, but then I don't think they'd succeed IRL either any more.

Edited February 3 by NineCloudNine

[ceefax the cat]

29 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

I'm not sure Pirlo ever bothered with such things ! But that was fine because the rest of the team could be built around him and allow him to do his stuff. I don't think a player with a similar profile would succeed in FM, but then I don't think they'd succeed IRL either any more.

Naaaah. You don't get to defend in the middle of a midfield 3 or 4 in World Cup finals and Champions League games if you're awful at standing in the right place, closing down at the right time and marking whoever is in your zone. He was more positional - more Xabi Alonso than N'golo Kanté - but he was clearly an extremely competent defensive midfielder.

It's not really an option to 'not bother with such things' if you're occupying the zone directly in front of the back four - the bit where all the Zidanes and Bergkamps pop up. He didn't constantly try to win the ball and was probably not the best in the air or in a 50/50 challenge, but that is not the same thing as being weak defensively. Michael Carrick didn't run around battering people either but he was one of the best in the world at screening the back four.

Edited February 3 by ceefax the cat

[Bahnzo]

On 30/01/2024 at 06:01, ThomasHK1979 said:

IFa - Stay wider, Close down more often, Mark tighter

Ws -  Close down more often, Mark tighter

CFa - Close down more often, Tackle harder

How do you set the PI's to Close down more often, when you are already playing the highest pressing setting in the TI's? Am I missing something there?

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, ceefax the cat said:

It'd be handy if you could have a meaningful impact on players' attributes by retraining them. IRL, you can take a no. 10 like Pirlo, encourage him to play at DM and, as he learns his job, his ability at positioning, marking etc will significantly increase. Of course they do, he's having to think about them and practise them every day. In FM, that's never in a million years going to happen. He'll just remain a guy with an AM skillset who happens to be 'accomplished' in a different position - whatever that means. If becoming 'accomplished' at playing DM doesn't mean you're better at positioning, marking, anticipating, etc then it doesn't mean an awful lot, does it.

I often look to train DM players into other positions since a lot of the inherent defensive attributes are trickier to develop (aggression, tackling, teamwork etc.). Moving them to the attacking training group and doing your own training schedules properly goes a long way. You'll need to pick them up at a relatively young age as well. 

@NineCloudNine Retraining a Joao Felix to a Regista as a solo 6 would leave you massively exposed, he lacks defensively responsible attributes entirely and importantly, height. You could use him in in the role, but he'd need a Joao Paulinho next to him or you'd be in hot water. Reiner looks a better profile, but he'd never be able to become a solo competent DM in a 4-3-3 either.

Bruno Guimaraes at Newcastle is the modern day archetype for a solo regista I'd look for (attributes adjusted down to whatever lvl you're playing at). 

One of the reasons that @ThomasHK1979 tactic is working so well for him is that his 6 is his star player in Zaire Emery and the 4-3-3 w/a Regista plays to his strengths. Yes the playmaking is the final product part of the regista role, but his physical / mental attributes are paramount to be able to cover ground + be given the responsibility to roam defensively and make decisions outside the tactical structure. He is the defensive foundation that the formation requires to function.

If you've got a talented playmaker who doesn't have these defensive qualities and still want to play a 4-3-3, you'll want to play him as one of the 8's ahead of a DM(s) who can handle that weight instead. This is similar to what Real Madrid did for years with Casemiro holding down the fort while Kroos controlled the tempo of games. That being said, 8's in a 4-3-3 still have defensive responsibilities and need to be able to work for the team, and not just act as passenger players. 

Edited February 3 by Cloud9

[NineCloudNine]

40 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

 

@NineCloudNine Retraining a Joao Felix as a Regista as a solo 6 would leave you massively exposed as he lacks defensively responsible attributes entirely and importantly, height. You could use him in in the role, but he'd need a Joao Paulinho next to him or you'd be in hot water. Reiner looks a better profile, but he'd never be able to become a solo competent DM in a 4-3-3 either.

 

Oh for sure. I was just observing that the attribute profile the game looks for to give a player Regista as their preferred role is typically found in players currently playing AM, which I like because that's the Pirlo story. But I completely agree that such a pure offensive DM would not work at all as a solo DM, indeed would need a lot of support even to play as one of a pair. @ceefax the cat is also right that Pirlo himself learned to become more than a warm body in defence as well, primarily through smart positioning and anticipation. Ironically that means that FM would have classified him as a DLP.

Edited February 3 by NineCloudNine

[w_x]

Pirlo at Juve played with 3 centre backs to cover for him a bit, and two midfielders in Vidal (especially Vidal) and Marchisio who could help out with defensive stuff

[Cloud9]

20 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

Oh for sure. I was just observing that the attribute profile the game looks for to give a player Regista as their preferred role is typically found in players currently playing AM, which I like because that's the Pirlo story. But I completely agree that such a pure offensive DM would not work at all as a solo DM, indeed would need a lot of support even to play as one of a pair. @ceefax the cat is also right that Pirlo himself learned to become more than a warm body in defence as well, primarily through smart positioning and anticipation. Ironically that means that FM would have classified him as a DLP.

The game is not great at highlighting attributes for roles. I would view the highlighted attributes as a guideline if you've just started to play but aside from that they can be more misleading than helpful. 

I would expect the disjoint in Pirlo's regista vs the modern regista is how the game has changed, and particularly the demands on the 6 role.

Edited February 3 by Cloud9

[ceefax the cat]

18 minutes ago, w_x said:

Pirlo at Juve played with 3 centre backs to cover for him a bit, and two midfielders in Vidal (especially Vidal) and Marchisio who could help out with defensive stuff

And at Milan he had Gattuso to the right of him. He still has to go and occupy a zone right in front of the defence when he's out of possession though, and you don't want to be letting Wesley Sneijder find space there. I guess my point really is just that in FM you'd say someone at his level, capable of screening the defence vs the world's best attackers, would have very good scores for positioning, anticipation, concentration and probably marking. Your chances of retraining practically any AM in the game to be that player are zero, because the game treats attributes and positional familiarity as things that are slowly tweaked and sculpted over time, and which don't really change that much over the course of a career, when in reality a lot of these things are just a matter of practising a system in training and knowing what your job is.

Lahm didn't need ages to figure out how to play in the middle, Pirlo didn't need ages to figure out how to play DM, Giggs didn't require retraining to play in the middle... there are loads of examples. They didn't need to go away for months and learn the gentle art of positioning, they just had a new job explained to them and, because they were good footballers, they did it very well. In FM it'd be almost pointless to bother with any of those

Edited February 3 by ceefax the cat

[NineCloudNine]

9 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I would expect the disjoint in Pirlo's regista vs the modern regista is how the game has changed, and particularly the demands on the 6 role.

Very much so. Similarities in how hard it is to get an old-school #10 working in FM. The role doesn't really exist any more - either dropped deeper to be part of a hard-working midfield (De Bruyne) or playing as a deep-lying forward making space for wide attackers (Firmino).

Edited February 4 by NineCloudNine

[batsy23]

Congrats but it's an another run like hell & press everywhere tactic for me... And unfortunately, that's the key for the success in fm.

[Duracellio]

Em 31/01/2024 em 06:07, Cloud9 disse:

Not sure why there's a negative response to this,  glad you found a tactical setup you're liking!

A high quality Regista can really make tactics like this tick. 

I get it, because most of the people (that have a lot years playing FM) are sick and tired of seeing the same boring one style goes for all...although people have to take into consideration that not everyone have the same level of experience or the same will to turn up the dificulty a notch. Most of us "gegen haters" look at that particular style at the state it is in the current game engine as the "easy mode" button for FM24 and tend to show a bit of animosity towards this types of shares...

BUT

we all have to bear in mind that every post has some kind of knowledge to someone in their own way.  That being said, I found SI forums to be quite healthier  I'm happy that I found this forum

 

I liked how this set secured the flanks with a winger on the right side and an IF on the left with the "stay wider" instruction.

I've been trying with only 1 IFB combination to make a 3-1 rest defence, with the other WB playing more ofensive almost as a winger, for a long time without much success, I think its time to go for the 3-2 with two IFB and the libero.

Edited February 10 by Duracellio

[NineCloudNine]

7 hours ago, Duracellio said:

I've been trying with only 1 IFB combination to make a 3-1 rest defence, with the other WB playing more ofensive almost as a winger, for a long time without much success, I think its time to go for the 3-2 with two IFB and the libero.

Just on this, I have found that to make this work you need the WB to be very aggressive - WB-A or CWB with gets forward PPM - or they just don’t push up enough.