Where am I going wrong? Can’t score and concede too many

[Gruggburger]

Hi 

I have a previous post to get advice and the reply I got made sense so I’ve always near enough gone with this tactic and sometimes switch the mentality depending on who I’m playing.

Switched wb’s to fb’s as wondering if I had too much space behind when on a counter.

 On this game? Im in the bottom half of the table and on a long run of defeats and draws.

 

 

[crusadertsar]

You are still playing Very Defensive mentality though. I don't think you took any of the advice in the other thread then. Why even start another thread about the exact same thing and not try to correct the main issue?

[crusadertsar]

And to answer your question is that you cannot score because your players are playing way too cautiously and staying back in their own half which is what the team mentality is instructing them. When playing against a more aggressive attacking team a very defensive mentality will actually be counterproductive because they will just camp out outside your penalty area and bombard you with shots and crosses until one or two goes in. You can be the best team in the world and still lose this way if you decide to play in such a passive manner. In my opinion if you lose control in the midfield, you lose the game.

Edited July 6, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Johnny Ace]

What @crusadertsar says and take the Fullbacks off Auto, that basically matches them to the team mentality, so they're both on Defend 

It's hard to tell what sort of football you're trying to play to be honest 

[Gruggburger]

Hi 

sorry made the error of posting 2 threads when should of been one so my bad. 
 

thanks for the initial advice. Any defence advice for playing a more positive mentality and not leaving myself exposed? I’ve read on a few sites that putting your defensive line and l-o-e as close as possible not to leave space and not to put too high up as my defenders aren’t high when it comes to pace. 
 

this version of the game I know doesn’t give the option to have many chats I’ll try the suggestions as mentioned and see how I get on.

[Gruggburger]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

You are still playing Very Defensive mentality though. I don't think you took any of the advice in the other thread then. Why even start another thread about the exact same thing and not try to correct the main issue?

I just done it in the wrong way so apologies 

[Cloud9]

4 hours ago, Gruggburger said:

Hi 

I have a previous post to get advice and the reply I got made sense so I’ve always near enough gone with this tactic and sometimes switch the mentality depending on who I’m playing.

Switched wb’s to fb’s as wondering if I had too much space behind when on a counter.

 On this game? Im in the bottom half of the table and on a long run of defeats and draws.

 

 

I would avoid "very defensive" and "very attacking" mentalities in your tactics

Most of the recent tactical help threads on the forum have been about how to set up Man United, I would browse through and adopt the advice given there.

 

[Gruggburger]

Hi

well I rage quit last game so I’ve started a fresh and adapted a tiki taka style (one style I admire) 

when it comes to the bigger teams not sure how to set up?

should I change my mentality? 
 

thanks

[Cloud9]

39 minutes ago, Gruggburger said:

Hi

well I rage quit last game so I’ve started a fresh and adapted a tiki taka style (one style I admire) 

when it comes to the bigger teams not sure how to set up?

should I change my mentality? 
 

thanks

As one of the biggest teams in the world, you have the luxury to play your game plan almost all the time (even against other big clubs). You could make little changes like putting one wingback to a FB(s), or putting in a hard working midfielder for Fernandes/Eriksen in matches that are closer contests. 

I wouldn't feel the need to drop back, although you certainly have a squad capable of executing a midblock if you want to.

[Johnny Ace]

10 hours ago, Gruggburger said:

Hi

well I rage quit last game so I’ve started a fresh and adapted a tiki taka style (one style I admire) 

when it comes to the bigger teams not sure how to set up?

should I change my mentality? 
 

thanks

Is this the preset Tiki Taka tactic? If not, could you screenshot the Team Instructions please?

Looking at the roles, it's not bad at all, the base of the tactic looks solid then it goes into midfield and I feel it has some improvements you could made. The RPM on the right could do with being a slightly more positionally discipled role to help keep the midfield tight when the WB(A) has ventured forward. A straight up CM(S) would cover that job fine.

Then on the left hand side, Bruno is over there to make things happen, he'll be playing the risky passes and trying to make things happen, so you could change the IF to an IW, I think Sancho would be more suited to the that role anyway. Anthony could then be swapped to an IF(S), he doesn't need to be on Attack as an IF(S) is a pretty aggressive role in itself, make him just a little more focused on creating chances rather than trying to get on the end of them   

The TI's are the more important bit here though, I'd advise keeping it simple. Start on Positive and just start with 2-3 TI's, Play out of Defence is a given, maybe increase the pressing triggers and take it from there  

[Gruggburger]

Hi this is what have set at the moment.

I previously set up a 4231 dm am wide and started to hit bad form in jan? Bought Declan rice and Patrick schick 

[Johnny Ace]

It looks alright on the TI's, I can't say anything about the In Possession instructions but I associate Counter Pressing with High blocks, if your Counter Press fails, the closer you are to your goal, the more dangerous it is so to me it goes hand in hand with a high Press. I'd either raise your lines or drop the Counter Press.

[Gruggburger]

Cheers all. 
 

how do you guys look at getting the best out of your strikers?

[Cloud9]

7 hours ago, Gruggburger said:

Cheers all. 
 

how do you guys look at getting the best out of your strikers?

Play less strikers, you've got three at the moment. Two is plenty  

[Johnny Ace]

2 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Play less strikers, you've got three at the moment. Two is plenty  

Agree, if you're still set up like above @Gruggburger, there's no need for an IF(A) and an AF(A), one or the other for me

Shameless plug but I went through a load of different combinations that I like (and work for me) here:

 

[Gruggburger]

Cheers my dudes

i ended up doing a 30 plus career with around 24 trophies with spells with England and villa then England again and back to Utd and retired.

started another game to try things differently like giving more prospects a chance to develop 

[jens_dewit]

On 11/07/2023 at 08:30, Johnny Ace said:

there's no need for an IF(A) and an AF(A), one or the other for me

If you play an AF without an IF(a) in a 433, does your forward get involved in play enough? In previous years I found him to be easily isolated without an IF.

[Johnny Ace]

5 minutes ago, jens_dewit said:

If you play an AF without an IF(a) in a 433, does your forward get involved in play enough? In previous years I found him to be easily isolated without an IF.

Involved in play how? I want the AF on the end of the chances and involved very little in the link up play, the other 10 players are there to provide for him  

[jens_dewit]

On 18/08/2023 at 10:26, Johnny Ace said:

Involved in play how? I want the AF on the end of the chances and involved very little in the link up play, the other 10 players are there to provide for him  

In previous years I had the impression there was a whole world of distance between the AF and supporting wing players. But that might indeed be the wrong way of looking at it - although I'd only expect a poacher to be 100% goal-minded.

[Johnny Ace]

17 minutes ago, jens_dewit said:

In previous years I had the impression there was a whole world of distance between the AF and supporting wing players. But that might indeed be the wrong way of looking at it - although I'd only expect a poacher to be 100% goal-minded.

There's distance yes, you want some space between the lines else you may as well put them all on the same line ie upfront  MC's get forward and support when you attack, wide Support duties too so the AF/P isn't isolated 

Playing an IF(A) and AF(A)/P(A) can often lead to them being in very close to one another, which can be great in other areas of the pitch you're trying to overload but that's overloading an area of the pitch you want to avoid ie leading to congestion in the box plus it's two highly attacking players that given half a sight of goal, they're going to shoot. It's also why I'm not a huge fan of the CM(A)/MEZZ(A) and AF/P combo too. Then on top that, there's the defensive side of the game you have to bear in mind    

EG. In the OP's original setup, look at his right hand side. IF(A) RPM(S) (Erikson who's not known for his defensive work) WB(A) (AWB who is solid defensively but he has a lot of work to do to track back and defend)

[Gruggburger]

Hi guys 

 

I’ve been experimenting with diff styles and players (mainly trying to get youth players going)  still prefer working with tiki taka or gen press.

My first question is the wingback role. For a more attacking run is it worth having both as wingbacks on attack or support? Or have one wb or one fb? Is it a bad idea in a 433 to have a bwm? 

I get the odd bad run of form. What do in those circumstances? Go more defensive? Have different roles?