Frustrating with marking instructions

[kayyuenchinup]

I want to play with 3 at the back and my plan of marking would be below, I am blue defenders

Left,Middle, Right CD marking the AMR, ST, AML

1.Using player instructions mark specific position option - right CD on AML, middle CD on ST, left CD on AMR (Should I use mark specific position STL, ST, STR? Because that's where the AMR and AML come in)

2.  Not using mark specific player option because I don't want them to follow them all over the pitch

3. Team instruction - Tight Marking (not sure if I tick this option?) It makes me feel like they will be marking them tighter.  No closing down and tackle hard as I don't want them to leave space

5. Not using opposition instructions as I tried before , e.g. if put tight mark or press more on ST, three CD will go to mark or close down ST at once and leaving space for the AMR and AML

I am frustrated because I am not sure if I do it right because sometime below would happen

1.  The left and right CD stick to their own deep position and not too close with the AMR and AML

2.  Sometimes the right or left CD will ignore the instructions and move to the middle to mark the ST as well, leaving AML or AMR 

 

Please kindly advise as I have been trying many combinations and don't think it works the way I planned. 

I also want to know if one of the AMR, ST and AML plays well, what else should I add to reduce their threat

Team instructions or Player instructions or opposition instructions -

Mark tighter?

Trigger press more?

Tackle harder?

[kayyuenchinup]

Here is an example, I am Arsenal 

DCL Gabriel should be on Ricardo Pereira (MCL Xhaka instead) , CD White should be on Vardy (Correct) , DCR Saliba should be on Barnes (not close enough), Praet AMC should be marked by our MC (not happened)

 

Then AMR Ricardo Pereira made the pass to AML Barnes to score, DCL, DC, DCR  marking not work. 

I am not sure if its meant to happen because of Ricardo's speed and ability to pass the ball plus Barnes's speed, instead of my marking setting?  

[Poison]

Wbr/wbl marks the wingers and cbs just mark zonally, do you use wing backs?

[kayyuenchinup]

@Poisonthank you for your reply.  

I dont use WBR and WBL

I am Red, like a 3331 
DCR, DC, DCL
MCR, MC, MCL
AMR, AMC, AML
ST

Against Blue 4131

My marking plan (described in the first post)

DCL, DC, DCR marking the AMR, ST, AML

1.Using player instructions mark specific position option - DCR on AML, CD on ST, DCL on AMR (Should I use mark specific position STL, ST, STR? Because that's where the AMR and AML come in)

2.  Not using mark specific player option because I don't want them to follow them all over the pitch

3. Team instruction - Tight Marking (not sure if I tick this option?) It makes me feel like they will be marking them tighter.  No closing down and tackle hard as I don't want them to leave space

5. Not using opposition instructions as I tried before , e.g. if put tight mark or press more on ST, three CD will go to mark or close down ST at once and leaving space for the AMR and AML

[dazza11]

Without wishing to sound too critical I’d say that goal has identified all the weaknesses of your system perfectly. If I read your system correctly you’re playing 3 cb, and 3 midfielders in the normal midfield slot with no wide players until the AML/R area?

So no players in the fb or DM zone? In which case teams counter attacking you will have free reign to overload you and no amount of PI will negate that. 

Playing 3 atb with no support in the fb areas is always going to leave you horribly exposed, and you’ve had their right winger cross for the left winger to score. Their 4 attackers overloaded your 3 def perfectly esp in a counterattacking scenario as Periera is quick and would’ve had plenty of space to run into. Also you criticise Xhaka positioning but if he is your left mcl and Pereira started that run from deep I’d fully hope and expect Xhaka to be tracking him because he would engage him before your cb would. 

Guardiola has this system running well irl but he’s a tactical genius the game cannot replicate fully ( look at the amount of posts trying) . The success of that system is the intelligence of Rodri and Stones in their movement. Both at times play like a HB, Akanji the rcb goes out to engage the wide player and Stones will drop in the half space to provide cover whilst Rodri maintains shape to press when ball comes inside. 

It also might not just be your players, what are your TI in terms of def width, pressing etc? Screen shot of your tactic would help so can see the roles of the players as well. 

I would drop your wingers into the ML/MR slots to give them a better chance of giving you some defensive support, again looking at Man City, likes of Grealish does a huge amount of work tracking back on the flanks. 
The central MC I would go with HB. He naturally drops into the back 4 and will help encourage the wide cbs to nudge wider if they know they have more cover. You can still get that 3331 shape you are hoping for in attack by TI and PI without being so def exposed. 
Would be able to help more with a tactic screenshot to see TI/ any PI or OI

[kayyuenchinup]

@dazza11Thank you for your feedback.  That is exactly the useful feedback I wanted to receive.  

You are correct about the no FB and DM.  Since this is only a game, I want to try making a more creative tactics and strategic.  

Does the setting of PI Mark specific position / use of opposition instructions help defending and not concede goal like that? Or using both will just override the instructions?  

Here is the TI

Leicester play a vertical tiki-taka style, so I don't use counter press and not trigger press more as I don't want to lose space because of close down. 

I use tighter marking and force opposition inside to put them outside.  (Now think about it, tight mark might not be a good idea as the defender lost the speed as they are tight marking)

PI

DCR Saliba - mark specific position AML

DC White - mark specific position ST

DCL Gabriel - mark specific position AMR

CM Jorginho - more risky and direct pass + mark specific position AMC 

CMR Party - Roam

CML Xhaka - Get forward, Roam, more risky and direct pass + mark specific position MCR (Reason I said he should not be chasing Pereira as I set him PI mar specific position MCR which is Tielemans)

IFR Saka - Roam

AMC Odegaard - Forward run, move into channel, roam

IFL Martinelli - Roam

ST Jesus - Roam

No Opposition Instructions set

[dazza11]

I’m not in front of my pc at the moment so I’ll reply further in detail later.

My initial thought is… drop Jorginho into the  DM strata as a HB. 
drop odegaard into the central cm where Jorginho was. Have him as a cmA or ApA with some PI’s so he’ll still support the front 3. 

if you insist on keeping AML/R then make Xhaka and partey a car, or Xhaka a car and partey a MezS this will help with protection on the flanks. 
Personally I would have a higher def line and I don’t really understand the underlap function with no fbs or wbs 

Many more things I would suggest but see how you go with that. 

[kayyuenchinup]

@dazza11I tried your suggestion - Drop Jorginho into DM and Odegaard into CM, the back 3 CD are more solid but at the same time the attack not as smooth as having Odegaard as AMC

I then tried using my formation and marking plan and play again, I conceded a goal again with the similar pattern - DCL allowed Pereira to cross the ball, DC marking ST and DCR moved in the middle lead to their AML to score. 

However, the game went on and we created more threats on the front and sometimes forcing their CD lost the ball ( I have not choose counter press and trigger more press).  We created more shots and chances than them and equalised , the game ended with 1-1 which is not bad. 

I am thinking the way I conceded that goal might not only because my formation (No FB or DM), not because the mark specific position setting.  It might be because of the defender's attributes (Speed, concentration, positioning, etc) that lead to the goal.  However we did not concede 3 or 4 times like that in the game.  The game finished and actually DCR Saliba rating was 8.1 and DCL Gabriel rating was 7.0. 

Maybe with this formation, I would need to accept the risk and expect to concede goals like that.  

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, kayyuenchinup said:

@dazza11Thank you for your feedback.  That is exactly the useful feedback I wanted to receive.  

You are correct about the no FB and DM.  Since this is only a game, I want to try making a more creative tactics and strategic.  

Does the setting of PI Mark specific position / use of opposition instructions help defending and not concede goal like that? Or using both will just override the instructions?  

Here is the TI

Leicester play a vertical tiki-taka style, so I don't use counter press and not trigger press more as I don't want to lose space because of close down. 

I use tighter marking and force opposition inside to put them outside.  (Now think about it, tight mark might not be a good idea as the defender lost the speed as they are tight marking)

PI

DCR Saliba - mark specific position AML

DC White - mark specific position ST

DCL Gabriel - mark specific position AMR

CM Jorginho - more risky and direct pass + mark specific position AMC 

CMR Party - Roam

CML Xhaka - Get forward, Roam, more risky and direct pass + mark specific position MCR (Reason I said he should not be chasing Pereira as I set him PI mar specific position MCR which is Tielemans)

IFR Saka - Roam

AMC Odegaard - Forward run, move into channel, roam

IFL Martinelli - Roam

ST Jesus - Roam

No Opposition Instructions set

A holding midfielder will do a lot to help out. CM(s) can have it added to their PIS.

Your players will be overloaded in outside areas and with no DM you could have trouble with opposition AMC or runs from midfield. The (IF(a) do no defensive tracking back which will make your back 3 even more outnumbered. These overloads will cause all sorts of problems for a marking based system. 

 

Other big problem I'm seeing is that no one is really providing width to your attack. Even the WCB is on (d). A solution here would be to swap the WCB to (s) w/dribble more and your left sided midfielder to a MEZ. Alternatively, you could play around with having those outside two midfielders in Carrilero roles. Lots of variations on how you could make that work  

Edited April 10, 2023 by Cloud9

[kayyuenchinup]

@Cloud9Thank you for your useful feedback. That is something I didn't think about before.  

[kayyuenchinup]

@DarJthis is the post I refer to