Ready to quit....

[Smarfy]

The title says it all, I think I am done with this game once and for all, nothing I do works at all!  Players don't cross, they don't tackle, my superstar striker couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo....this is what i'm using and there are no player instructions at the moment, as someone who has played every version of this game since the early 90s it is now just ridiculous, it used to be enjoyable, not anymore. For the love of god, help.

[HUNT3R]

That's extremely attacking. How good is this St Pauli team? I see you're 10th, but where are you predicted to finish?

Thinking about my own tactic, I'm a top 3 team, but I am nowhere close to as extreme (especially defensively) as you are.

[Carambau]

Cant see that working with a club like St. Pauli. You gotta defend once in a while man. This is like swiss cheese in the center of the park!

Edited April 12, 2022 by Carambau

[Smarfy]

I'm predicted to finish a lot lower than 10th lol I have a decent team, and i'm tearing my hair out, and even if i try and play more defensive we still get torn to shreds....how would you change the midfield?

[fc.cadoni]

- Start with DL with WB Su.

- SK Su + CD De, but Play Out Of Defense without GK TI Distribution you will see that SK kick the ball long; trying to find TF (it's magnitude that role to everyone search for him, like DLP). Possession lost easily.

- Bring down your Defensive Line to Standard. CD De isn't the best to apply pressure, Mezzala At will care less about your pressing.

- You are trying to defend like zonal or man mark? Try remove tight marking team instruction, because AI easily escape your traps.

Edited April 12, 2022 by fc.cadoni

[Guerin]

Good to visualise how a shape changes with the roles and one thing that really helped me was to look at the player instructions of each role- knowing how players behave in possession really helps me to think about how to make the most of each role. 

Let's take your formation

Wingbacks stay wider and get forward more often- that's good for your strategy since you're relying on them to provide the width for what is otherwise a very narrow formation. 

Mezzela attack move into channels, roam and get forward more often (among other things) - Keep that in mind. In this case, as the Mez is in the right hand position they'll move into the right hand channel to attack. 

DLP support Holds Position, Takes Risks.- holding position is fine and they will be higher risk (and lower percentage) passes. Also with Playmaker roles they general follow where the ball is, meaning the hold position PI is more focused on without the ball- although probably will stay in the middle of the pitch mainly. 

BBM Roams- again roamers general move to where there is space in this case not so bad since your ADV fwd is going to create lots of space in front. 

Shadow Striker- Moves into channels, gets further fwd. - biggest problem in the current setup and one worth focusing on. 

So if a shadow striker excels by moving into channels it makes sense that you would want to open those channels to create the space for their movement.

Well, in this setup your right channel is clogged up by the Mezzala and the TF support. The former is moving forward into that space, while the latter is moving backward into that space. Your left channel is also clogged up because when your advanced forward plays on the shoulder they'll create space behind. But your BBM and shadow striker are both going to move into that space. So basically, the move into channels PI for the shadow striker is made redundant due to your setup. 

Defensively, both your wingbacks are going to be wide and push up rapidly to act like wingers in posssession. Both your wider midfielders are going to get forward due to get forward and Roaming PI's. Plus your DLP is going to join the attack. Essentially, your defending with just two outfield players. In real life, almost all teams, even hyper attacking teams like Liverpool, defend with at least three.

So how to remedy this. Bear in mind I've never used this formation. I would switch the DLP to DLPd to give you a defensive three and someone to recycle the possession. Mez attack WB support seems fine. On the otherside, a carrillelo is a better shout than BBM as they Stay wider giving your narrow mf better spread but they don't roam and generally defend better giving you some cover for the attacking wingback on that side. 

As stated before I don't see much reason for a shadow striker. So, I'd personally go for just a bog standard attacking midfielder on attack duty---he will act like a striker but, crucially, will move in a linear motion arriving into the box rather than exploring the channels. 

Another alternative might be to change the shadow striker to a AMs-- three attack duties total is conducive to more controlled possession imo. The more attacking duties = more direct football.

Anyway, final tip. Get rid of all the Team Instructions for now except for attacking and maybe setting up higher line and higher engagement. Team Instructions can just confuse things when making a tactic since you want to focus purely on balancing the setup of roles and duties. Once you've tinkered and you start to see things in the ME, i.e. players passing shorter, then add that PI. Just don't force it. Be aware as well that AdvFwd and TM generally force longer more risky passes not shorter ones.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Guerin

[Smarfy]

15 minutes ago, Guerin said:

Good to visualise how a shape changes with the roles and one thing that really helped me was to look at the player instructions of each role- knowing how players behave in possession really helps me to think about how to make the most of each role. 

Let's take your formation

Wingbacks stay wider and get forward more often- that's good for your strategy since you're relying on them to provide the width for what is otherwise a very narrow formation. 

Mezzela attack move into channels, roam and get forward more often (among other things) - Keep that in mind. In this case, as the Mez is in the right hand position they'll move into the right hand channel to attack. 

DLP support Holds Position, Takes Risks.- holding position is fine and they will be higher risk (and lower percentage) passes. Also with Playmaker roles they general follow where the ball is, meaning the hold position PI is more focused on without the ball- although probably will stay in the middle of the pitch mainly. 

BBM Roams- again roamers general move to where there is space in this case not so bad since your ADV fwd is going to create lots of space in front. 

Shadow Striker- Moves into channels, gets further fwd. - biggest problem in the current setup and one worth focusing on. 

So if a shadow striker excels by moving into channels it makes sense that you would want to open those channels to create the space for their movement.

Well, in this setup your right channel is clogged up by the Mezzala and the TF support. The former is moving forward into that space, while the latter is moving backward into that space. Your left channel is also clogged up because when your advanced forward plays on the shoulder they'll create space behind. But your BBM and shadow striker are both going to move into that space. So basically, the move into channels PI for the shadow striker is made redundant due to your setup. 

Defensively, both your wingbacks are going to be wide and push up rapidly to act like wingers in posssession. Both your wider midfielders are going to get forward due to get forward and Roaming PI's. Plus your DLP is going to join the attack. Essentially, your defending with just two outfield players. In real life, almost all teams, even hyper attacking teams like Liverpool, defend with at least three.

So how to remedy this. Bear in mind I've never used this formation. I would switch the DLP to DLPd to give you a defensive three and someone to recycle the possession. Mez attack WB support seems fine. On the otherside, a carrillelo is a better shout than BBM as they Stay wider giving your narrow mf better spread but they don't roam and generally defend better giving you some cover for the attacking wingback on that side. 

As stated before I don't see much reason for a shadow striker. So, I'd personally go for just a bog standard attacking midfielder on attack duty---he will act like a striker but, crucially, will move in a linear motion arriving into the box rather than exploring the channels. 

Another alternative might be to change the shadow striker to a AMs-- three attack duties total is conducive to more controlled possession imo. The more attacking duties = more direct football.

Anyway, final tip. Get rid of all the Team Instructions for now except for attacking and maybe setting up higher line and higher engagement. Team Instructions can just confuse things when making a tactic since you want to focus purely on balancing the setup of roles and duties. Once you've tinkered and you start to see things in the ME, i.e. players passing shorter, then add that PI. Just don't force it. Be aware as well that AdvFwd and TM generally force longer more risky passes not shorter ones.

 

 

Damn dude, that's a lot of feedback, I appreciate it....I have tried the carillero before and didn't really like it but i'm going to strip it all back to the bare bones and give it one more shot, how does this look?

[Guerin]

I'm not good enough at the game to just take a look and know. But, it does look like a much better foundation with the roles selected and also the simplification of TIs.

Watch the games and see what's working and what isn't. Maybe Mez will be better on support, or maybe am on support and mez on attack, it might work perfectly as it is right now, who knows!--- there are things you can only work out by testing and adjusting in the game. 

[Smarfy]

Yeah never mind, lost 4-0, 5-0 and 6-1, I officially quit.

[Guerin]

Ooof

[kalongtongan]

2 hours ago, Smarfy said:

 

I don't know about this formation and have never tried it, it's never even crossed my mind.
Maybe first you try to see the negatives of your tactics and try to understand. what i see is:
- goal conceded location
- long ranged shot
- opposition final third entries.
Top 2 is your big problem and it's in defense.
look at your tactics and improve from there.

[kalongtongan]

get one of your three midfielders to become a defensive midfielder, find your midfielder who has a defensive profile such as positioning, concentration, stamina, strength etc... and see what his best role is and trust him, my advice try DMd as a start.

if you stick to HDL then try tick the offside trap.

leave the other positions try to see how the results. is it necessary to change to another position? like your WB, MC's or AM

Edited April 12, 2022 by kalongtongan

[Deisler26]

I don't like that midfield at all.

You need to think about transitions. Let's say you lose possession high up the pitch. You've lost the MEZ and CAR and their entire counter faces....a DLP on Defend in the middle.

I would look at your centre of the three being a BWM on defend and a CM on Support on the left and a CM on Attack on the right. Because then you have less forward movement in the middle and the AM is still supplying the forward lines

[Smarfy]

Doesn't matter, I've given up, it's literally impossible to do anything on this game anymore. 

[Deisler26]

2 minutes ago, Smarfy said:

Doesn't matter, I've given up, it's literally impossible to do anything on this game anymore. 

It really isn't. I've taken a 3.Liga side to Europa League champions in 14 seasons. I use a HB and a SV in the DM strata, because it means there is enough balance in the side with attack and defence. 

[HUNT3R]

Frustration is getting the better of you. I would suggest taking a step back, calm down and slowly go through what it is you want to do. Think through how you've set up and if it makes sense. Then see if you can spot any issues during matches. Tweak to try and fix those issues.

If at any point you get stuck, open a new thread and explain the process (your thoughts, plan, what you've set up based on that plan, if you've encountered any issues etc) and, as you can see in the tactics forum, there are plenty of people who can and want to help.

I'm going to close this, but don't let it stop you from creating a new thread if you do get stuck and want advice.