Opinions and help on a 4231/424 with Man United

[B3nnet7]

Hi, just wanted to get some advice on this tactic. It's a 4231 but the idea is to create more of a 424 in attack so that Fernandes becomes not only a creative threat but also a goalscoring threat too! 

I've only played 2 league games but It seems to be working well and Fernandes has played well. However Rashford on the left has been my worst player in both games and pretty ineffective. Also the AF hasn't done too much either. 

Just wondering if there is anything I could tweak to get the best out of all the attacking players? 

Thanks 

[CARRERA]

I'm not completely into ManUs squad, but I remember both Rashford and Martial being rather physical, pacey strikers. If thats the case, i have to question, whether a gradual, more complex build up style, is well suited to them. At least thats what your instructions seem to intend. So check if your desired style of play does suit your players or how well it actually is represented by your tactical instructions.

However, to sort things out, the first thing i would do is either chaning roles betweend Neres and Rashford, or switch around positions of Martial and Fernandes, so that the IW is paired with the AM and the AF with the IF. Furthermore i would try out Fernandes in a aggressive playmaker role, like AP(a) or T to add more creativity to your frontline, but only if he is suited to those roles by his attributes.

[B3nnet7]

26 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

I'm not completely into ManUs squad, but I remember both Rashford and Martial being rather physical, pacey strikers. If thats the case, i have to question, whether a gradual, more complex build up style, is well suited to them. At least thats what your instructions seem to intend. So check if your desired style of play does suit your players or how well it actually is represented by your tactical instructions.

However, to sort things out, the first thing i would do is either chaning roles betweend Neres and Rashford, or switch around positions of Martial and Fernandes, so that the IW is paired with the AM and the AF with the IF. Furthermore i would try out Fernandes in a aggressive playmaker role, like AP(a) or T to add more creativity to your frontline, but only if he is suited to those roles by his attributes.

Thank you for your reply, tbh I do get what you're saying with the slow build up, my first choice up top would be Cavani but he is injured for two months so my only options up top are Martial or Greenwood really. But I'm keen on playing a slow build up and possession  game as I think the roles and players best suit that kind of play. 

Thank you I'll change Neres to IF and Rashford to IW and see how that goes  the reason haven't chosen Fernandes in the AP role is because I know shoot less often is hard-coded in to that role and I want to encourage him to shoot, also I don't think he is as well suited to a Treq as he is to AM from his attributes. However I have considered changing him to a SS role, do you think that could work? 

Edited June 4, 2021 by B3nnet7

[CARRERA]

33 minutes ago, B3nnet7 said:

haven't chosen Fernandes in the AP role is because I know shoot less often is hard-coded in to that role and I want to encourage him to shoot,

shoot less often is most likely related to shots from distance to encourage that player to consider different options like a pass for example. If you want fernandes to shoot from distance or just from outside the box, the AM(s) role might be best suited, because he will lurk around the edge of the box to receive cutback passes from your WB's or wide players in general. If you really want him to act as one of your main goalscoring threats, the SS role might indeed be your best call, so give it a try.

However, observe closely if the space your team creates in front of the other teams defense is exploited by someone effectively. If thats not the case, you might think about making one of the wide players, an wide AP. The usage of space is key when looking for your desired style of play, especially the space naturally exposed by the others team defensive formation, as well as that your team creates from stretching the play (AF excels on that)

Edited June 4, 2021 by CARRERA

[B3nnet7]

39 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

shoot less often is most likely related to shots from distance to encourage that player to consider different options like a pass for example. If you want fernandes to shoot from distance or just from outside the box, the AM(s) role might be best suited, because he will lurk around the edge of the box to receive cutback passes from your WB's or wide players in general. If you really want him to act as one of your main goalscoring threats, the SS role might indeed be your best call, so give it a try.

However, observe closely if the space your team creates in front of the other teams defense is exploited by someone effectively. If thats not the case, you might think about making one of the wide players, an wide AP. The usage of space is key when looking for your desired style of play, especially the space naturally exposed by the others team defensive formation, as well as that your team creates from stretching the play (AF excels on that)

Yeah I'd prefer to keep the option of him shooting from distance as he has attributes that suit it and it's a big strength of his. 

That's a really good point actually, I will definitely need to keep an eye on how well the space in front of the defence is exploited If I do switch to SS. A wide AP was something I did think about but I don't really have the players for that currently, I will definitely try a couple things and see how it goes 

[dactz]

I think you can be more aggresive with Rashford he's backed up by a DLP on defend and a WB on support so you can afford him on attack. Don't make him an IW his crossing isn't good enough

I would look at a different role for your CMs Pogba has 11 for work rate BBM is a role that really requires much more and Fred has 11 Vision and 14 in Passing which isn't good enough to be the main playmaker in a title challenging team so at the very least swap them if not reconsider their roles.

I would also switch the sides of Fernandes and Martial. This will mainly help Martial as your playing him as a AF so he will drift into the channel mainly on the right when he tries to cut back in he will be on his weaker foot so put him on the other side and he will mainly drift into the left channel and cut in on his right foot. This has another advantage as it will hopefully drag a CB with him opening up more room for Rashford 

Edited June 4, 2021 by dactz
readability

[Experienced Defender]

Apart from your setup of roles and duties, which needs a couple of tweaks IMHO, the key problem here is that you are trying to play a patient possession style of football with a team that is not really suited to such playstyle. 

[B3nnet7]

8 hours ago, dactz said:

I think you can be more aggresive with Rashford he's backed up by a DLP on defend and a WB on support so you can afford him on attack. Don't make him an IW his crossing isn't good enough

I would look at a different role for your CMs Pogba has 11 for work rate BBM is a role that really requires much more and Fred has 11 Vision and 14 in Passing which isn't good enough to be the main playmaker in a title challenging team so at the very least swap them if not reconsider their roles.

I would also switch the sides of Fernandes and Martial. This will mainly help Martial as your playing him as a AF so he will drift into the channel mainly on the right when he tries to cut back in he will be on his weaker foot so put him on the other side and he will mainly drift into the left channel and cut in on his right foot. This has another advantage as it will hopefully drag a CB with him opening up more room for Rashford 

Thank you for your reply, tbh I thought that too, his favoured role is IW but then his crossing isn't good so that's why I went for IF. 

The problem I have is that Pogba's traits don't really allow him to play DLP either as he has traits such as "gets into opposition area" which contradict the role. Tbh I think until I can buy some of my own players and have a proper influence on the team I have it is going to be difficult as United's players dont work together all that well overall. 

That's good advice thank you, I have now just put Fernandes central AMs and Martial central too cause Fernandes wasn't really getting in the box to score anyway on attack duty and all his goals have been from free kicks, penalties or outside the box. I definitely need to have a play around with the roles

[B3nnet7]

10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Apart from your setup of roles and duties, which needs a couple of tweaks IMHO, the key problem here is that you are trying to play a patient possession style of football with a team that is not really suited to such playstyle. 

Thank you for your advice, I've just always been a fan of possession football that's all, any suggestions on what instructions to use? Maybe higher tempo, positive mentality, higher LOE and take off work ball in to the box? 

Edited June 5, 2021 by B3nnet7

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, B3nnet7 said:

any suggestions on what instructions to use? Maybe higher tempo, positive mentality, higher LOE and take off work ball in to the box? 

I would definitely remove work ball into box and lower tempo (would leave it on default). But roles and duties are the most important part of any tactic, so I would look to sort them out first before adjusting instructions.